Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
SFO Approach/Landing For Runways: 01R/L & 10R/L  
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

Last time I flew through SFO, I landed on 19R UA733, and departed on 10L UA777. This was due to an abnormal weather front moving through the area.

That said, I'm wondering if there are ever approaches/landings made on 01R/L & 10R/L. I've never seen this, and cannot find any photo in the database to suggest this ever happens. . .and if it does happen it has got to be less than once in a blue moon.

Has anybody some information regarding these approaches into SFO?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Aaron 747




Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4328 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I don't believe there are any standard approaches to 01R/L or 10R/L due to noise abatement and a flight path that would bring aircraft over very densely populated areas. During strong Santa Ana winds, arrivals sometimes come in on 19L/R and departures go out on 10L/R.

Are there any pilots or dispatchers at SFO who can advise otherwise?



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Approaches to 01L/R (in the rare event that the winds dictate them) are done as circle-to-land appoaches, i.e. you approach another runway (one of the 28's, usually) and then break-off to the left and and circle to land on the 01's...

You can see the same basic thing at MDW also. The Sears Tower out NE of the airport precludes a conventional SIAP, so they approach 31C (usually), break right, and and circle-to-land on 22L.

Back to SFO, take a look at the bottom of http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSFO to see the various approaches available. The absence of IAPs to the 01's (and only a couple of non-precision ones on the 10's) is more a function of terrain on that side of the airport than it is for noise abatement or overflying densely populated areas..

The low-level (relatively) yanking and banking involved with the circling approaches makes for some interesting photos..  Big grin



[Edited 2004-09-01 00:37:47]

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Very good info. Thanks for the responses.

"The low-level (relatively) yanking and banking involved with the circling approaches makes for some interesting photos.."

If only a spotter could photograph this 01 approach one of these days. . .that'd be something.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineRoots From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Since I moved to South San Francisco 5 yrs ago, I commute daily on 101 by SFO. During these years I've seen probably only 4-5 times when they landed on 1's and only 2-3 times that I can remember they landed on 10's.

Hopefully next time they do this, I'll be ready with my camera.

I met a photographer when spotting at SFO a while ago who had a photo of a DC-10 landing on 1R. The photo was uploaded to *the other* photo site but I can't find it now.



User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

>>>If only a spotter could photograph this 01 approach one of these days. . .that'd be something.

Be on the lookout for fall/winter cold fronts. Once they pass, winds out of anything from about 340-060 at speeds of 20-30 knots will usually drive them to use the 01's for arrivals...


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8023 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

I've lived in the area for years and only once when they were using the 19s for landing was the crosswind component on the 10s bad enough that they had to run departures off the 19s as well. Makes for great spotting fun as the 19L heavy departures bank a hard left as soon as they're airborne for terrain clearance.

Typically when we get weather bad enough that they turn the airport around, prevailing winds are out of the SE. 98% of the time this is the case, the 19s are for arrivals and the 10s for departures.




If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

Roots: Sounds good. I hope you catch one or two of these and submit it. . .it'd be a first on A.net. . .and probably a "highly viewed" one at that.

OPNLguy: I'm flying into SFO next month, so I'll be praying for these winds you speak of. Smile/happy/getting dizzy




Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

"Be on the lookout for fall/winter cold fronts. Once they pass, winds out of anything from about 340-060 at speeds of 20-30 knots will usually drive them to use the 01's for arrivals..."

Very good info, OPNLguy.
The fall/winter cold fronts, and associated low pressure systems from the Pacific generally move northwest to southeast. The pressure gradient will cause the winds to shift as the front draws nearer. So a normally north to northwesterly - off the Bay or the Pacific - breeze will shift southeasterly.
I've been at SFO several times during such weather. I've seen the 01's used once for arrivals, but the 10's during the others.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Aaron747: Thanks for the local insight. . .and the photo you took (seen in my original post) is grand. I have frequented this photo quite a few times now. Nice and clean. . .


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

I searched the photo database here using SFO as the airport, and 01L in the all fields, and came up with this one shot....

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/280166/M/

I did the same search with 01R, and I came up with many landing shots...

Note the deep blue skies in these shots, in the aftermath of the cold front that had come through. One photo notes that they only landed on the 01s for about an hour, and just as soon as the winds from the frontal passage die down, they'll get on a different runway configuration...


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

"You can see the same basic thing at MDW also. The Sears Tower out NE of the airport precludes a conventional SIAP, so they approach 31C (usually), break right, and and circle-to-land on 22L."

I've done this approach quite a number of times. . .no skimping on fuel during this approach pattern. .that's for sure. . .low and loud. What a spectacular way it'd be to fly into SFO using this similar approach. . .



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

"I searched the photo database here using SFO as the airport, and 01L in the all fields, and came up with this one shot...."

Great find OPNLguy. I overlooked that one. Too bad there isn't more scenery in that photo so that we can better orient ourselves. Rare shot indeed. . . Wish the photographer could've caught the final steep bank to the runway heading.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8023 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

I fear you may be a bit too early in the year for any hope at getting to land on the 1s DIA  Big grin

Glad you like the picture. They held us off at 7,000 feet, I just looked down and it was there.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Its actually the best time of the year right now to see the 1L/R approach. Its done during late summer when the Santa Ana type winds kick in. As most SF locals know we get Indian summer here which is right now.

Here is my personal favorite shot of 1R arrivals. An Alaska meeting in San Francisco.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang



On a note about 10L/R arrivals. Its mostly done in winter but is just as rare as the 1L/R approach. Mainly clear days with strong easterly winds. There is a GPS and VOR approach for 10L though.


ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8023 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

I'm still waiting for the indian summer to kick in.  Big grin

Had a couple days in the city the last week where we got over 80 but we're still in the 60s coast/70s bay/80s-90s inland/fog overnight and into midday typical summer pattern.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

Aaron....I have to agree! We need to get the warm weather to kick in. Maybe if we can get a nice high pressure system over Nevada we could get those NE winds and some 1L/R arrivals!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

>>>Maybe if we can get a nice high pressure system over Nevada we could get those NE winds and some 1L/R arrivals!

Wouldn't a high pressure system over Nevada result in NE "Santa Ana" winds for Southern California, and not Northern California?  Big grin

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/tg/whighlow/whighlow.htm

(Drag your cursor over the appropriate graphic...)


User currently offlineSfo212 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

The Runways 01s and 10s arrivals are very rare indeed. As has been previously mentioned, the 01s are used when there is a strong north offshore wind, usually accompanied by dry weather. Criteria I've heard the Tower used when offering it to pilots is when winds are anywhere from 350-050 over 20 knots. When those things happen, it is a spectacular day to watch the heavies perform the approach to the 28s and then circle to land by turning southbound and flying over the foothills as they prepare to make their final turn to the 1s. Quite often the tower advises of low altitude warnings as I assume they get pretty close to the rising terrain.

The 10s require a very strong easterly wind which is also rare, usually dry weather accompanies it. However, during one strong winter storm a couple of years ago the 10s were used for arrivals and departures. Problem was the cloud deck was quite low and there was no precision approach to the 10s. You could hear pilots being advised of low altitude alert as they came in through the gap to make the approach. The majority of them couldn't pick up the airport by the decision height or were too high on the approach when they broke out of the clouds and had to fly the missed approach. Eventually it got so bad that most everything diverted to OAK, SJC, SMF. Departures could go out, so by about 2 pm, all the terminals were deserted of aircraft but full of people. It was only a short term thing. A couple of hours later, the weather improved and everything came back in. Sure was interesting and unique though.

The 19s are used mainly during the winter when storms come through bringing southeast winds. Actually the term Norcal Approach uses is the Southeast Plan. The majority of time aircraft depart the 10s while arriving the 19s. However, on somewhat rare occasions the winds become so strong from the south that they depart and land on the 19s. Another amazing sight is to watch aircraft rotate off the 19s and climb rather fast and turn left to avoid the rising terrain.

One other note, you can tell when a storm front passes over the airport. Winds drastically change from the south to a strong westerly flow. Usually as the storm approaches the 19s are in use for landing and the 10s for takeoff. Once the front passes, the airport goes to a straight 28 operation.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6796 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

That pic that OPNLguy found of the 747 supposedly landing on 1L... I'm guessing that's a typo.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

No typo. As it mentions a rare landing on 01L, I'm assuming it's real...

Lot's of other photos in the DB of landings on 01R... It happens...


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8023 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Ahhh life is great here. Big grin

I love the Southeast plan. Many a time I've returned home from a weekend jaunt to LA in january and have been treated to the ILS 11 for OAK. If you've ever had the pleasure, better night views you won't find from inside a jetliner anywhere in the Bay Area. The ground track is almost straight over the north end of Yerba Buena Island (you can imagine the city vista), and coming in from San Pablo bay there are splendid views of the north bay and golden gate if the clouds permit. Seconds later you're over blackness of the bay again and shortly thereafter, landing light illuminated rocky crags and the end of rwy 11.




If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6796 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

"That pic that OPNLguy found of the 747 supposedly landing on 1L... I'm guessing that's a typo."

My point is, why would a 747 land on 1L (is it still 7000 ft for landing?) instead of 1R?


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

Presumably, he was light enough to use it....  Big grin

Otherwise, I dunno...  Big grin


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8023 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

Doesn't seem inconceivable to me timz. Dunno ff CI is one of them but a lot of the Asian cargo operators run a quick stop to SFO from LAX before continuing on to ANC.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
25 As739x : Timz...NO TYPO.....I was actually there that day! Its a freighter, 7,000ft is plenty. Lots of heavy's landed on 1L that day cause 1R is needed for dep
26 Timz : As I recall, arrivals on the runways 1 are told to start their turn to the south after the San Mateo Bridge (or maybe after the 6 DME, I forget). The
27 Anawat : I have witnessed it personally once in last 8 years of living in bay area. I was driving up on 101 N. I saw 747 (older one, not the 400) flying really
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Inflight (no)service For Y On US&UK Based Airlines posted Wed Oct 18 2006 06:59:50 by A3
Delta Approved For UK Route & Bucharest? posted Fri Aug 18 2006 00:04:59 by Alitalia744
EWR Aircraft Registrations For July 22 & 31st. posted Tue Aug 1 2006 17:03:03 by CX747
Think You Know SFO Approach Patterns? posted Fri Apr 14 2006 18:11:44 by Timz
D-ABIO Used By LH For Both 727 & 737? posted Sat Mar 18 2006 18:26:34 by PM
DFW Runways 31L/R & 13 R/L posted Mon Nov 21 2005 00:16:13 by Deltadude
AeroMexico Applies For ONT-Morelia & Leon/El Bajio posted Wed Oct 5 2005 22:36:36 by FATFlyer
DL Gets DOT Approval For CZM-LAX & SLC posted Wed Aug 31 2005 23:02:51 by PVD757
Here´s The Official Seat Plans For NZ 74R & 777 posted Fri Aug 5 2005 13:58:01 by TR
Gulf Air Looking For New Aircraft & Public Listing posted Tue May 24 2005 06:14:44 by MEA