QF744 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8893 times:
I was just reading the press release about SQ ordering the 773ER and noted that they are retiring their 744s..
On certain routes, would SQ not be better keeping the 744s (eg SYD-SIN, SIN-LHR etc)... i mean these flights do have good loads, so why drop the size of the plane... surely this will dent their annual profits?
i'm sure QF could do with a few of the 744s!
Also, SQ have canned the Airbus and Boeing proposals for regional routes!
here is the part of the press release..
"The order reinforces SIA's standing as the biggest customer for the Boeing
777. SIA presently flies fifty-five B777s, and has another four B777s on
firm order. With this latest order, the number of B777s in the SIA fleet
will eventually reach seventy-seven units.
"The B777-300ER, seating about 350 passengers and with a range of 7,000 nm, will be deployed on SIA's long-haul and medium-haul routes. The new order will allow SIA to achieve capacity growth of between 4 and 6 per cent a
year. At the same time, it will maintain SIA's fleet as one of the industry
's youngest, as the B747-400 is progressively retired.
"SIA had also sought proposals from manufacturers for suitable aircraft to
operate on its regional routes. The manufacturers offered the Airbus
A330-200 and the new Boeing 7E7 for evaluation. SIA has decided not to
place any order for the regional aircraft because the proposals submitted
did not meet SIA's financial criteria. The airline will continue to use the
B777-200 to serve the regional routes.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4126 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8735 times:
SQ wants to keep a very young fleet. They also get more commonality/cheaper costs with the 773ERs they just ordered. Those 744s will be picked up by other carriers, they still have a good 15 years left in 'em I believe.
SafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8727 times:
On certain routes, would SQ not be better keeping the 744s (eg SYD-SIN, SIN-LHR etc)
The A380 would be much better on those routes.
"as the B747-400 is progressively retired"
The oldest 744s are leaving soon, although the keyword is "progressively", meaning that tomorrow morning, the 744s are not going to be gone (they will most likely be retired as the 380s and 773ERs come).
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 3010 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8553 times:
With the number of A380 and 773ERs on order, they will be retiring the 744 progressively. A380 will take-over the highest capacity routes such as SIN-LHR/NRT/SYD and increase frequencies to places where there aren't slot controlled airports with 773ER/772ER.
Perhaps pax version will be gone by 2010, which the newest 744 will be 8/9 years old. Remember this is a carrier that a 10-year old plane is old. For a certain red/silver colored US carrier that's still like fresh-off the line.
7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 769 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8515 times:
The fact that they are government subsidized has nothing to do with it.
They are well run and efficient. Their fleet is well maintained and their employees are highly motivated. When SARS hit their government didn't bail them out, they made the tough cuts necessary to sustain a viable concern
Historically, Singapore turns over its fleet regularly. They do this to keep costs down ... higher resale values, not having to pay for more expensive heavier checks ... etc.
Philsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8493 times:
As a SQ employee, I can assure you SQ is not subsidized! It is 57% owned by a holding company that is controlled by the Singapore government. However, there is no money from the government. In fact, the flow seems to be from SIA to the gov't in the form of dividends.
SIA has always had a young fleet. In fact, NWA bought some of our old 747F freighters if I'm not mistaken and they are some of the youngest classics in the NWA fleet.
Bill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8482 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8206 times:
SQ is a well run company with alot of cash. To the best of my knowlege in the entire time they have been operating they have only ever once posted a loss and that was in 2002 or 2003 and was mainly caused by the effects of SARS.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11027 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8093 times:
The earliest 744s of SIA are now 15 years old and I believe with the xception of the airline´s beginnings they never had any aircraft which they kept for so long.
I also expect the 744 pax aircraft to be gone from SIAs fleet by 2010 completely.
Be sure that by then the first 20 or so 777s of SIA will be retired as well btw. That´s just SIA policy, they´re always the no.1 forerunners (threatened here by Emirates and Virgin nowadays)
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5401 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7964 times:
Yes the NZ 744 fleet is highly utilized but I don't think they will want any more with the new 772 fleet arriving starting next year and those SQ 744's are P/W powered and NZ already operate GE and RR so I don't think they will want to add another engine type. That said as much as I would love them to get more 744's.
Sad to see SQ retiring the 744 pax aircraft but atleast they will be around for another 6-7 years yet.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11027 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7917 times:
NZ no way. They have already a small, but odd 744 fleet powered by RRs and GEs. SIAs 744s have PW-engines.
SIAs early 744s which are currently withdrawn from the fleet are going or have gone to Air Atlanta/Iberia, Air India, Cathay Pacific and Dragonair. That are the known takers at the moment. Air Atlanta will most likely take more when the now 22 years-plus ex NZ/CX-742s need to be replaced in the next years. I could see NWA take some, and probably El Al in the form of SFs. And midterm all the airlines who operate aging classic freighters and pax-aircraft. Atlas, Evergreen, Kalitta, Polar, and so on.
Changyou From Singapore, joined Nov 2003, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7052 times:
As a cabin crew for SQ...I'm glad that SQ decided to get rid of the 744s. They have so much problem with the cabin and galleys thus opening up complains to passengers...Geez...All hands raise for the 777-300ER!!
Ex_SQer From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1436 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4917 times:
Carpethead is correct: The current thinking is that it is more profitable to operate more frequent point-to-point services with smaller aircraft. Hence, 772s and 773ERs will be deployed on those routes where slots and bilaterals allow higher frequency of service. The A380's niche is high density routes where slots and/or bilaterals do not allow extra frequencies, or where desirable landing and takeoff slots are hard to come by.
I hate to break this to the people who want the 744s to stay for a while, but my understanding is that the current plan is to phase them out completely; target phaseout date is around 2007 or so. Also, no passenger versions of the 744 Advanced are currently under serious consideration.
As a SQ employee, I can assure you SQ is not subsidized!
Philsquares is correct. The only direct government assistance is in the form of loan guarantees.