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Singapore Airlines Opts 773ER,delay 7E7 Decision  
User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12365 times:

http://ifdg.net/forum/index.php?s=5291597884c6115ddaaf7b2956e90d58&showtopic=3792


Here is the interesting link.

Looks like they are getting 18 773ERs, that is great news . Airbus is offering the A350 to challenge with Boeing's 7E7. More info in this article.


Airliners is the wings of my life.
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12089 times:

I find it a bit suspicious that they are the only ones who have reported it.

Is the possible-A350 the 330-lite?

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12088 times:

This was rather expected... surprised they've yet to tack the inevitable 772LR portion onto it.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

I really like that cute little foot-in-mouth simely that forum has... prehaps we should adopt it  Big grin

Anywho.. I find the idea of Airbus buying back portions of the SQ 777-200ER fleet a tad ironic, looks like Leahy took some notes from the A343 fiasco. Then again, there is no way in hell SQ will part with the 50+ 777s they now have.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

I find there to be zero credibility in this article's headline. It even goes so far to say that the deal is being delayed by a 346 counterproposal from Airbus.

It doesn't confirm anything, it just repeats facts that we all know.

N


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11820 times:

From what I know, it has been confirmed by Flight International...

[Edited 2004-08-24 04:22:20]

User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1896 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11774 times:

Hmmm... let's see... Singapore = a happy camper with A310-300 for their regional routes throughout Asia. I believe they kept them in line for what? 15+ years? Making it one of the longest lasting types in their fleet.

I won't be surprised by Singapore going with 7E7. But don't rule A350 out yet. We'll have to wait until next year with the decision...



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

From what I know, it has been confirmed by Flight International...
Guy Norris, one of the authors of the linked report, is an editor of "Flight International".  Big grin

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8329 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11606 times:

OK, I give up. What is a A350? Stretched 320? Shrunk 340? 330 with a new skin & modified 7E7 engines? Is there an artist sketch or is this just a dream in A's mind? Nothing shows up on airbus.com.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

OK, I give up. What is a A350? Stretched 320? Shrunk 340? 330 with a new skin & modified 7E7 engines? Is there an artist sketch or is this just a dream in A's mind? Nothing shows up on airbus.com

As it is described in the article, it would feature an A330-200 fuselage at lower gross weights with wing modifications and newer engines. I see a problem in using the existing A332 fuselage, you end up with huge big airplane. The 7E7-3 is well sized for regional widebody flights, while the "A350" would hold a precarious niche between the 7E7-3 and A330/777-200A.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9189 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

Seems that they are not replacing the entire B 747-400 fleet for now and most of them will stay for a while.

The B 7E7 makes more sense I think.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4113 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11476 times:

Has this so-called "A350" even been formally announced by Airbus? I find this whole thing hard to believe....even a new name doesn't change the fact that it's just another A330.

User currently offline777MAS From Malaysia, joined Sep 2003, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10529 times:

OK, I give up. What is a A350? Stretched 320? Shrunk 340? 330 with a new skin & modified 7E7 engines?

You can rule it out as a variant of the A320 - ever since SQ got rid of their B757s (after only a few years' service!!), they've never "downgraded" their product offering to narrow body!!!


User currently offlineLHR27C From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10444 times:

The "A350" - and the first time I have heard it referred to as that - has certainly not been formally announced, its main purpose is to compete with the 7E7 in much the same way that Boeing has shown renewed interest in a 747X following the A380's enthusiastic response. But I agree if the A350 were to be successful it would need some large fuselage modifications to put it in the 7E7 size market.


Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

This is also confirmed in the most recent Flight International.

The only reason Singapore is waiting on the 7E7 is to get better pricing. There is no way that Airbus can achieve the same performance as the 7E7 and deliver before 2008.

Smart, if you ask me... make Boeing sweat a bit.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10247 times:

BoeingBus

Whatever , that is a typical answer from a Boeing fan. This kind of comment is definately not needed in this post. Please guys, no A vs B war .

Back to the topic, There is still a possibility that SQ will order the 7E7, they havent ruled out the aircraft yet but don't be surprised if they get the A350.



Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5090 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10140 times:

Is it official that SIA will order the 777-300ER?


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5218 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10111 times:

BoeingBus,

'''There is no way that Airbus can achieve the same performance as the 7E7 and deliver before 2008.'''

The 7E7 has never flown.......... How can you compare performance if it only excists on paper? Maybe you can show us some proof?

KL911


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10057 times:

I see a problem in using the existing A332 fuselage, you end up with huge big airplane. The 7E7-3 is well sized for regional widebody flights
Ain´t the 7e7 a little wider then the 330 ?

One of A330´s biggest strengths; it´s huge wings are limiting it in regional services. On a "350" Expect a significant shorter wing probably with big winglets..

The article says the 773ER selection came in large because a recent (July) enhancement package that makes it more competitive with the 346HGW. Anybody why/what improvements were needed ?

BTW
No self´glossing, but:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/989450
(Dec 2002 ..)


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9370 times:

Kl911,

I was simply illustrating the point that Airbus doesnt have the time it needs to properly compete and match the performance benchmarks that is currently targeted by the 7E7. It's funny the Airbus partisan folks simplify what Boeing is actually doing with the 7E7.

According to the article, it states that Airbus will have the A350 on or before 2008.

With this little development and research time all Airbus can do is come up with a lighter version of the A332, which achieves some effieciency. But it's not going to be to the level of the 7E7 as it weighs much less due to the composite structure, which the A350 will never have.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9331 times:

Is it official that SIA will order the 777-300ER?
Nothing is official. That article says that an announcement is due soon, but I am still pretty skeptical of the article.

The 7E7 has never flown.......... How can you compare performance if it only excists on paper? Maybe you can show us some proof?
Has the "A350" flown?  Wink/being sarcastic

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2600 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9287 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It hasn't been confirmed by Flight International the scan in the original post is the Flight International article, which appeared in yesterday's issue! As far as I'm aware this is the only recent published information on the subject - not 2 independent sources as some seem to think.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9189 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9202 times:

Seems that a lot of their B 747-400s will stay for now. When it comes to 100% replacement I hope they will opt for some B 747 Advanced, let's say 25-30. 18 is not enough for sure.

Maybe more A 380......

So what's up with the B 777-200LR decision? No news?


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9172 times:

That SIA will end up with some goddamn 773ERs seems inevitable for almost everyone. What else do they have to choose from to replace their first batch of 744s at the moment? New 744s? too old for a technical forerunner as SIA. A340-600s? Seems SIA tends towards Boeing more.
But I still hope Boeing can convince SIA to order the 747 Advanced next year and the possible 773ER becomes a interim solution only. I wouldn´t miss anything if FRA would never have 773ER traffic.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9903 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9126 times:

I also don't understand it when people say that the A330 has a fuselage that's too large. Won't the 7E7 be competing in the same category as the A330, thereby having a (almost) similar width or size as the fuselage of the A330 and carrying almost the same number of passenger (same length as the A330)? I think the main problem facing Airbus is the amount of composite materials used in the 7E7, which Airbus can't offer at the moment. Airbus will have a greater chance in competing against the 7E7 if they also develop an aircraft with about the same amount of composites and other material (aluminum etc.) as the 7E7 will have. Airbus claims the technology is not advanced enough to use so much composites in an aircraft, while Boeing thinks it is. This is why I like the battle between Boeing and Airbus. It's always interesting to see how they fight it out. Both Boeing and Airbus offer very good aircraft in my opinion.

A388  Wink/being sarcastic


25 Gigneil : I don't understand it either. The A330 and the A300/310 feature the same 222in fuselage width. N
26 United Airline : Na, I am sure they will place a large order if Boeing makes one -Desmond
27 Ual747-600 : I still can't see A350 as being viable for Singapore. It's still going to weigh more and won't have the cabin benefits (higher humidity/lower cabin al
28 ConcordeBoy : The article says the 773ER selection came in large because a recent (July) enhancement package that makes it more competitive with the 346HGW. There r
29 Kaitak : I think that if they are to order anything, it will be the 7E7, but the real reason for the delay is probably not the need to evaluate another aircraf
30 Post contains images Solnabo : IMO this is the swansong for the entire SQ 747 fleet Keeping my fingers crossed for A350! *whatever that craft gonna look like* My 0,02 Micke//SE
31 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : IMO this is the swansong for the entire SQ 747 fleet here's hoping
32 SunriseValley : No doubt they will convert these 18 as firm orders from 44 options that they hold on the 777 type. It would seem that the -300ER could fit their futur
33 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Won't the 7E7 be competing in the same category as the A330, thereby having a (almost) similar width or size as the fuselage of the A330 and carrying
34 SunriseValley : If you go into Google and do a search on "Singapore Airlines" . There is a link to a Seattle Times article on the subject.
35 United Airline : Interestingly they still hold 6 B 747-400 options. The entire B 747 fleet is going no where. Just some of the oldest ones are leaving.....
36 9V-SVA : The six B744 options are for the B747-400F version. If the announcment is true, it'd be good to see SQ go for fleet commonality over engine commonalit
37 United Airline : B747-400 (MEGATOP) Engine Type: PW4056 In Fleet: 29 On Firm Order: - On option: 6 Guess its for pax! Coz they are talking about the pax fleet in the w
38 United Airline : SQ goes for whatever that is better for them
39 Post contains links and images SafetyDude : Here is the latest: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aBaDHKmjzrug&refer=us "Boeing Co., the world's second-largest commercial-air
40 Post contains links SafetyDude : Interestingly they still hold 6 B 747-400 options. As mentioned, they are for the freighter version. In this press release, http://www.boeing.com/news
41 United Airline : The fleet info was talking about passenger aircraft. Thought those 6 B 747F orders are firm orders. So i guess those 6 are pax B 747-400s. Doesn't mea
42 Hamlet69 : ". . .surprised they've yet to tack the inevitable 772LR portion onto it." I don't believe that will come immediately. Possible, but unlikely. It's mo
43 Post contains images AvObserver : Solnabo: "IMO this is the swansong for the entire SQ 747 fleet" ConcordeBoy: "here's hoping!" A rare moment indeed when Michael and Fred see eye to ey
44 United Airline : Not sure about UA's options. Does it make any difference? I mean keeping an option or cancelling it. By the end of the decade? Maybe a bit too early t
45 Post contains images Singapore_Air : SIA TO BUY BOEING 777-300ER AIRCRAFT Singapore Airlines (SIA) has signed a letter of intent to purchase up to thirty-one (31) Boeing B777-300ER (Exte
46 PANAM_DC10 : No 7E7 either according to SIA. From Bloomberg. By Beth Jinks Aug. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Singapore Airlines Ltd., Asia's fourth-largest carrier, said it h
47 United Airline : Nothing for the B 777-200LR....... 18 B 777-300ERs only. This is to replace the oldest B 747-400s. Guess there will be more orders coming one day. Not
48 SafetyDude : If there isn't any further sale of the B 747-400, there will be 20-22 left after everything is completed, like the sale of 8 B 747-400s to KA and CX.
49 United Airline : No 1 is probably JAL. No 2 ANA. What about no 3? I mean the 3rd largest carrier in Asia. As mentioned in the article, SIA is the 4th largest carrier i
50 Ken777 : For me the interesting plane to watch is the 747ADV. There is nothing else in that size slot, just as there is nothing else in the 380 size slot. A co
51 Post contains images SafetyDude : No 1 is probably JAL. No 2 ANA. What about no 3? I mean the 3rd largest carrier in Asia. CX, perhaps? On a side note, Singapore Airlines is the larges
52 United Airline : Is CX bigger than SQ? Not sure about that. Don't think so. I am sure Korean is not as big as SQ. Then who is number 3?
53 SafetyDude : I remember an article around January in "Airliner World" that listed the top Asian airlines, but I no longer have the issue. After a lot of searching,
54 Iowa744fan : Safetydude, It also depends upon what they are using for measuring the largest. My guess from the posts is that it is referring to passenger numbers,
55 Keesje : As for the 350, what is Airbus gong to do? Pull their top engineers from the 380 program, where their talents are critical, to throw together somethin
56 DfwRevolution : Yes, lets hope the challenged Airbus won´t get laughed at by the airlines after they throwed something together that doesn´t have a chance against i
57 B2707SST : As of April 30th, Airbus had a backlog of 1,652 planes and Boeing had a backlog of 1,562 aircraft. Boeing's 62 7E7 orders, which were just recently ad
58 United Airline : Malaysia Airlines is Southeast Asia's largest airline? NO WAY! I am sure Singapore Airlines is bigger BY FAR! So what were they talking about? In term
59 Keesje : Airbus has double the backlog because they string deliveries out over a much greater time span than Boeing does. Lets not forget Boeings hope of the f
60 MY7E7 : Boeing, Airbus.. Airbus, Boeing, Airbus.. Airbus.. Boeing.. Boeing... more Boeing, more Airbus, Airbus to the left, Boeing to the right, all that Airb
61 SafetyDude : Malaysia Airlines is Southeast Asia's largest airline? NO WAY! I am sure Singapore Airlines is bigger BY FAR! So what were they talking about? In term
62 United Airline : But I remember Singapore Airlines is bigger. Is Singapore part of SE Asia?
63 Gigneil : Re-read the reply: "Malaysia is southeast Asia's largest airline". No, no they're not. Not even close. N
64 United Airline : Maybe in terms of passenger numbers but DEFINITELY not in terms of RPKs, RPMs, assets etc etc
65 Iowa744fan : With regards to the backorder values of each company (Airbus and Boeing), does anyone know if those values are based upon the list prices? If so, both
66 Chrisrad : So in terms of fleet numbers MH is larger than SQ Malaysia Airlines' aircraft fleet as at July 30, 2004:100 passenger aircraft As at 1 August 2004, SI
67 SafetyDude : Everything that I can find - including "Fortune" as a source - indicates that Malaysia is Southeast Asia's largest airline, although SQ is Asia's larg
68 Chrisrad : SafteyDude, if they use fleet numbers as a guide then MH is larger than SQ
69 United Airline : Not in terms of RPKs or RPMs for sure which are both common indicators of airline sizes. But a number of these aircraft are B 737s and regional jets.
70 Arkhem : BA (Boeing) is up 1.59 to 52.50 on the "news" that Singapore is ordering 18 773ER.
71 Ken777 : I haven't lost touch with reality as far as I know - but my wife might have a different opinion on that. For me, both A & B (and any other company) ha
72 Post contains images KEESJE : I haven't lost touch with reality as far as I know - but my wife might have a different opinion on that. excuse me for that one, got carried away .. A
73 Chrisrad : Call me ignorant, but isn't most of the development on th A380 finished, seeing that the first one has almost been built. Sure there is testing and th
74 PVD757 : So you would like to have the engineers drop everything and start something else? What would happen, god forbid, if the A380 drops out of the sky duri
75 Rabenschlag : In my eyes, the "delayed" purchase of 7e7's by SQ is a slap in the face of the 7e7 program. Even if they wish to dump the price, it gives a bad image
76 United Airline : It is possible to check whether or not Airbus is making a profit or not. No data is available. Boeing is making a profit that's for sure. And from wha
77 ConcordeBoy : . Even if they wish to dump the price, it gives a bad image to the program. Hhistory tells a completely different story: remember the 777's 1st year o
78 KFly : Will SQ put the First Class sleeper suite on the 773ER? Or will they make it a 2 class configuration - Business (Raffles) and Economy or maybe even Bu
79 United Airline : At the moment its still an LOI which is yet to be finalized. The B 777-300ER will replace the oldest B 747-400s, not the entire fleet for a while. How
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