KLM Royal Dutch Airlines has signed the contract with Airbus for the purchase of six A330-200s and further 18 purchase-rights of this type herewith formalizing an earlier commitment. Deliveries for the aircraft are scheduled to begin in April 2005. In KLM’s layout the aircraft will seat around 250 passengers in a comfortable two-class-cabin. The engine selection has yet to be made.
MauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6867 times:
the reason KLM didn't bought an Airbus after the A310's is that they prefered the Boeing products 737NG the 747-400 didn't had a competitor from airbus, MD-11 for long range (A340-200 didn't had what KLM wanted) and 767 for A310 replacement, so there weren't any markets except for the 737NG market where KLM could choose Airbus.... so nothing about that they dislike them.
the 6 A330-200;s will arive in August , October , December 2005 and the last 3 in 2006, so its a very slow process... A330 is supposed to be the replacement of the 12 767-300ER's and with a possible combi of 777/A330 will replace the last 6 767's
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6722 times:
Over the years, KLM worked much more closely with McDonnell Douglas (jet airliners - DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11) and then Boeing. Until now, the only Airbus airliner that KLM has flown is the A310-200 for which KLM was one of the launch customers. KLM did not have a great experience with the A310, nothing wrong with the aircaft (aside from a few typical introduction problems), the problem was that KLM could not use the A310-200 effectively on its route system. Flying 200 pax aircraft on the intra-European routes that the type was designed for did not work out as planned (pax want frequency and beng that AMS is a huge connection hub, less departures with big aircraft did not work) and since the A310-200 was a bit short in range for transatlantic operations, KLM ended up using the A310s on routes to the mideast, the gulf and some African destinations (some of these routes were also a bit of a strech for the type)......KLM phased out the A310-200s in favor of the 763ERs which offered more range, more passenger capacity. Note that KLM considers the 763s a compromise aircraft, since although its very versatile, it does not have the cargo capacity that KLM is looking for.
KLM has ordered the A332, 6 firm plus lots of options. KLM's exact fleet planning is still not clear, the 777s and A332s will over time replace both the 763 and MD11 fleets......but not enough aircraft are on firm order to accomplish that and KLM is interested in more 777s. A lot depends on what AF does with KL over the long term: first we must see how many long aircraft KL really needs as routes are rationalized and the AF and KL networks coordinated if not combined.
Kl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5065 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6699 times:
''' A lot depends on what AF does with KL over the long term: first we must see how many long aircraft KL really needs as routes are rationalized and the AF and KL networks coordinated if not combined.'''
Sorry, slightly off-topic:
What routes do you think can come to AMS, or leave for CDG?
There should be some logic in that.
( Being it a Sunday today I hope Jwenting is visiting his family.... )
Besides, If a KL777 goes tech, is it possible to 'borrow' an AF plane? I recall that MP and KL sometimes uses eachother planes. In that case we might see An AF340/330 at AMS incase they also don't have a spare 777.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6672 times:
Hey Kl911....regarding routes, its already happening, AF will fly to Caracas and KL will drop service there, and KL will fly to Jarkarta, with AF dropping service. In the future, I would imagine that KL and AF will coodinate on routes to certain cities in Africa and South America......duplication of services in some cases will be eliminated. Its too soon too tell what will happen, a lot depends on if worldwide traffic continues to increase and how the yeilds are system wide.
Re an AF plane subbing for a KL airliner - why not? I can surely see that happening in the future, and AF and KL using or leasing eachother's aircraft for certain routes or to adjust capacity during certain times of the year.
Lj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4327 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6428 times:
Dutchjet is not exactly right The A310 didn't exactly worked out well. However this was not the inefficient flying of the A310 but basically it was the result of a strategy change (which made them inefficient). At first KLM's strategy was to serve Europe with a mixture of large and small aircraft like they did in the DC-8 / DC-9 years. However later on KLM opted for high frequency instead of large aircraft (flying 4 B737s to MAD is a little bit more customer friendly then only 2 A310s). However, the A310s were a blessing as it meant that KLM could retain its Middle East schedule while serving the Far east nonstop (during the first Gulf war KLM started to fly nonstop to BKK etc) Only it wasn't ideal and therefore it was suddenly replaced by the leased B767s. However the main reason why KLM wanted the B767 was again a change of strategy (this time a change in its long haul strategy).
BTW at the time had to decide to purchase the A310 the B767 was also an option. However Boeing couldn't deliver it in time hence the reason why they opted for the A310-200
What routes do you think can come to AMS, or leave for CDG?
KLM will stop flying to Doula and leave the destination to AF as of winter schedule.
Regarding the A330 routes. Strong rumours that Quito and Guayaquil will become A330 destinations (without a stop in Bonaire). However, given the fact that the MD-11 is a very suitable aircraft for this route I doubt it will be the first one
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9409 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6331 times:
Interesting topic. I also wonder which routes will see KL 332 service. I was also thinking of the flights operated to Quito and Guayaquil as well as Lima nonstop. I would also use the 332 on the Curaçao and Aruba flights during the low season. In my opinion the 332 would be ideal for this route during the low season. It was also mentioned in the local newspaper in Curaçao (Amigoe) that KLM might use the 777 nonstop to Quito, Guayaquil and Lima, making the current Bonaire hub redundant. Any news on this?
AirKas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3913 posts, RR: 56 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6134 times:
I don't think KLM will drop Bonaire. The airport there is undergoing some major changes (They built catering buildings, built a large fuel depot, extended the runway with 300m, built a whole new departure terminal (which is very beautiful, I've been in it this year)).
And since KLM is the biggest and most frequent visitor there, I doubt they would do all that, when they could be losing the position as a stop between Lima/Guayaquil/Quito.
But since I'm am a frequent visitor in the caribbean (especially Bonaire), I would love to see the A332 there.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
Dose anyone think KLM will use the 332 on AMS-MSP?
While anything is possible and the KL A332s could be assigned to the AMS-MSP route, I do not think its likely. NW seems to be flying most of the routes out of AMS to their hubs in DTW, MSP and MEM, plus KL/NW move a lot of passengers between AMS and the NW hubs such as MSP......MSP-AMS will eventually get NW A333 service, and if KL was to operate on of the flights between those two cities, I would think an MD11 would operate the route.....or maybe a 777.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9409 posts, RR: 11 Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5976 times:
How is the load factor between AMS/BON and UIO/GYE/LIM? Is demand that much to justify these services? I never understood why KL operated between these countries as demand always seemed poor between these cities, except for the summer season. It wouldn't surprise me that the number of people flying between AMS and UIO/GYE/LIM wouldn't be that substantial. My only question is if the BON stop (or even the CUR stop in the past) between AMS and UIO/GYE/LIM is really that necessary. How are the load factors?
I didn't mean for KL to stop flying to BON all together. The AMS-BON flights are lucrative but I was only wondering about the UIO/GYE/LIM flights. Now that KL has or is investing in BON airport facilities doesn't mean they have to continue all flights. The expansion made is already very useful for the nonstop AMS flights.
I also wouldn't mind seeing KL's 332 flying to BON or CUR/AUA. The 332 will be wearing one of the most beautiful liveries when wearing the KL new livery
Horus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5966 times:
Dutchjet, According to Flight International the A332s (in most cases) will replace the routes that are currently flown by the 763s, as well as having the 777s replacing the the routes currently flown by MD-11s.
AirKas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3913 posts, RR: 56 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5835 times:
I don't know numbers for the loadfactors. But it looks to me like the seats that are being left empty between BON and UIO/GYE/LIM (from the passengers that get out on BON), won't be filled again. So the current MD-11 will have empty seats on the flight down south.
However, on the way back some South-American people will get out on Bonaire (probably not all that much either), but for sure it's going to fly BON-AMS fully loaded.
Now that KL has or is investing in BON airport facilities doesn't mean they have to continue all flights. The expansion made is already very useful for the nonstop AMS flights.
I don't know if KLM is sharing some costs with the island.And I hope the new features will bring more airlines and more different aircraft to Bonaire, with later on (they haven't yet begun building the cargo terminal) even bring cargo planes to BON.
The 332 will be wearing one of the most beautiful liveries when wearing
the KL new livery.
I couldn't agree more.
And I also wouldn't mind seeing 777's at BON.
25 ACES320: Some years back KL operated the BOG - AMS route. I do not know what the underlying strategy was for South America but operating to Quito and Lima alon
26 A388: I also don't know about BOG or Colombia, but the UIO/GYE/LIM flights still puzzle me, because KL has been operating those flights for a long time now.
27 Kevin752: I never knew that KL ever opperated any Airbus planes. They actually looked nice in a A310. I will be sad to see their livery dissappear soon. Well t
28 MauriceB: I don't think KLM will drop Bonaire. The airport there is undergoing some major changes (They built catering buildings, built a large fuel depot, exte
29 A388: I agree with you MauriceB, The investment KL made in the BON aiport facilities isn't that much (looking at how big KL is). The word "hub" is very misl
30 AirKas1: owh and about the new departure building: its stunning isnt it with only 1 sigaret and 1 alcohol shop :-P (iv been there too this year) Yes, but it's
31 Lj: I also don't know about BOG or Colombia, but the UIO/GYE/LIM flights still puzzle me, because KL has been operating those flights for a long time now.
32 Keesje: Other reason to replace the 767 is the increased cargo capasity. LD2´s make it fully compatible with the other widebodies. Range/crew wise the A330 a
33 Dakota: Hi, I flew AMS-GYE in may, and actually only a few people did leave the plane in BON. Furthermore: Ecuador is a very touristic destination, also a lot
34 Kl911: Yes, I always flew the 8.25 767 to LHR every Monday morning, what will replace this 767 when they are gone? Will they use a 330 which is not needed fo
35 Dakota: Question: Is there currently a European airline using an aircraft as large as the A330 on inter-European flights, except KLM on AMS-LHR with the 767?