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DEN Makes Overseas Pitch To UA  
User currently offlineAirfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 42
Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7777 times:

Denver International Airport is making its most aggressive pitch in several years to try to persuade United Airlines to launch trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flights from DIA.

Airport officials hope to capitalize on several recent developments, including an increase in United's passenger demand on international flights, the carrier's desire to add overseas routes and flight-capacity problems at United's Chicago hub.

More here:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_3132697,00.html

DEN is certainly in a position to benefit if UA cuts ORD international traffic, esp given that several of the 777s out of ORD actually start in DEN. However, I still imagine that most of the traffic getting cut is RJs and low yield flights, not international travels. Still I think it is highly likely that a non stop will start to NRT soon (because of ANA's presence). LH does quite well on there Franfurt-DEN run but I doubt that they will be willing to start a Munich flight as well (although maybe UA will).

BA already has strong bookings to LHR, but I doubt that UA will be willing to fly into LGW out of DEN even if it has the nice side effect of kicking BA to LGW.

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7598 times:

DEN is certainly in a position to benefit if UA cuts ORD international traffic, esp given that several of the 777s out of ORD actually start in DEN.

They are also in a much better position if UA were to not liquidate.. I think DEN should allow UA restructure before pressuring for new routes  Big grin


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

Amen, DfwRevolution. UA needs to worry about survival, not placating Denver's quest for prestige.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

This is no surprise. DEN would kill anyone you asked to serve LHR from DEN, and they were going to serve it as a US Airways route to LGW during the merger.

N


User currently offlineJmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

Gigneil,

Not following your post there. BA serves DEN from LHR.


Please explain  Smile



Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
User currently offlineVSLover From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1897 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7450 times:

this reminds me: didnt BA serve LGW at first? I seem to recall my sister coming to see me in London, but having to go get her at LGW...

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

This is no surprise. DEN would kill anyone you asked to serve LHR from DEN, and they were going to serve it as a US Airways route to LGW during the merger.


I think every city in North America not included in Bermuda II would do likewise. However, is there any way DEN can overcome this agreement?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7404 times:

Yeah, sorry, my post made no sense.

I meant to say UA would kill anyone you asked to serve DEN-LHR.

N


User currently offlineAirfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7352 times:

VSLover -> Yes. One of the rules in Bermuda II is that any of the British Flag carriers can fly to/from a particular city on the list if it is unchallanged by any other carrier. So if UA were to start denver to london service, both carriers would have to fly out of LGW instead of LHR.

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7328 times:

Rumors were circulating of NW starting AMS-DEN


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7311 times:

Rumors were circulating of NW starting AMS-DEN


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7281 times:

Is there even an opening under Bermuda II where it would be possible for UA to start DEN-LGW service? If US was so inclined. It would be interesting to see what BAs reraction would be if UA did start or even talk about that service.

User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

Under Bermuda II you cannot service two different London airports from the same city. So if UA was to start DEN LON service it would have to be to LHR. I would expect to see DEN NRT service before you would see anything to Europe. From what I can tell from UA's new service announcements Asia is doing better for them. But I am sure UA is waiting for subsidy's like BA and LH got before starting service. They already have some subsidized routed from DEN such as the 757 from EGE.

-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

DEN could potentially get the authority by way of the soon to be dormant PIT-LGW route. That is exactly how TWA got the designation for STL. They had authority from PIT and when TW dismantled the PIT hub they transferred their authority from PIT to STL. Its not quite so simple here as US is the designated carrier from PIT but it could be sold if US doesnt plan to transfer it within their system.

I could be wrong in this case though. That is how things worked in the early eighties and also when TW's PHL and BWI authorities were sold. PIT was granted the designation as an exception/bone as the US and UK were attempting to revise the treaty to eventually encompass open skies. What the exact terms of that exemption are/were I cannot recall.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

Gigneil, you seem to have merely repeated yourself rather than clarified. I for one am still none the wiser.

I think UA would do well at Denver, for connections throughout the west. It would mean less onward-bound connecting pax on their San Fran / LA flights, which would leave more room on those services for more lucrative O&D pax.

As a fan of Stephen King and especially The Stand, I've always wanted to visit Colorado (especially for Boulder). I've heard that Denver is one of the nicest cities in the US as well, but in my dozens of trips across the pond, I've never been there.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineHisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7029 times:

My understanding is that if UA decides to start DEN-LON then BA would be forced to switch back to DEN-LGW (according to bermuda II).

Hisham.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

Gigneil, you seem to have merely repeated yourself rather than clarified. I for one am still none the wiser.

Sigh.

UA would really like to serve DEN-LHR.

Is there even an opening under Bermuda II where it would be possible for UA to start DEN-LGW service? If US was so inclined.

US already has a station at LGW. It would have been trivial to add DEN as a destination from LGW, whereas UA would need a brand new station for one route.

N


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6988 times:

UA and US are both Star members. UA would not need to add a station as they could easily be handled by US. The bigger trick would be US' survival in the first place.

User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

As stated above by many, DEN-NRT will be their best bet. There are already too many flights into LHR from west coast cities. UA's strength lies within the Pacific - they should keep it that way. I really don't know if there would be enough traffic to fill a daily into LHR. Just a thought.

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6909 times:

DIA has a 16,000 ft runway, but can a UA 777 make it to NRT without payload restrictions.
The FRA & London flights are east-bound and have the luxury of tail-winds, but not the NRT-bound flight, which is longer too.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

DIA has a 16,000 ft runway, but can a UA 777 make it to NRT without payload restrictions.

No problem.

N


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

Such a route is no problem for a 777 - Delta serves NRT from ATL and AA from DFW, just for an example.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6875 times:

"I still imagine that most of the traffic getting cut is RJs and low yield flights, not international travels"
That looks to be the case...I wouldn't hold my breath if I were DEN hoping to get cut int'l flights from ORD. United has already said that the actual number of flights cut is only going to be maybe 4 or 6, and you can bet those will be low yield as Airfrnt mentioned.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6874 times:

DEN's problem for Pacific flights is that it's too close to the West Coast. SFO and LAX already generate tons of Pacific traffic; DEN is a relatively small market compared to these when it comes to international travel. UA will just feed passengers to these airports rather than send them through DEN.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6873 times:

The 16,000 Foot runway was built so DEN-NRT could be done non-stop with a 777


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 StevenUhl777 : Is it just me, or were the operators of DEN in a bitter fight with UA over gate leases and the F9/TED gate expansion issue? And now...all of a sudden
26 Texdravid : DEN needs to get in line behind DFW in ANY discussion about increasing international traffic. I think DEN is appropriately well served, considering it
27 Blhp68 : I actually spent an hour with the global air service coordinator a week ago. It was a very relaxed meeting, however some good information was mentione
28 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Under Bermuda II you cannot service two different London airports from the same city. I'm sure Detroit, Philadelphia, Newark, etc would be quite inter
29 Ual777contrail : CONCORDEBOY, So if UA was to start DEN LON service it would have to be to LHR sorry bub, you've got it completely backwards. Explain to us why UAL wou
30 Ordpark : United is not about to shift any ORD/Intl trips to DEN....The ORD intl schedule continues to grow.
31 Unitedkatw : I'm all for routes out of DEN via UA . I'd rather catch a flight from MKE or MSN to DEN to catch a flight than to route through the ORD mess.
32 FLY777UAL : Ual777Contrail-- While I agree that UA will serve LHR before they serve LGW, I have a much firmer grasp on the fact that under the current bilateral a
33 Stirling : I gotta side with Texdravid on this one. The Fortune 500 has a large base of operations in the DFW Metroplex, much more so than DEN. I can't think of
34 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Under Bermuda II you cannot service two different London airports from the same city. I'm sure Detroit, Philadelphia, Newark, etc would be quite inter
35 Pilatusguy : What if UA would start a DEN-VIE flight to serve eastern europe bound pax connecting through the VIE Star Alliance hub? Would there be a market?
36 Bartond : As much as I'd love to talk about DFW and our prospects for int'l. service, let's continue with DEN. What, if anything, happened to the supposed consi
37 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Well UA could benefit from any carrier servicing DEN it would just be a matter of that carrier publishing fares that allow UA as part of the routing.
38 Aa777jr : Last time I checked UA was flying out of DEN. People in this forum talk like here is no UA presence at DEN. What is wrong with continuing or upgrading
39 MAH4546 : What if UA would start a DEN-VIE flight to serve eastern europe bound pax connecting through the VIE Star Alliance hub? Would there be a market? There
40 UA744KSFO : "DEN needs to get in line behind DFW in ANY discussion about increasing international traffic. I think DEN is appropriately well served, considering i
41 Airzim : I was referring to the fact that if one Bermuda II carrier serviced LON from a US city that any other Bermuda II carriers who service LON from that ci
42 Ssides : That is why Denver, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix are so underserved when it comes to international routes to Europe and Asia. I wouldn't say IAH is unders
43 Jmy007 : Aa777jr said "Last time I checked UA was flying out of DEN. People in this forum talk like here is no UA presence at DEN. What is wrong with continuin
44 Jmy007 : Also not to go off topic, But DFW is not underserved internationally at all. It just most of the flights are on AA! (Asia,Europe,Latin America,Canada,
45 UA772IAD : Ual777contrail: I agree-- I personally don't see UA flying into LGW at anytime soon (Have they ever?) Currently, UA is huge at LHR, with one of the to
46 Jmy007 : UA772IAD- Please also remember, DIA is the largest airport in the state, and it serves not only Denver, but the Front Range, from Cheyenne to Fort Col
47 Post contains images DIA : "DEN needs to get in line behind DFW in ANY discussion about increasing international traffic." Are you kidding me?! That's a liberal statement if the
48 Airfrnt : All of the people complaining that DEN is looking at service that DFW doesn't yet have are missing a few things. One is that UA and F9 both hub in Den
49 Usatoeze : Cedarjet: Denver is beautiful, and Boulder will bring parts of The Stand to life. They are well worth a trip just to see them. If you are a big fan of
50 Bartond : Airfrnt - You're right, folks shouldn't put these two in the same category for total international flights. DFW serves four destinations in Europe, tw
51 Moman : UA744KSFO Let's not forget to add STL to that list as underserved intl' central-US cities. AA took away the STL-LGW flight last year I believe and now
52 Venezuela747 : I believe if DEN wants to increase their International service they msut first remodel the Immigration area, because I heard that there were only 2 co
53 F9Fan : DEN-NRT is very likely for UA because of the connections with other Star Alliance partners through NRT. DEN-MUN is another airline option for UA or ev
54 HB-IWC : Didn't UA for a season or so serve Frankfurt with B772 in direct competition with LH? I seem to remember it was just at the time when LH introduced it
55 StevenUhl777 : HB-IWC: Yes...not sure for how long, but UA did operate DEN-FRA in 2001 with a 772. I think 9/11 might have killed it. LH runs a 744 on that route, an
56 Ual777contrail : UAL's DEN-FRA was packed daily, SUN-SAT. Wish UAL would have kept that route. UAL 777 CONTRAIL
57 Spark : I really don't see why UA would put much Europe traffic out of DEN. The big prize would be LHR, which they can't do yet (and it ain't likely to happen
58 Jmy007 : Venezuela747, DEN immigration and customs is a sizeable area. There are a least a dozen counters at immigration, and when I was off loaded from a 777
59 Daumueller : However, I'm not sure how closely they work with Lufthansa, and would adding an extra flight to FRA cause friction with Lufthansa. LH and UA have a to
60 Airportplan : UA will not start new service from DEN to Asia any time soon. Don't look for more European UA service from DEN either. LH or another Star Alliance car
61 Jmy007 : Airportplan: For my understanding, Is DEN not the second largest and the most profitable hub in UA system? I would not call it an overflow hub by any
62 Post contains links Airportplan : Jmy007, DEN is mainly getting the new flights to Mexico because MX is no longer in Star Alliance. Yes. Denver is UA second most profitable hub, but on
63 Airfrnt : Airportplan: According to there own route map, F9 does fly international out of DEN. They fly to SJD, MZT, ZIH, and CUN. UA is probably starting Mexic
64 Airportplan : Airfrnt, Yes, non business people do travel internationally. But the markets that you just named (SJD, MZT, ZIH and CUN) are low yield leisure markets
65 Travelin man : LAX is almost as tapped out as ORD is. Uh, no it's not. I think if you look at delays by airport, LAX is nowhere near ORD. Sorry DEN-boosters, but hav
66 BA : Obviously it isn't there (except for FRA and LHR), or airlines would be FLYING the routes. I disagree. As a regular flyer between Denver and Europe on
67 Travelin man : BA, if the flights are "always full", why don't the airlines add additional flights to those cities? Sorry, but I get a little suspicious when there i
68 BA : BA, if the flights are "always full", why don't the airlines add additional flights to those cities? Because airlines have priorities. If airlines hav
69 DENSFONUA : Even though DEN does not have very many fortune 500 companies, it does have many companies that rely on international business, and international trav
70 HB-IWC : In a related development, Lufthansa will, effective October 31, deploy its A346 to DEN, replacing the B744 on the route. That means no more First Clas
71 PSU.DTW.SCE : NW/KLM just started AMS-ATL Its very possible you could see NW/KLM start a DEN-AMS route. NW/KLM act as the same airline across the Atlantic and must
72 Gigneil : NW/KLM just started AMS-ATL Re-started. This flight used to do fine, but was cut right around 9/11. Thus, it would make sense for UA to serve at least
73 Airfrnt : IMHO, there is very little chance for a AMS-DEN route. There is no feed at all for either NW or KLM into this market. NW does not tend to play ball wi
74 Airfrnt : Something to back up my points above. DEN is getting the 346, not ORD (333) or SFO (which is loosing their 346 as well). Why is this? The 346 has more
75 UA744KSFO : The AMS-ATL flight makes sense since KLM and NW are going to be joining Skyteam.
76 Aa777jr : Would like to see DEN get more UA overseas flights and take traffic away from ORD. ORD could service AA international flights and UA could use DEN mor
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