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CEO: Alitalia Has About 20 Days Left To Survive  
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Posted (9 years 8 months ago) and read 7169 times:

Just heard this on the radio: according to it's President, Alitalia has about 20 days left to find a solution to it's financial crisis - if a solution is not found until 15 September, they would be forced into involuntary administration.

During the summer months, Alitalia had about 17 million euros less revenues than expected.

I haven't found any links in English yet - here's a report in German:
http://www.welt.de/data/2004/08/24/323611.html



Smile - it confuses people!
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months ago) and read 7016 times:

I genuinely hope Alitalia make it through this 'rough patch'.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineN774UA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months ago) and read 6889 times:

I hope they keep on flying. I am flying with them in september.

N774UA



...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2152 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months ago) and read 6853 times:

Oh god, please let's not have another Swissair-like debacle with a great name going under...

User currently offlineThomasCook From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 791 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6813 times:

Hi,

This is awful news. I hope for the sake of Alitalia and all their employees that a solution can be found. Good luck to them!

Regards
ThomasCook



A380 Crew
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1050 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

Sounds odd to me... I'd reckon that payments were due at the end of a month...??

Probably just a despicable try to put more pressure on the unions to accept the slashing of a few thousand jobs.
And another proof that the least we Europeans need is a (so called) "consolidated air market".
Let's hope things will improve when Mrs. de Palacio leaves office next month. (unlikely  Sad )



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6681 times:

"We hope to avoid a serious clash," said Fabio Berti, head of the pilots' union, told Dow Jones Newswires, but added that his group was willing to go on strike if necessary.


The 'Sabena Strategy' to getting your airline out of trouble.

Well, Mr Berti, you'd better be quick or you won't have an airline over which to go on strike.


User currently offlineAA777DFW From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6525 times:

I hope they won't go down! Alitalia has such a beautiful livery,


good luck to them!



User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6278 times:

If AZ did go bust, who or what would replace them? VirginAzzura? A possible merger? With who? AF&KLM?

Maybe they should liquidate and start again from scratch, sort of like SR!


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6246 times:

Maybe they should liquidate and start again from scratch, sort of like SR!

SR's restart hasn't been much of a success-story, has it? I doubt they would go for a scenario of continual decline and downsizing. Better go for a complete tabula rasa and start over the SN-way.



User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

SR are doing terrible!!

I would rather see them like SN then. But I still wonder why the heck they can't control their economy??? SAS has recently and finally gotten control of their economy. And it was the toughest time ever for SAS. But they managed to do it. So why can't Alitalia do the same???

Edit: And if it is because they are afraid that the personell will go on strike. Well, lets just do this then. Fire their asses and employ others who are interested in the existence of the company. That was the strategy SAS was running.

[Edited 2004-08-25 07:41:29]

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6149 times:

The threat of massive strikes is very real. Alitalia is notorious for overstaffing and low productivity, and its unions are just as notorious for their unwillingess to cooperate in any corrective action. Alitalia's Unions are likely some of the last representatives of a sydicalism of times long gone by. Their counterparts at Air France and Iberia seem to have better understood the realities of the new dynamics of the airline industry. And look at how Air France and Iberia, once the struggling members of the European aviation scene, are doing today...



User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6080 times:

AZ need to start over from scratch, split out their domestic operation (ATI, anyone ?), focus on building a true single-type long haul fleet out of dual hubs (MXP, FCO - unfortunately, MXP sucks but they're stuck with it). They need to restart operations to Latin America and Australia, focussing on high--end business routes.

The Italian state needs to intervene in the ground handling arrangments in both airports. SEA and Aeroporti di Roma are both extremely inefficient as well, which slows down the AZ operation. Where necessary AZ should take over and run its own ground handling operations - the customer-facing ones anyway (they own the systems after all anyway).

AZ need to join an Alliance, any alliance - but until they get themselves sorted out, nobody will touch them.


User currently offlineMatterhorn From Switzerland, joined Feb 2004, 135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

"AZ need to join an Alliance, any alliance "


AZ is in Sky Team.
is it likely, that any Skyteam member will send some financial aid to Alitalia?



Last Flight: BSL-AMS on EZY, Next Flight: ZRH-LHR on LX
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

I'm going to buck the trend and suggest that Alitalia be allowed to fail
My reasons are that the airline has been unprofitable for ages, they have been bailed out by the government time and time again, they go on strike persistently and the staff tend to be very unhelpful (from a travel agent's perspective)

Italy should learn from this, dissolve Alitalia, and let a new name show the Italians how a national airline should be run.

Mark



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineStall From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

Italy need a new national airline.

This one is simply to expensive for the country and the customers.

Staff and management need to understand that they have to change !!!

If they don't change their attitude, customers are going to use other airlines on both domestic and international flights.

As simple as that.



Flying is fun
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Didnt AZ just order new ERJ-170s? Instead of fixing their fleet to their wishes, they should save money but lower their prices and offer more. Theyd get out of trouble soon.

DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

Backfire,

You refer to the 'Sabena Strategy' when you attack the threat to strike at AZ from the Pilot Unions, yet you clearly failed to understand the strategy used at Sabena.

It seems the only thing the management and the majority shareholders of SN (at that time: SR and the Belgian Government) did well during those last months of 2001 was to spread the image of pilots going on strike without anysound reason and thus finishing of their own company.

Exactly the opposite was true!

The SN pilots were the only ones which saw the problems coming (SR was due to give SN additional financing according to an agreement signed a few months earlier, but all signs were there to believe the Swiss were not going to honour their financial obligations. Since the money was needed the same day it was supposed to be paid to pay back a loan, any delay in the payment from the Swiss would mean immediate bankruptcy of SN!) In order to FORCE the Belgian government to make contingency plans and look for alternative funding to avoid bankruptcy, we rang the alarm bell, yet were not heart, hence we went on strike to get public attention to this mismanagement of the Belgian government.

We were publicly called incompetent, foolish, crazy, and even economic kamikaze terrorists by Rik Daems, the minister responsible for Sabena at that time, which claimed SR was gong to honor all their financial obligations and that we had no clue.

Of course, the evening before the payment was due, SR faxed a lettre to the board of SN shareholders stating they were NOT going to pay and SN had no contingency plan for the next day, so they had to file for bankruptcy protection....

The rest is history, but you see, things are not always like they appear...
I would therefore prefer you not to refer to the Sabena strategy so lightly.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5739 times:

Sabenapilot,

hence we went on strike to get public attention to this mismanagement of the Belgian government.


But being in the situation SN where in towards the end of 2001, didn't anyone have the foresight to realise that any strike was only going to be the final nail in the coffin for Sabena, irrespective of the loan payment being made?

IMO, and I admit I may not know the facts, but striking when your employer is on the brink of collapse is, well, just a little foolish.

Mark


[Edited 2004-08-25 14:20:53]


Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineLumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

Hi, sabenapilot.
It's maybe a simple explanation but the pilots(not only sabena) are making stikes without any regards to the other workers.Also at Sabena .This is not a way to do I yhink.A company is somthing together or not.
Regards
Patrice


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Let it die... as simple as that.

AZ has proven repeatedly that it not able to sort out its structural weaknesses, that they heavily rely on the Italian government, that is, on the Italian taxpayer, and I'm not quite sure if the Italian taxpayers are actually happy to pay again and again for AZ to survive.

Besides other morbid industries might find the idea to be financed by others very attractive, too, and start complaining. Don't let that happen, let AZ die!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6661 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

I genuinely hope Alitalia make it through this 'rough patch'.

As Andreas alluded to above, the problem is that AZ's "rough patch" has lasted the better part of a few decades...my personal affinity for them aside, they're a disgustingly mismanged carrier, akin to a government bureaucracy, that has had a revolving door at CEO for far too long. Their MXP move was a perfect example of this mismanagement, among other things.

They've seen charter carriers cannibalize their Italian leisure markets and they've responded as quickly as a sloth.

The good citizens of Italy deserve better. Enough of the entire 'state-run' airline construct. Fish or cut bait. Live or die, but make up your mind. Best of luck to them, but the status quo is not sustainable.


User currently offlineLX001 From Austria, joined Jun 2004, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5278 times:

They will never be able to change into positive! Every little change turns into a strike. Think about the past. Their employees don´t understand the situation. Times are more difficult now, but they keep on living in the "economical past". No airline in the world is so overstuffed on the one hand and so unproductive on the other hand. Sorry, but maybe it´s better to make a total new start?!

[Edited 2004-08-25 15:57:55]

User currently offlineUnique From Switzerland, joined Mar 2003, 1703 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

All you aviation experts out there:

In Italy, it is far from easy to just sack staff and hire new ones! The law just doesn't allow it! At least two years salary has to be compensated when somebody is sacked. Money AZ simply doesn't have!

I'm afraid they have to try and do it with the existing staff...


User currently offlineStall From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

Union can go on strike as much they want. If no customers fly with Alitalia the company will cease to exist. Period.


Flying is fun
25 Andreas : Interesting! So they have a classical catch 22: The current staff has proven again and again that they are not capable to adapt to the desperate situa
26 Boo25 : I'm sorry and i wish good luck to all of the staff, but AZ has continually failed to restructure, is trying to fly in the face of denial of the real s
27 BuyantUkhaa : @unique: What does the Italian law say about unemployment benefit in case of bankruptcy? The government would probably have to pay for them, and that'
28 Slider : @unique: What does the Italian law say about unemployment benefit in case of bankruptcy? The government would probably have to pay for them, and that'
29 ETStar : Maybe it is time that Alitalia does go through real restructuring and re-emerge as a strong, lean company. How much longer can its uncertainties go on
30 Delta777jet : Yippie, only 19 days left till AZ planes never will fly again !! I`m not against AZ but if it is true and not just bluff from the CEO, it is the right
31 Lj : Anyone seriously thinking AZ will go bust??? I personally think that it will be a hard battle but in the end "someting" will be worked out (someting s
32 Andreas : Delta: Actually I find it a bit ....misplaced, to celebrate the going belly-up of a company...in the end it means unemployment, tons of cost and an ab
33 JCS : What will survive: AZ or this topic? I think it is really a 'sensation remark' of this CEO. He likes to say that AZ is in big risk.
34 AAMD11 : I heard on the BBC today that Alitalia will run out of cash on around the 15th of September. Apparantly AZ is expected to lose over 500 million Euros
35 EZEIZA : According to Italian press, AZ only has 72mill€ left, enough to pay September salaries. Doesn't look good ... I hope they can make it
36 Post contains images NightFlier : According to RAI International Alitalia is laying off 7000 thousand employees for one month so they can restructure the airline. Alitalia also claims
37 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : From ATW: Alitalia reported a net loss of eur329 million ($400.7 million) for the first half of 2004 and warned that it will post a loss for the full
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