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UA Applies To Fly To Guangzhou/CAN  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5583 times:

United's plan to fly to China's "third city", Guangzhou, are no secret, but today they filed with DOT:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=294555&docketid=19026

United plans daily 777-200ER service between San Francisco and Guangzhou via Tokyo starting 25 March 2005. After that, they propose upgrading the service to daily non-stop flights from San Francisco using 747-400s one year later.


a.
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Well let me speak for all when I say ITS ABOUT F***IN TIME!!

-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

GOOD NEWS!!!

UAL will do great on that route.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

I presume this is a direct result of the expanded rights negotiated just recently?

Will NW and AA get any additional slots into China in general?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Will NW and AA get any additional slots into China in general?

AA is a new entrant to China, they could be allowed in in 2005. NW has already gotten new slots to serve CAN, and they are doing so, DTW-NRT-CAN.

N


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5192 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

UA will pull out before the 400's even make it there.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

UA will pull out before the 400's even make it there.

Perhaps you could argue your point a bit?

N


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5102 times:

What makes you think that way???

Well, there are different means of transports between Hong Kong and Guangzhou. Very efficient and very convenient and it takes no more than two hours to get from Hong Kong to Guangzhou by train/high speed ferries (which you can take them at HKIA).

UA already flies from ORD/SFO to HKG.

What worries me is...... is there a need for such a route?

Perhaps AA should fly to HKG.


User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

SFO to CAN via Narita certainly is far more attractive, everything else (fares and attractiveness of schedule) being equal.

It certainly beats changing to a different mode of transport (train / high-speed ferry).

Any right to serve a route linking a major US and a major Chinese gateway is valuable - and once obtained should be hung on to for dear life. It certainly is not something an airline look to milking for just a few years.

KC Sim
Bangkok


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

But when you are AA, you probably wont have it for life. They have such a small presence in china. Funny when people were comparing south American dominance by AA and slamming UA for their huge presence in Asia during SARS. Now it appears AA wants in on the Chinese experience.

This is good news for UAL.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

Now it appears AA wants in on the Chinese experience

um... "now"???


Perhaps you missed the virtual bloodfeud between AA and DL the last time rights to the PRC were up for grabs? Or AA conducting the first ETOPS207 commercial assessment test with N777AN, for the express purpose of facilitating PRC/HK flights?


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

Why wouldn't UA start with a 777 nonstop to Guangzhou? Why only do a 744 nonstop?


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

UAL and NWA have 5th freedom pax-cargo rights on the JAPAN-CHINA-JAPAN route hence the new CAN route is routed via NRT and that too same aircraft.

UAL probably isnt too confident on CAN being able to fill up a B 777 on its own hence it thought that it would be best to fly via NRT which is a profitable route for UAL. The airline through its Star Alliance member ANA can hope to get quite a few Japanese and Chinese O&D pax flying NRT-CAN-NRT.

Its good to see that UAL is seizing upon potentially lucurative Intl flight opportunities and not increase frequencies on low yield domestic flights.

Also remember the main reason why a lot of UAL and NWA flights to other cities in ASIA are routed via JAPAN is because after World War 2, USA brokered a deal whereby its airlines would be allowed unlimited 5th freedom pax-cargo rights from any Japanese city to any Asian city but in return Japanese carriers cannot do the same on domestic routes and nor (I think) on US-CANADA-US routes...dunno 100% if JAL-ANA have 5th freedom rights on the US-CANADA-US and US-MEX-US routes.

[Edited 2004-08-31 18:05:43]

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

Thanks Behramjee.

Will this new "route" add an additional SFO - NRT flight to what already exists, or replace another direct route?



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4587 times:

it takes no more than two hours to get from Hong Kong to Guangzhou by train/high speed ferries (which you can take them at HKIA).

Try convince a mother with 2 kids with 4 suitcases, car seats, baby bags to transit thru HKG...not a chance. For people that live in HKG, commute between HKG and Guangzhou is such a no-brainer. But don't forget the bags, custom/immigration clearance if your are from other places.

What worries me is...... is there a need for such a route?

Given that the population in Guangzhou is far greater than in HK, yeah there is. It means they do not have to drag their suitcases thru Guangzhou railway station, clear immigration at Kowloon, then change to Airport Express...and you might have to arrive to HK the night before. Nothing against HK but no thanks.

I'll take any airline that gets me to my destination in the least time. I dumped NW for UA just because NW stops at NRT, while UA flies non-stop into China.

Go UA!


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

It's about time China is getting respect, with increased services to Beijing, Shanghai...now hopefully Guangzhou. Guangzhou is a great city, I was there for an overnighter about 6 years ago while visiting a friend in Hong Kong, and they definately deserve more international service! Only...it should be from ORD  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

Since when has China not been getting respect? It is near the top of the list of airports/countries that many airlines around the world are trying to gain access to. The number of flights into China by US carriers has been so limited because they cannot secure the rights from China. If they were allowed, AA, CO, and DL would all jump at the opportunity to fly to China.

User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

Oh, ok. I didn't know that. Sorry. I simply meant it as that they haven't always gotten the traffic that Japan or Hong Kong as gotten...I didn't know it was because of rights and stuff. I'm nowhere near as smart as most of the people on this site, and it was just a mistake.

User currently offlineNwfltattendant From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

Looks like UA is 'keeping up with the jones'... cant be outdone by another carrier. I dont know that this is a route that can sustain a 777. Theres a reason NW is only flying a B752 in there.........

...........just a thought



Go yakkin !!!!!!
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4378 times:

Nwfltattendant,

You didn't read the application at all did you? The reason they didn't apply before is because they didn't want a battle of airline vs airline like they did in DEN they wanted to be granted to one so they could just go in and take the other 7 slots there. The route can support a 777 no problem. Especially with the Air China code share! Plus, UA dose all their cargo with their passenger aircraft so the widebody makes since where as NW can ground transport their cargo to HKG and put it on the first freighter back to the states. It all makes perfect since but I guess working for NW you have nothing better to do then try to look down on superior carriers. Yea it doesn't seem so right when some one else is doing it to you, dose it? Grow up and watch the finances and try to keep up with the industry!


-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Can one of you avid UA fans tell me UA's current trans-pacific routes? I know its probably quite extensive, so my apology in advance for the time spent compiling the list.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

United's current trans pac flights:

ORD NRT X2

ORD HKG

ORD PEK

ORD PVG

ORD KIX

JFK NRT

SEA NRT

LAX NRT

SFO NRT X3

SFO PEK

SFO PVG

SFO ICN

SFO HKG

SFO KIX

NRT ICN X2

NRT TPE

NRT BKK

NRT HKG

NRT SIN

HKG SIN

HKG SGN

HNL NRT X2

HNL KIX

SFO SYD

LAX SYD X2

SYD MEL

-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

Just one correction:

the latest StarAlliance onlime timetaable shows onls 2 flights SFO-NRT. But UA codeshares with NH on their daily flight.




User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

I dont know that this is a route that can sustain a 777. Theres a reason NW is only flying a B752 in there.........

Northwest is using a 757-200 there becaue they can. They have 757s based in Tokyo. United has no narrowbodies in Tokyo, so they don't have a choice if they wanted to. There is no reason to believe a 777 can't be popular. China Southern operates 777s non-stop on LAX-CAN, and Air France and Lufthansa are among CAN's growing list of international airlines.



a.
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

my bad your right....SFO NRT is only double daily.

-m

 Big thumbs up


25 A2 : What is the chances this route will be awarded to them? -A2
26 Burnsie28 : UAL777Contrail- Your kidding, obviously you dont know jack, the 757's is because NW has the rights to the second runway not suitable for heavy aircraf
27 Azjubilee : Well this thread has taken the typical turn for the worst... can we POSSIBLY be adults here? AZJ
28 Post contains images Unitedtristar : Burnsie28, Obviously you missed the hole point of the statement. It was only said to show that anyone can insult anyone but it gets you no where...But
29 Gigneil : What is the chances this route will be awarded to them? I think it to be high. There are a lot of new routes being awarded, and United and NW have bot
30 Post contains links PlaneGuy27 : A2 and Gigneil, There is almost no chance in hell that United will get this route. First United has already been awarded 7 new 2004 frequencies from t
31 Carnoc : Well, there is NO WAY the UAL would urge China Southern to start up the CAN-SFO service (unless the UAL is being mad), simply because: 1. China Southe
32 TPAC : PlaneGuy27 Totally agree. Way too many non-incumbents(AA, CO, DL, HA) wanting a piece of the China action. UA is just trying to muck up the waters in
33 Carnoc : Well, China is currently one of nations that are most profitable in regard to the UAL's current international network (as advised by one of their AP r
34 MAH4546 : Hawaiin Airlines has also urged the DOT to deny United's request. Hawaiian is also planning to apply for US-China rights. In my opinion, they will be
35 Carpethead : HA's 763ER can not make non-stop PEK or PVG from HNL with winter head winds. So why the hell are they complaining. DL, CO, & NW have very little large
36 Horus : Thanks for the info UnitedTristar Horus
37 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Any time Horus! -m
38 MAH4546 : HA's 763ER can not make non-stop PEK or PVG from HNL with winter head winds. So why the hell are they complaining. HNL-PVG/PEK are well within the 763
39 Mattnrsa : Can anyone clarify how many slots will be awarded total in 2005? If it is only 7, then NW and UA are probably out of luck since they just received 7 e
40 PlaneGuy27 : Sales office means jack! 7 new weekly passenger frequencies are available in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 & 2010. NW and UA were already given an adva
41 Uadc8contrail : Sales office means jack! 7 new weekly passenger frequencies are available in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 & 2010. Planeguy27 is correct...look at what
42 Uadc8contrail : BURNSIE, i did some checking......ual has used 34R/16L IN A 400.....
43 SHUPirate1 : Am I psychotic, or am I reading in an official DOT document that states that UA has SFO-CAN route authority...here's what I am showing: NW: HNL/LAX/OR
44 Gigneil : They do have the authority, but are using all their frequencies to China on other routes presently. NW has DTW-PVG authorities as well, they used to f
45 SHUPirate1 : Gigneil-Maybe they forfeited it or something, I just double, triple, and quadruple-checked, and NW does not have DTW-PVG authority...
46 UAL777CONTRAIL : BURNSIE, I did some checking......ual has used 34R/16L IN A 400..... wouldn't that be obvious? Doesn't UAL/NWA use this as we speak? But what do I kno
47 NWAFA : SHUPirate1 With all due respect to you, NW DOES have the DTW-PVG route authority, its just not using it.
48 PlaneGuy27 : SHUPirate1, NWAFA is right - The China US market with the new agreement allows essentially for any authority between the US & China. The restrictions
49 JoFMO : I would say it depends a lot which aspects the DOT takes into account. UA offers them something what's new and therefore quite useful for American tra
50 Iowa744fan : Burnsie Also, now with NW joining SkyTeam, and since China Southern is a SkyTeam member obviously it seems that NW may know more then UA. Running a 75
51 Lj : SkyTeam has no members in Africa (Oneworld does not either and SAA is to join Star), South America, or Australia/Oceania. Skyteam will be the only all
52 MAH4546 : UA offers them something what's new and therefore quite useful for American travelers because CAN isn't already served directly from the USA. I China
53 Post contains images SHUPirate1 : Planeguy, NWAFA- I apologize for my misinformation...I realize now that I was looking at information dated November 1, 2003, and since then with China
54 Chinaeastern : As UA starts the service to CAN via NRT, NH should probably codeshare with UA instead of NRT-PVG themselves and then PVG-CAN codeshare with FM. it mak
55 Post contains images JC5280 : Can anyone tell me how to correctly pronounce Guangzhou?
56 Post contains images UAL777CONTRAIL : I thought it was gon-zoo, I may be wrong, but that is how I have always heard it. If I am wrong let me know, I am sure a NWA employee knows for sure h
57 Chinaeastern : 2 syllibus, the first "guang","g" pronounced as in "got", "u" as "ou" in "ouvre", "ang" as "an" in "chance"(british english), 2nd zhou. "zh" no equivi
58 UAL777CONTRAIL : Chinaeastern, I just failed your class. I was way off. UAL 777 CONTRAIL
59 JoFMO : I thought the names for Chinese and Japanese cities were translated in latin letters in the way an American/English native would pronounce them.
60 PlaneGuy27 : Iowa744fan, I think that Hainan Airlines will be the first "fourth Chinese passenger carrier in the market. Look for them to order 777's soon. I think
61 B2443 : try 'gwu-aang joe' for Guangzhou. 'zh' is very close to 'j' in English. No, the Chinese city names in English are translated from Chinese pin-yin (Chi
62 Mattnrsa : So if all additional slots to China over the next few years will go to new carriers, when will UA and NW be able to add flights over there?
63 Bobnwa : UA and NW have already been given additional slots.NW is using theirs to start Canton passenger service the end of OCT.
64 Mattnrsa : But what about flights in addition to what they will be starting this year? Do they have to wait until 2008 when all new carrier slots have been award
65 JoFMO : The new agreement between the USA and China allows unlimited code-shares. And UA has already an code-share agreement with CA, although CA doesn't use
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