ETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7 Posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3530 times:
In the old days, Pan Am and TWA (and maybe others) had short haul aircraft flying within Europe and to the middle east... What routes were performed by these airlines? Did they all have 5th freedom rights or were they simply feeder flights to pax continuing on to the US? What 'hubs' did they have?
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 69
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3415 times:
Pan Am had several routes within Germany to and from Berlin, because German airlines were not allowed to fly there - this lasted until German reunification, when routes to Berlin were taken over by German airlines.
Actually, Delta also had some 727s stationed here in Frankfurt and used them on European services... this, too, was axed a few years back when Delta introduced nonstop flights to some of those destinations and cut others.
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3102 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3319 times:
Im October 1989 I was at Dubrovnik airport in Yugoslavia as it was then, awaiting my flight back to LTN as had been on a package holiday with my parents and remember seeing a Pan-Am 727-200 land.
We was all trying to workout what that was doing at the airport and couldn't imagine that flying in from America. Still don't know to this day, maybe it was as described above or leased to JAT who at the time had 727's as the mainstay of their fleet.
Aa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3177 times:
TWA had 727-100's based in TXL(Berlin Tegel). They flew at various times to IST, STR(Stuttgart?), MUC, CDG, FCO, ATH, CAI and I think LHR for awhile. I'm sure i missed something. We also had crews based in CDG and FRA. In the 60's, we even had crews based in CAI. I've heard that was a really sweet deal.
TWA also "hubbed" out of CDG for awhile. There were several tag flights that went to TLV, CAI, ATH, GVA, ZRH and MUC(I believe). It would be normal at CDG to see our three jetways with two 747's and a L1011 with two L1011's, two 767's and a 727 or two out on the hardstand. Good times.
The TXL crews also flew the FRA-Berlin shuttle. I don't know how it worked to get the planes to the other destinations. I guess they went to FRA and then fanned out.TC
Antonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3134 times:
"The TXL crews also flew the FRA-Berlin shuttle. I don't know how it worked to get the planes to the other destinations. I guess they went to FRA and then fanned out.TC"
you seem to have it mixed up Aa717driver
I used to work for PanAm at FRA the the eighties
The berlin flights were mostly IGS = Internal German Services. This all started as an end of the war agreement in that german airlines were not allowed to fly to berlin. Both BA and PA had IGS services
Panam few TXL to FRA/STR/MUC and a few others, mainly in southern germany, BA IGS services were mainly in north germany. As soon as the wall came down, PA were suffering badly financially and sold their IGS unit to Lufthansa.The PA IGS was almost a german airline, german F/a's but american flight crew.
The other 727's did connecting flights to and from FRA. They flew to WAW KRK BDV PRG BUD OTP ATH ARN HEL and quite a few more destinations. These had nothing to do with IGS. There was a F/A base in WAW which covered most of the east european diestinations but the ATH ARN and HEL flights were operated by american F/A's who had arrived ex usa on the 747's. There were also connecting flights to BOM DEL which were crewed (F/A's) by BOM based F/A's and the odd 727/737/A300/A310 would arrive in FRA ex LHR crewed by british F/A's
It was quite a setup and a big operation in those days