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Major Restructuring Expected At UAL  
User currently offlineSpeedport From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 284 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7210 times:

UAL plans on cutting 6,000 employees and trim an additional 655m out of the operating budget. The plan will be released by the end of this month.

At the same time UAL announced it is recalling 375 FAs - a move which suggests an increase in flying.

Anyone care to speculate where the 6,000 and 655m will come from?

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/8585bc00-fb94-11d8-8ad5-00000e2511c8.html

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6917 times:

Domestic mainline operations, mainly sharp reductions or outright converstion to RJ service on marginally profitable or totally unprofitable routes. UA, like other legacy carriers, are getting their ass kicked domestically, the money just isn't there anymore.

Increased flying? 375 recalled F/A's? Yep. All international, Asia and Europe primarily. Depending on what happens at US, UA should pick up a lot of int'l. business out of IAD. I would also look for UA to restart IAD-MXP as well, based on what's going at AZ these days. Time will tell.



User currently offlineZID From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6917 times:

Hmmmm, maintenance maybe? It would be ironic if United axed their union mechanics in San Francisco, and outsourced the maintenance to AAR to perform most of the work at the old (Can you use the word old when describing a seven year-old state of the art facility?) United MOC II facility in Indianapolis.


I'm not joking! This is my job!
User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6888 times:

I feel sorry for the 6,000 cut employees. But, hopefully this will be worth it for UA in the long run.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6827 times:

Wow...one of the articles even mentioned that the 767-200 fleet could go! That's huge...I never would have guessed that...never heard of that idea before... Insane

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6769 times:

B767-200 is indeed going. The final pulldown will start in October as the reconfigured 3-class B757s are introduced on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons.

Indeed look for increased international flying. Some new destinations are in the works indeed in Europe. Dont hold your breath about MXP however.




From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6672 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

I've heard (rumor?) that all ramp work would be contracted out just like cargo and cabin services. Not sure how many total that works ramp but all together, it could come up to 6000. There are about 800 here at IAD and probably more at ORD and about the same at LAX and SFO.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineIL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6715 times:

I have always believed the best way for united to surivive was to reduce domestic operations and focus solely on expanding internationally. That's where the money is and where they have the ability to really expand their market share.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

I really hope that these changes work out for UA.

Lastly only for them to come back to AKL.


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

UAL Has job groups that are union ramp, they are called CG job group. They(UAL) have a lot of OLD CG stations with union ramp. They have already furloughed 18 CSR's out of SEA and 25 RAMP(CG) out of SEA as well. There are Old CG stations like OMA and such that will get the cut, there is NO need for a union ramp in stations like OMA. They wont cut the hub ramp, they will always stay CG. I feel in my heart they will cut many stations, thin Elk Grove, and cut smaller stations and expect more from their own employees.

I feel RES. Will take a hit as well, now 6000 jobs is a lot. Considering they are recalling about 200-250 pilots before year end, and now 200+ FA'S? It has to come from CS,MX,RES, and such. UAL Needs to eliminate a few VIP spots, free up some money that way.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

Related Article:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/8c0269ae-fb97-11d8-8ad5-00000e2511c8.html

The airline could also simplify its fleet of aircraft. “The 737-500 fleet could go, and the 767-200s,” said one person familiar with the discussions. “They are now looking at fleet types, rather than just focusing on a bottom-up approach, negotiating each individual aircraft deal one by one.

“But the network does not require a lot of restructuring. I don't expect major adjustments to hubs.”


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6637 times:

UA's domestic network needs to be focused on feeding traffic to its international routes. Trying to compete with the LCCs would be pouring good money after bad.

Outsourcing more maintenance is really the only low-hanging fruit left in terms of cost reductions.

There has been consideration of retiring the B767-200s for a long time. They have much higher seat mile costs than anything else in UA's fleet. About five years ago a plan was considered to move premium transcon services to A320s reconfigured with 20F. Looks like the B757 won out.

I agree that UA will see growth at IAD if US ceases operations first. Look for UA to take over US's FF program or at least comp status.


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

sforunner,
23 of the ual 737-500s are sched to be turned back to the leasing companies starting on the 8th.....i could see all the 37s going away and sticking with the bus on the narrow body side........



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Bad times. Bad news. One thing is for certain. UA looses 6000 clients that will avoid flying this airline. But UA must act hard to come out of Ch.11. Has any important airline ever spend so long a time under the rule of the bankcrupcy court?

That the 767-200s will be slashed soon is inevitable - one way or another - they´re mostly oldies with 20 years or even more tough service on their wings. Not much usable life left in them, especially in theses times we live in.


User currently offlineAZjetgeek From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 235 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

I wish UA all the success in the world in pulling itself out of Chapt. 11. That having been said, I would tend to agree with IL76TD's suggestion about reducing UA's domestic structure and focusing more on their international route system. UA paid $750 million in the mid-1980's to get Pan Am's Pacific routes. As IL76TD stated, international service is the money maker for UA.

On the surface, TED may have seemed to be a good idea to Tilton and his management crew, but it's not the niche Tilton's predecessors sought so many decades ago. Their previous efforts to compete in the LCC market have been failures. UA really cannot afford to compete with WN or B6 in the LCC arena. To do so, the airline would have to expand further and I would seriously doubt that the bankruptcy court would permit that, given UA's decision to stop making pension payments. You can't spend money you don't have.

My suggestion is for UA to sell much of its domestic routes to either HP, CO or NW. This would accomplish two goals: (1) Immediate injection of capital; (2) Stop the bleeding (losses) on many of UA's domestic routes.



Long live the RJ!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

The thing is, for the domestic routes you do not need to sell them, any carrier can fly them if they chose to. What the have that is worth something is some of the International routes to the slot restricted airports.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Some of you have no clue what you are saying.
AZJET,
You don't give up routes to get healthy. Why would you give up routes to only let your competitor take them over? That would be giving up market share and put us deeper in a hole.

NA,
They're now 6000 people are who anti-united? Are they going to be joining this site? 6000 people aren't going to be anti-united, most will hope they return to UAL. Most people who have flown UAL will continue to do so, after flying UAL you don't want to degrade yourself by flying CO or AA or DL now would you. Smile

SO IN SHORT, thank GOD none of these armchair ceo's have a say in the company, we would be gone for sure.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

The rumor I've heard around LAX is upward of 50 aircraft to be parked by December '04. Possibly the combination of 767-200s and 737-500s mentioned in the previous replies.


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineRwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 367 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Why not pull the 777's and 747's out of the desert and put them on international routes, and park domestic planes that are unprofitable and try and use US Air and TED as a feeder for their international routes when needed? United already have though such good routes for international flights...

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

And so UAL is the latest airline to decide that international routes will save the company. Get in line: EVERY legacy carrier has reached this same conclusion. US plans to rule the Caribbean; Delta is going to take over JFK and Latin America; AMR is upping the ante in the Pacific; CO is planning to put 757s at a bunch of mid-sized European cities; etc.

Having lost the domestic dogfight, UAL will now enter an international one. Good luck.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Why not pull the 777's and 747's out of the desert and put them on international routes, and park domestic planes that are unprofitable and try and use US Air and TED as a feeder for their international routes when needed?

I don't know why many people think that the solution is intercontinental traffic. Yields on US - Europe are already bad (and in some cases really bad) and US - Latin America/Asia/Pacific can only absorb x number of flights before yield will go down. Intercontinental traffic is only a money maker if, like any other market, you don't overflow the market (which is limited) with too much capacity. BTW aren't we forgetting that the reason why PANAM went bust was because they didn't have a domestic network and thus didn't have any feed???

Furthermore, how do you intend to attract a high yield interconitnental traveller if you use a LCC like TED as a feeder airline? Or do people really think that a passenger paying USD 4,000 for AMS-LAX-AMS doesn't mind to be in cattle class for two or more hours when he can fly C-class all the way with a competitor for the same price.

Outsourcing feed traffic to USAirways wouldn't be smart as I doubt the cost of the feed would far exceed the benefit (USAirways doesn't exactly hav e alow cost structure and giving a competitor a chance to steal your pax away isn't smart).


User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5486 times:

BTW aren't we forgetting that the reason why PANAM went bust was because they didn't have a domestic network and thus didn't have any feed???
----
Well, they did acquire a domestic airline (National, I believe) to try and fix this but the merger did not work out very well. So a case can be made that the management's botched efforts to fix this problem caused Pan Am's fall more than the problem itself did.

Nobody is suggesting that United abandon domestic flying, just to cut it back and reduce it to more of a feeder status. Another idea mentioned is to turn most of it over to lower cost subsidiaries (TED) or contractors("regional" airlines). These are viable ideas.


User currently offlineAZjetgeek From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 235 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

UAl777contrail - It's not necessary, nor is it respectful, to degrade others to make your point. Invoking the name of God to emphasize your point shows your character, or lack thereof. I have three words for you: GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!!

UA is rapidly closing in on the 24 month mark of being under the protection of Ch 11. Some here want to pin the blame on the unions. Others cite bad management practices. Pointing fingers of blame isn't going to get UA out from under Ch 11 any quicker.

Having difficulty obtaining wage concessions from employees is nothing new at UA. It's nothing new in the industry itself, especially among the major carriers. United's history and legacy are lengthy and sometimes very strange. If you'll recall, Dick Ferris was the first of the CEO's of the "Big Four" who broke away from the pack in the late 70's and supported deregulation.

In the late 80's, UA became the first of the majors to attempt to take on Southwest head-to-head in markets such as PHX and LAX with their ill-fated "Shuttle By United".

Despite all their efforts to regain the No. 1 position among U.S. carriers, UA remains No. 2. I admit I was wrong when I said UA could sell off some of its domestic routes. But I don't think I'm wrong when I suggest that they abandon some of their less profitable ones. When Gordon Bethune took over at CO, that is exactly what he did. He jettisoned routes that were losing money. He sought and found a niche in the domestic market - business travelers.

Glenn Tilton and his management cadre at UA need to re-define their niche. Is it international service, a la Pan Am, is it business class, such as CO, or is it the LCC market? UA cannot afford to try to be all things to all travelers.



Long live the RJ!
User currently offlineSpeedport From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

I agree with 777contrail, all ramp, except for the big hubs, will be contracted out.

AZ - you made your points well, but maybe PanAm isn't the best example to cite as a future business model.

MX - They have a big bull’s-eye on their back. MX at MIA will be phased out and most believe that UAL's MX operation will be patterned after WN. WN has over 70% of its maintenance contracted out with the rest at the terminal. Rumors have been flying - no pun intended - around the MX base at SFO. Some find it impossible to believe such a large operation will be closed down. I see that as wishful thinking. The same thing was said over the recently closed Indy MX base. They won't close Indy, they said; it’s too new, it’s too state of the art.

Res - they have had a bull’s-eye on their back for a while. The recent announcement by NWA to charge $5 for a RES booked ticket says it all. There will always be someone to man the phones - to handle problems and the like - however UAL will force the issue with web based E tickets. Up to now UAL has allowed a choice to book tickets, but no longer. If you want low fares, your choices will go the way of in-flight meal service. Those who have access to the web will have no problem. Those who don't will have to pay.

CS - More self check-in Kiosks and longer lines, .

Management - Don't hold your breath. Too many chiefs and not enough indians, you say? Well...some of the ivory tower chiefs will find themselves in front of the public more putting out the fires the indians once took care of. What is the difference between management and employees at a drug store? One wears a tie and the other doesn't. Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated.

I can see where the 6,000 will come from, my biggest question is where the additional 655m will come from.


User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5238 times:



>Anyone care to speculate where the 6,000 and 655m will come from?<

Reservations Call centers for one..............




Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
25 StevenUhl777 : Has any important airline ever spend so long a time under the rule of the bankcruptcy court? Yes...Continental...spent three years the 2nd time around
26 Speedport : Good point Steven. Love him or hate him, you have to agree that Mr. Tilton is effective at making the changes he wants to make. Sure...UAL has been in
27 Klwright69 : CO entered BK in Dec. 2, 1990. They exited in April 1993. That is 2 years and five months. Will UA stay in chapter 11 longer than CO? Only time will t
28 Post contains images AirEMS : Anyone know what impact this may have on DEN? Just living here and UAL being my favorite airline here and I do have alot of friends that work there I
29 StevenUhl777 : And so UAL is the latest airline to decide that international routes will save the company. Get in line: EVERY legacy carrier has reached this same co
30 Lat41 : Who knows the UA fleet consist at present?
31 The777Man : I think ALL of CG could go including hubs, that plus some cuts at ORD will make it 6000. When was at ramp at IAD in July, they were waiting for new un
32 Jfkaua : ahhh I sure do hope they stay up for I booked a trip to Florida on them for my family in Febuary just days before I joined this forum and was enlighte
33 Airfrnt : To answer the question about DEN and UA, I can not see UA shutting down DEN unless they are really really desperate. DEN's airport board has repeatedl
34 UAL777CONTRAIL : FROM THE 777MAN, I think ALL of CG could go including hubs, that plus some cuts at ORD will make it 6000. When was at ramp at IAD in July, they were w
35 Post contains links Speedport : Here are the numbers per UAL's COO Pete Mcdonald: 200m from maintenance 150m from airport operations (Ramp) 120m in sales and distrubution (CS) 60m fr
36 JC5280 : The 6000 number is speculation by the media because it sells. I challenge you to find any of the media text that quotes a UA rep mentioning the 6000 n
37 Speedport : Thanks JC. No one has yet to mention the C word - concessions. I am wondering what consideration, if any, has been given to further pay cuts. U air pi
38 MasseyBrown : StevenUhl and Klwright69, I didn't mean to imply all those airlines will be successful - just that they ALL are trying more international routes at th
39 StevenUhl777 : after they walked away from their Latin ops Huh???? They did? When....in the middle of the night? While they have all but abandoned flights out of MIA
40 The777Man : UAL777CONTRAIL: I can see an RR office or two going but not the whole department, at least not now. As for the res.center in Nova Scotia, they have MA
41 UAL777CONTRAIL : SPEEDPORT You said, No one has yet to mention the C word - concessions. I am wondering what consideration, if any, has been given to further pay cuts.
42 AirframeAS : I heard on the news (We all know that the news is a full bunch of idiot people when it comes to aviation, etc...) that UA plans to cut 6,000 employees
43 UAL777CONTRAIL : If they remove Tilton and the boys we are done. It is a plow in my opinion from the IAM to try and gain approval from us, that they are working for us
44 JC5280 : Too late....FWA, BMG and SBN have been closed for some time now. As far as the lawsuit goes, I have not heard that before. But I wouldn't rule any law
45 The777Man : JC5280: The reservations offices in SBN, FWA and BMG are still open, the only one in Indiana to close was INDRR. The777Man
46 Post contains images FriendlySkies : BUT...I also heard that if UA does go forward to the cuts, the workgroups involved with the cuts will sue the airline. Anyone know about this? If I'm
47 StevenUhl777 : If they remove Tilton and the boys we are done Damn right. If you work for UA today, you can thank Tilton and CFO Brace...remember how everyone though
48 UAL777CONTRAIL : StevenUhl777 said, UNITED WILL STAND...Thanks to Glenn Tilton, Jake Brace, and the THOUSANDS of dedicated, positive, professional employees who love U
49 MasseyBrown : StevenUhl: after they walked away from their Latin ops Huh???? They did? When....in the middle of the night? -----------------------------------------
50 Klwright69 : "CO: Continental and their 757's. EWR-EDI, big deal. Among others. Yawwwwwnnnnn.. They and NW and DL don't have the LHR slots like AA and UA do. Too b
51 UAL777CONTRAIL : MASSEYBROWN, They pulled the longhaul flights out of JFK, LAX, and MIA, the three BEST-BY-FAR Latin markets, and added a few flights from IAD and ORD.
52 Behramjee : Asian expansion is where the future high yield $$$ for UAL will come from especially now with CHINA and USA signing a breakthrough open skies treaty w
53 N79969 : United has remarkably endured some brutal economic circumstances. I feel confident that barring any other major disruption to air travel, United is go
54 AASTEW : Behramjee, Just some added facts, in reference to your unresearched posts. AA has service from NRT to LAX, SJC, DFW, ORD, and JFK. All are daily B777'
55 JoFMO : But SJO will be canceled till the end of the year.
56 Greasespot : They solution is simple....Just rewrite the MEL to let them defer everything until next heavy check. That way all the line maintenance people need to
57 Bmacleod : B767-200 is indeed going Same with AC. More 762s are headed to the desert as AC desperately attempts to get out of bankruptcy protection. The 763 is r
58 MasseyBrown : UAL 777 Contrail said: "Our pacific division is a lot more powerful than Latin ops ever was... Boy am I glad UAL focused more on Asia than South Ameri
59 Zvezda : UA used to see great First Class yields in Latin America. Eventually the customers caught on that, with UA giving out upgrades like candy, buying a Bu
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