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Union Want United Airlines Managers To Take Flight  
User currently offlineImonti From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4137 times:

Union wants United Airlines' management to take flight
September 1, 2004

Chicago - The leaders of United Airlines' flight attendants union on Tuesday said they have passed a resolution of no confidence in the carrier's management team and will actively seek their ouster.

Leaders of the Association of Flight Attendants put the bankrupt carrier's executives and its other stakeholders on notice that they would take all "necessary and appropriate legal steps" to replace chief executive Glenn Tilton and his management team.

"United Airlines senior management has attacked our wages, benefits and work rules; they've attacked our retirees; and now they've attacked our pensions," United Master Executive Council President Greg Davidowitch said in a statement.

"Yet, they have failed to accomplish what employees have been working to achieve - a successful exit from bankruptcy."

United's labour relations have been rocky for some time but appear to have soured completely over the issue of pension payments.

The number two US carrier skipped a pension payment in July, and then declared a indefinite moratorium on pension payments, before finally saying it expected to default on the plans altogether earlier this month.

The move incensed unions who have agreed to $2.5 billion (R16.6 billion) in annual wage savings since the number two US airline sought bankruptcy protection in December 2002.

Lambasting Tilton and his lieutenants for "gross mismanagement, incompetence and dishonesty," Davidowitch said they had squandered the goodwill of employees and lost the confidence of the rank and file.

The union did not formally poll its 21 000 members on the no confidence vote, but said informal canvassing of its members, over the Internet and through meetings, showed they were overwhelmingly in favour of the stance.

"We have concluded that there is no choice but to seek new leadership possessing the competence necessary to prepare a workable and fair business plan for the successful reorganization of our airline," Davidowitch concluded.

The AFA is United's second largest union after the IAM, or machinists union. - AFP

Sory for cutting off the Topic but it was too long to fit into the box. See the other story I posted about the job cuts.


18 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1809 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4092 times:

If Union leaders expect an airline to exit bankruptcy, save pensions, wages, jobs and benefits all without an inch of REAL sacrifice then it is those leaders that should fire THEMSELVES. It's impossible... The union in the end would put tens of thousands out of work with that kind of greedy, bigoted attitude.

And guess who will end up will million dollar severance pay when its all done, the airline executives. You think they give a damn... They reap the spoils success or failure... Unions should know this and try to end policy that cuts employees' own throats.

"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 days ago) and read 4043 times:

Agreed, Flybyguy. This press release is sickening. Also, how can you expect your pension to be preserved when you drove your company into bankruptcy? Uncle Sam better not pick up the $8 billion tab for the pensions, either. I don't want to pay for some sweet pension deal negotiated years ago on the planet Pluto for these people. Take risks and accept the consequences, UAL employees. I'm not your financial back-up.

EDIT: Sorry for the tone. A lot of people, a lot of good UAL employees, were caught totally off guard by this crisis. For them I feel really sorry. But for the union leaders / negotiators over the years, this crisis is by all accounts the result of their harmful influence, bringing UA's cost structure way out of line. Virtually 100% of so-called "airline experts" agree on that. I have yet to read any credible third party being critical of UAL corporate management or strategy.

[Edited 2004-09-01 17:00:57]

User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2051 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 days ago) and read 4024 times:
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Normally, I'm pretty supportive of UA staff, but I think the F/A's have just gone off the rail on this one. The F/A's are lashing out at management for the lack of any real alternative. The high spending business travelers that once kept all legacy airlines afloat are gone for good. The F/A's need to comprehend just how all pervasive this concept is. $1200-$1500 one-way fares, which used to be the backbone of all legacy airline revenue, are not coming back. Without this revenue stream, legacy airlines must defacto become LCC carriers or perish. Any airline employee who fails to recognize this is either a fool, or is dooming their airline to an early grave.

Traditional airline pensions are toast. Yes, they were once industry standard, but the rest of the business world realized that they were unsustainable in today's economy and slowly migrated to employee contribution based 401k plans. Only dinosaurs like the legacy carriers and a few other dying industries still cling to their old fashioned pension plans. Blaming management for facing the harsh cold reality of their situation is foolish at best, wreckless at worse.

But that's just my 2 cents.

It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 days ago) and read 4018 times:

The high spending business travelers that once kept all legacy airlines afloat are gone for good

Really, I don't fly UA, but I fly NW 90% of the time on a Y fare. I am sure I am not alone.

User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2051 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 days ago) and read 4003 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I don't doubt there are still business travelers such as yourself traveling on Y fares. But, if you look at markets where there is competition from LCC's, the average fare value on the Y fare has plummeted. Also, in LCC competitive markets, there are now lower one-way fares without any advance purchase. Look at the transcon... perhaps the biggest corporate market in the USA. The Y fare is still around $1500 o/w, however there are now walk-up fares without penalty that are as low as $599, a little more than a third of the price!

It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

All you have done for NWA is help refurbish their old DC-9's, and maybe send a few 57's to NRT(smart move). Smile


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Once again Unions are not LEADING thier members but dictating to them what the leadership thinks is good for them.

I wish the ALPA, IAM and AFA leadership could tell me which airline Unions have sucessfully run. Or which they have helped out of Chapter 11.

There are IAM members at other airlines now who are proud that they helped kill Eastern. This mentality is the NOW the leadership of these Unions. So shortsighted that they refuse to acknowlege the wishes of thier membership. We are the ones who are wrong.

User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

Sadly we as a group voted in this ignorant bunch to lead US. We(CSR's) saw a difference with the IAM and now I feel being so close to election time that the IAM has let me down. The IAM and AFA are an ignorant bunch of cowards that need to be stopped.


User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

All you have done for NWA is help refurbish their old DC-9's, and maybe send a few 57's to NRT(smart move).

thats an adult comment and educated one too....NOT!

Lets see here, thanks to DTWClipper (and by the way THANK YOU DTW) and people like him have done much more than that.

We are NOT in BK like YOU ARE
We are NOT loosing huge amounts of money like YOU ARE
We still have the highest load factors in the industry
We are making full payments on all our bills UNLIKE you are.
We are not laying off 6000 employees like YOU WILL.

User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Your comments hurt, please stop!!!

I have never wished to work for the red tails, and while you gloat about you old planes, paying bills, SMALL size difference in the pacific I cant help but wonder what will happen when UAL recovers and is a strong and viable airline AGAIN. Said we'd go away? We are still here, and we aint goin nowhere.

But again, please stop with YOUR adult responses.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10512 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

I never had any confidence in union management at UAL, but I lost confidence in Tilton when he didn't require Jake Brace's removal as a condition of accepting the job. Brace has done more damage to UAL than anyone -- except, of course, Rick Dubinsky.

User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8736 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Lot of babies crying in this one.

If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

What's everyone complaining about? It's just the standard procedure of the industry:

Airline starts operations with non-unionized employees
Airline is successful, unions notice
Unions persuade employees to join
Employees realize that the union doesn't help them
Union begins to control employees
Employees become hopeless and give into demands of union
Union uses employees to get the most out of the airline
Airline falls into hard times, files for Chapter 11
Union agrees to cuts, sits by idly for a few months
Union complains that airline management isn't doing anything
Union takes over airline
Airline fails, employees lose everything, unions go find a new airline to prey on

Seriously though, these damn unions need to get a grip. Maybe the represented employees should present a vote of no confidence in the union, because they (unions) sure as hell aren't helping the employees with these "progressive" ideas...

User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

I have heard this many times, I couldn't agree more.

your list hit it right on the head. I wish we wouldn't have been so foolish.


User currently offlineJC5280 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 530 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Lets keep in mind that this is NOT the Flight Attendants speaking, it is AFA.

AFA is puffing up its chest to attempt to show UA who is boss. The problem is, Tilton and his team are not taking @#$% from nobody no mo....


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3330 times:

JC5280, is exactly right. It is the AFA leadership not the flight attendants who are talking. Just as its Randy Canale and not the CS and Ramp employees talking.

Frankly I think more and more CSRs are sick and tired of having the Union take our money in dues every month and represent retirees NOT US crrent employees. And I have said so to our commitee person.

At this point there is a fifty-fifty mix of people who voted in this Union and those like me hired right after the vote who never got the chance to voice thier opinion I was required to join.

I think that Tilton and crew have done a magnificent job keeping UA running with the mess they found from Goodwin. F/A's are being recalled from furlough and the AFA is bitchin'.

FYI look for the Financial Times, thier article on the 6000 jobs being cut noted that the jobs will be lost to more efficent operations and there is no time tale for the job cuts. Meaning according to the article that Some will probably be lost to retirees that are not replaced, some will be due to fleet reductions, and some will probably be due to automation in reservations and check-in at the airport. AS Ua goes more web based in reservations and more kiosks and automated processes come on line Res and CSR's will not be replaced as they go from stations.

User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Wanna hear something funny. Over in FRA our US ramp guys are getting burned out from all the charters and being away from home. So UAL puts out a news real of letter to sups. That they need to start swapping these guys out. Now me being married and with children I didn't think twice about it, but uadc8contrail did, but only to find out a few days later they are sending retirees over to do our work. They said no to our active guys and are sending retired UAL employees over instead.

makes sense? gotta love the IAM for fighting UAL on that issue, like they have blinders on, or cant do two things at once.


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Not doubting you but how can a retiree be sent over to do the job, in FRA. First off, I would figure that German unemployement being what it is, Germany wouldn't allow US workers to come over to do a job in FRA.

Secondly, US retirees would have to move over to Europe to work. On a limited income that can be tough.

Lasty, are these retirees getting paid thier old payscale or being hired as new hires at the new station?

It just dosen't make sense to pay someone that much to go over there and do the job, when you could just hire German workers or contract out the extra work to LH.

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