Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 71 Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6840 times:
Just heard this on the radio: according to it's President, Alitalia has about 20 days left to find a solution to it's financial crisis - if a solution is not found until 15 September, they would be forced into involuntary administration.
During the summer months, Alitalia had about 17 million euros less revenues than expected.
Stratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1038 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6393 times:
Sounds odd to me... I'd reckon that payments were due at the end of a month...??
Probably just a despicable try to put more pressure on the unions to accept the slashing of a few thousand jobs.
And another proof that the least we Europeans need is a (so called) "consolidated air market".
Let's hope things will improve when Mrs. de Palacio leaves office next month. (unlikely )
QIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5888 times:
SR are doing terrible!!
I would rather see them like SN then. But I still wonder why the heck they can't control their economy??? SAS has recently and finally gotten control of their economy. And it was the toughest time ever for SAS. But they managed to do it. So why can't Alitalia do the same???
Edit: And if it is because they are afraid that the personell will go on strike. Well, lets just do this then. Fire their asses and employ others who are interested in the existence of the company. That was the strategy SAS was running.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4450 posts, RR: 73 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5820 times:
The threat of massive strikes is very real. Alitalia is notorious for overstaffing and low productivity, and its unions are just as notorious for their unwillingess to cooperate in any corrective action. Alitalia's Unions are likely some of the last representatives of a sydicalism of times long gone by. Their counterparts at Air France and Iberia seem to have better understood the realities of the new dynamics of the airline industry. And look at how Air France and Iberia, once the struggling members of the European aviation scene, are doing today...
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5751 times:
AZ need to start over from scratch, split out their domestic operation (ATI, anyone ?), focus on building a true single-type long haul fleet out of dual hubs (MXP, FCO - unfortunately, MXP sucks but they're stuck with it). They need to restart operations to Latin America and Australia, focussing on high--end business routes.
The Italian state needs to intervene in the ground handling arrangments in both airports. SEA and Aeroporti di Roma are both extremely inefficient as well, which slows down the AZ operation. Where necessary AZ should take over and run its own ground handling operations - the customer-facing ones anyway (they own the systems after all anyway).
AZ need to join an Alliance, any alliance - but until they get themselves sorted out, nobody will touch them.
7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 42 Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5526 times:
I'm going to buck the trend and suggest that Alitalia be allowed to fail
My reasons are that the airline has been unprofitable for ages, they have been bailed out by the government time and time again, they go on strike persistently and the staff tend to be very unhelpful (from a travel agent's perspective)
Italy should learn from this, dissolve Alitalia, and let a new name show the Italians how a national airline should be run.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2712 posts, RR: 48 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5448 times:
You refer to the 'Sabena Strategy' when you attack the threat to strike at AZ from the Pilot Unions, yet you clearly failed to understand the strategy used at Sabena.
It seems the only thing the management and the majority shareholders of SN (at that time: SR and the Belgian Government) did well during those last months of 2001 was to spread the image of pilots going on strike without anysound reason and thus finishing of their own company.
Exactly the opposite was true!
The SN pilots were the only ones which saw the problems coming (SR was due to give SN additional financing according to an agreement signed a few months earlier, but all signs were there to believe the Swiss were not going to honour their financial obligations. Since the money was needed the same day it was supposed to be paid to pay back a loan, any delay in the payment from the Swiss would mean immediate bankruptcy of SN!) In order to FORCE the Belgian government to make contingency plans and look for alternative funding to avoid bankruptcy, we rang the alarm bell, yet were not heart, hence we went on strike to get public attention to this mismanagement of the Belgian government.
We were publicly called incompetent, foolish, crazy, and even economic kamikaze terrorists by Rik Daems, the minister responsible for Sabena at that time, which claimed SR was gong to honor all their financial obligations and that we had no clue.
Of course, the evening before the payment was due, SR faxed a lettre to the board of SN shareholders stating they were NOT going to pay and SN had no contingency plan for the next day, so they had to file for bankruptcy protection....
The rest is history, but you see, things are not always like they appear...
I would therefore prefer you not to refer to the Sabena strategy so lightly.
7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 42 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5410 times:
hence we went on strike to get public attention to this mismanagement of the Belgian government.
But being in the situation SN where in towards the end of 2001, didn't anyone have the foresight to realise that any strike was only going to be the final nail in the coffin for Sabena, irrespective of the loan payment being made?
IMO, and I admit I may not know the facts, but striking when your employer is on the brink of collapse is, well, just a little foolish.
[Edited 2004-08-25 14:20:53]
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
Lumumba From Belgium, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5403 times:
It's maybe a simple explanation but the pilots(not only sabena) are making stikes without any regards to the other workers.Also at Sabena .This is not a way to do I yhink.A company is somthing together or not.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5211 times:
Let it die... as simple as that.
AZ has proven repeatedly that it not able to sort out its structural weaknesses, that they heavily rely on the Italian government, that is, on the Italian taxpayer, and I'm not quite sure if the Italian taxpayers are actually happy to pay again and again for AZ to survive.
Besides other morbid industries might find the idea to be financed by others very attractive, too, and start complaining. Don't let that happen, let AZ die!
Slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6624 posts, RR: 36 Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4986 times:
I genuinely hope Alitalia make it through this 'rough patch'.
As Andreas alluded to above, the problem is that AZ's "rough patch" has lasted the better part of a few decades...my personal affinity for them aside, they're a disgustingly mismanged carrier, akin to a government bureaucracy, that has had a revolving door at CEO for far too long. Their MXP move was a perfect example of this mismanagement, among other things.
They've seen charter carriers cannibalize their Italian leisure markets and they've responded as quickly as a sloth.
The good citizens of Italy deserve better. Enough of the entire 'state-run' airline construct. Fish or cut bait. Live or die, but make up your mind. Best of luck to them, but the status quo is not sustainable.
LX001 From Austria, joined Jun 2004, 111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4949 times:
They will never be able to change into positive! Every little change turns into a strike. Think about the past. Their employees don´t understand the situation. Times are more difficult now, but they keep on living in the "economical past". No airline in the world is so overstuffed on the one hand and so unproductive on the other hand. Sorry, but maybe it´s better to make a total new start?!
Unique From Switzerland, joined Mar 2003, 1703 posts, RR: 38 Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4395 times:
All you aviation experts out there:
In Italy, it is far from easy to just sack staff and hire new ones! The law just doesn't allow it! At least two years salary has to be compensated when somebody is sacked. Money AZ simply doesn't have!
I'm afraid they have to try and do it with the existing staff...