I guess I wouldn't be that happy either (especially, since, in the end, PIT is supposed to have around 80 flights and FLL is going to have around 60), but it is a business, and obviously US Airways sees more potential in FLL.
NW747400 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 329 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5836 times:
Yes PIT was warned repeatadly. At this point I think US is willing to try anything just to stay around, and staying around means pulling flights from PIT and relocating them to FLL I'm sure US would do it.
NW747400
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5818 times:
I would think that would be a good idea also. I have just always thought PIT was too close to PHL. PHL has more money making flights (international). CLT is centrally located. And I always thought they needed a Southern presence for their Down South ventures.
Make perfect sense to me. Same thing AA did with RDU/BNA, and you see how profitable they are out of MIA...
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 48 Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5750 times:
Cry me a river.
Seriously, I really can't believe how childish the PIT authorities have been behaving. They do nothing but badmouth US and talk about all the wonderful LCCs that will be coming to their airport...then they wonder why they don't have a nonstop to Europe anymore. If I were US, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be doing that city any favors. Have you read some of the editorials in the papers lately, *begging* for the airline to collapse? Sick.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
Pitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2681 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5694 times:
If I were US, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be doing that city any favors.
That's great. The region built a $1 billion terminal after US Air begged for it for 10 years. The state offered to build them a new maintenance facility at taxpayer expense. No thanks. I feel bad for the local employees, but to US Airways I say don't let the door hit you in the ass. PIT will be much better off in 5 years, just like RDU, BNA, and MCI are better off after being de-hubbed. Where will US Airways be in 5 years? In 5 months?
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5674 times:
I have to think that PIT will be well after US also. I, however, just wish the people at/around PIT would realize that and just let it go. Nothing is going to be undone so just move on! It can only get better from here..
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1115 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5647 times:
Obviously none of you really have a clue as to what has transpired over the past 30 years between the airport authority, Allegheny County, the State of PA and numerous Senators and Representatives with regard to US. This carrier has enjoyed unparralled political support over the past thirty years as a direst result of Western PA's powerful political lobbies. PIT was there as the primary hub long before PHL. It was in fact the decision to open PHL as hub and then to continue and maintain it after the PI and PS aquisitions that started the dominoes toppling that created the situation they have today.
Had they maintained and continued building thier primary hubs at PIT and CLT while maintaining strong focus city type operations at PHL and BWI they would have had the resources to build westward and southward taking full advantage of the benefits brought by these aquisitions. Instead they allowed WN to blow them out of BWI and establish a beach head in the east, threw away PI's strong Florida network that could well have evolved into a much stronger version of what they are trying to do now and flat out flushed the west coast opportunities down the toilet.
The had the strongest and best protected franchise in the country with a lock on all major Northeast markets. Instead of strengthening and protecting it they mismanaged it down the tubes. Im disappointed in the most recent statements by Kent George but at the same time I understand where he is coming from. In the long haul though things will work out ok. The carrier is going down anyway. PHL while much improved is (apart from transatlatic opportunities) a horrible place to try to run a major operation. Eastern and Midway found that out the hard way. Apparently the "enlightened ones" in the executive suite didnt go too far back in the study of their airline business history before going to the plate.
They will be lucky to even get FLL up and running. They are looking at what is currently a potentially high yield area in the Carribean but I believe they are in fact creating the same situation that WN's forays into BWI and PHL did to them only in reverse. Unforunately again, the executive suite isnt learning from their own past mistakes. They are going to get the opposite effect of what WN has done to them. They are challenging AA in its most protected niche. If US waa a strong LCC that might be worth trying but they arent. They are an extrememely weak legacy carrier with a demoralized workforce and high cost structure. Their costs are higher than AA"s, they dont have the resources and they are driving in on Spirits home turf. Talk about taking it on both ends.
Furthermore, FLL has nowhere near the facilities required to make this work properly. Are they planning on the state of Florida or Broward county to build it for them aka what Allegheny County did? Fat chance. They have no crediblity and no one is coming to their rescue. They cant do it on thier own. It is a shame. They have a good product and many good people. They deserve better than the empty headed and self serving management teams of the past. Unfortunately the damage has already been done. Lee Iacocca couldnt fix this mess. Before you descend into flaming this response please view my profile. I know what I'm talking about and have been both directly and indirectly involved in this for a long, long time.
Tom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 41 Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5634 times:
That's great. The region built a $1 billion terminal after US Air begged for it for 10 years. The state offered to build them a new maintenance facility at taxpayer expense. No thanks. I feel bad for the local employees, but to US Airways I say don't let the door hit you in the ass. PIT will be much better off in 5 years, just like RDU, BNA, and MCI are better off after being de-hubbed. Where will US Airways be in 5 years? In 5 months?
Bingo!!!
I met Kent George through AAAE many years ago, and served as chairman of one of AAAE's (airport executives group) commitee's during his presidency of the group. He's in a much better position than any of us to accurately predict the future of his airport, and, for that matter, to make any editorial comments about it.
Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1115 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5607 times:
I apologize ERJ170, Tom in NO and Pitrules. Your posts came in while I was writing my little tirade. I hope no offense was taken. Somewhat of a sore spot with me. We will be fine after US goes. Im finding that already.
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5575 times:
Did PHL become a USAir hub by being aquired through Piedmont (like CLT, DAY, and BWI) or was it already a USAir hub?
Moman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5562 times:
Flaps:
Sounds like a last minute effort to keep a sinking ship floating a little longer. I feel sorry for the employees who have short-sighted executives leading them.
FLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5511 times:
I quote from the article:
' "Abandoning Pittsburgh is immoral, if not unethical... Pittsburgh has always been supportive of US Airways." -- Christine Fox, CWA Union President'
Just above that, however, is the following:
' "Just a few months after downgrading Pittsburgh from "hub" status to what it calls a "focus city"...'
I assume US will still be operating a lot of flights to PIT, given that it is still a "focus city" for the airline... Ms Fox, therefore, is exaggerating greatly with her "abandoning" claim. US's no.1 priority at the moment must be to prevent bankruptcy, and if that means moving somewhere other than PIT then so be it. Business is business, whether Ms Fox, Mr George and the relevant authorities like it or not.
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5496 times:
Best point I have seen up here so far.. Business is business! US has to do whatever to get itself in a good position.. Right now they are bent over with a big stick up their "rumps"
Supa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5478 times:
Flaps, PIT cannot support much domestic O&D, let alone Europe. Meanwhile, its landing fees are much higher than other airports. It really is that simple.
N670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5412 times:
Meanwhile, its landing fees are much higher than other airports. It really is that simple.
Landing fees aren't the problem. The issue here is outstanding debt service from the construction of the current terminal.
Tom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 41 Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5391 times:
Yep, business is business.........and so is meeting one's end of a contractual agreement, or making an equitable agreement to terminate or amend that agreement.....not reject and run away from it.
Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5358 times:
I have to agree with Supa7E7,
its a little bit unfair to blame US that strong for downsizing PIT. Together with the success of the LCC and their point-to-point flying the hub model became less important and airlines had to reduce the number of hubs. Don't forget that some other legacies also had to reduce their number of hubs. AA Dismantled STL and DL is expected to close DFW. And as I often read here there were much more former hubs which are now not even focus cities any more. In Europe we saw the end of BRU and to a lesser extend ZRH as hubs. So its part of the game that airlines are looking for their opportunities. It was obvious since at least a year that US has too much hubs in the east that they had to decide between PIT and PHL. And if US thinks that they cant make money more money in PIT than in PHL so its ok to leave PIT.
Tom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 41 Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5307 times:
.....so its ok to leave PIT.
So long as they meet the contractual obligations of their lease with PIT, which along with the likely loss of service at PIT, would be of primary concern to the airport operator folks.
Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
Aa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5280 times:
U allowed WN to take over BWI? That's like saying Saddam "allowed" the U.S. Army to occupy Iraq. TC
Moman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5259 times:
AA717Driver,
Judging by the way Saddam fought I'd say he did allow us to occupy it =).
I flew US to BWI in 2001 and as soon as I bought my tix, WN undercut them by $60. That's what happened to them there.
LambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2040 posts, RR: 39 Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5255 times:
Pittsburgh needs to get over it, business is business. This is basically like AA cutting back STL in favor of ORD etc., but on a slightly smaller scale. US just needs to survive, much less worry about what PIT thinks of them. You don't see Leonard Griggs crying about AA pulling 50% of its hub. PIT should be working with the airline on maintaining the maximum service as possible rather than getting into it with them. Nothing is set in stone after the initial round of cutbacks that have already been announced. This is very well demonstrated by what happened in STL, we were slated to be largely a spoke city for AA if it wasnt for a couple last ditch efforts by city hall to keep it a small hub.
Moman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5225 times:
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5180 times:
PIT is a awful airport and an awful city, boo hoo US left, get over it, that is the way business is done. US is trying to stay alive and if they need to get into a city where people actually want to travel to than more power to them. For the couple of people that think PIT is so great why are you upset? If its such a great place im sure that PIT will have many airlines just waiting for a chance to get in.... NOT!!! People want to fly to FLL, and the people that live in the area are people that would utilize Intl. service so of course there going to dump the dump that is PIT....
Cody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1918 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4785 times:
I think the PIT airport is the nicest in the country in terms of passenger and pilot convenience. Also, someone asked about USAir's history in PHL....no it was not an acquired hub through the mergers. It was a major focal point for Allegheny for years and then in 1990 they purchased even more gates from Midway and made the hub bigger.
25 Supa7E7: PIT has nice INTL facilities... oh well...
26 Expressjetphx: Where will US Airways be in 5 years? In 5 months? In FLL Sounds like a last minute effort to keep a sinking ship floating a little longer. I feel sorr
27 Moman: Expressjetphx All we can do is hope they are right. Moman
28 ATCT: Being a Pittsburgher and former US loyal flyer, SCREW EM! I really hope US nosedives. It would be a blessing to the industry and to Pittsburgh in the
29 ERJ170: ATCT.. That is just wrong. US has to do what they have to do to at least make it another 6 months. They decided PIT was not the answer. It was a busin
30 Freshlove1: It doesn't matter who replaces US in PIT if they go under. Who ever it is is going to have the same problem with the high costs. The money has to be p
31 Jetpixx: I am personally happy with the move of US making FLL a focus city. Better for me with more choices and better service to some interesting places here
32 KITH: PIT wans't far enough west, its still in the east for people wanting to go west. Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis...they are west. I love PIT and think US
33 NWA330Tony: PIT made USairways just as USAirways made PIT the 2 have thrived together for years. Now business is shaky US want to pull out hey if they think it ca
34 Airknight: quickmover- phl was a usair hub before piedmont
35 Slider: In terms of PIT, the city has a great deal of Fortune 500 firms and was one of the first of the proverbial "rust belt" cities to undergo a Renaissance
36 Pgh234: UAL747DEN: Probably one of the more immature posts I have seen here recently. Judging by the post and the content of your profile I have to doubt your
37 DCA-ROCguy: You're right, Freshlove, that the debt on PIT isn't going to magically disappear. But neither US nor any incoming LCC is going to pay it, because no i
38 TxAgKuwait: It isn't entirely true, Freshlove, that WN or B6 or whoever will face the same cost burdens USAirways was dealing with at PIT. The reason that it migh
39 Flaps: The fee issue is a bit of a red herring at the moment. The county and state are and have been for some time involved in considerable activity on the i
40 Supa7E7: TxAgKuwait, If you think PIT is going to reach new heights of airport traffic after it is de-hubbed, that must be the crack talking (no disrespect to
41 N670UW: If you think PIT is going to reach new heights of airport traffic after it is de-hubbed, that must be the crack talking He's not talking about traffic
42 Flaps: Supa7E7 And exactly who guarranteed that loan and exactly who is on the hook when they fail to pay it back...... Last time I checked that was the gove
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