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Beddoe States, Big News In The Future For Westjet!  
User currently offlineWJA73G From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 171 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

There are Rhumors circulating around WS that Clive, after the announcement for the -600s claimed that there was news of the same grandeur and more extravigant in the near future, one in particular that stands out for me is:

_______________ L O N D O N , E N G L A N D _______________

Dont Quote me on this one though...

What do you think of that, and What do you think the other news might be?

WJA73G

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

And they will fly the 73NG over to England from Canada?.. from where YHZ and YYT?

Good luck getting a slot in LHR.



User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4775 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Well, LHR is kind of doubtful...STN would make more sense. The 73G has enough range to make shorter transatlantic (LON, PAR) flights from YYZ or YUL, espescially the ones that have the winglets installed. I think it would be much more likely seeing SG start this type of service though.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

There certainly would be some kind of payload hit on a 73NG doing YULCDG or YYZSTN etc....



User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

London is within range for the 700's even from YYC, the westbound portion is a little more tricky but nothing that a stop along the way if required wouldn't solve...Given the option though I'd rather fly on something a little bigger. ETOPS will be a bigger problem then range for WJ, no histroy of it for them.

BTW Just wanted to thank WJA for coming out and observing the operation AGAIN this week!!! Must be doing something right if they keep sending people over to see what's going on at T3  Big grin



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Yeah, I'd figure there's no way it'd be LHR.

And if they do go for the necessary ETOPS certification for all this then of course they could fly to Hawai'i too.


YYZ-London would be out, even with winglets and even on just eastward runs alone (and who'd want to payload-restrict a 737NG, for a transatlantic flight? Yuck! So nothing doing there either).

Even YUL-London is probably a tad too far, at least for the westward return flight.

Maybe they'll go YYZ-YHZ-London (and if it goes well YUL-YHZ(or YYT)-London) instead.

Anyway it's an interesting new possibility for Westjet, they're really coming along in a very short time indeed


User currently offlineWJA73G From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 171 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

.. I dont know that this is all 100% out of the question..

What do you think the OTHER possibilities are for such big news, I did hear mention of Hawaii up there somewhere but what else could it be?

WJA73G


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4807 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5385 times:


When in doubt go to the Boeing web site. The range diagrams for the -700 would suggest that YYZ- any London Airport is quite doable without any penalty. The diagram shows BOS- Berlin plus a bit which is 3292 nm plus for a -700. YYZ- London is 3090nm . So it should work for better than 80% of the time, which I believe is the basis of the Boeing charts.
I don't know if WestJet has any ETOPS certified aircraft; if they don't this should not be difficult to remedy with future deliveries against their options.
According to http://gc.kls2.com/ the ETOPS requirement would be 120 minutes.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4969 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

If the B737 was a more feasible transatlantic aircraft, wouldnt it be doing more flying across the pond?

one thing for sure, WS is not getting access to LHR.



User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

Hmm... would the live tv on WS switch to EU broadcasting over Iceland? Big grin

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3077 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Ummmm westjet makes money by having as many departures a day as possible for each airplane. Flying one load a day to Europe and then one the next day will not make them money. If they do that with a 73ng then they will have to charge such a premium to make any money. There is a reason why the 73 is not a pond hopper. It Cannot carry enough people economically enough to make it feasible.

I will bet my Cat that west jet will NOT be going to Europe with it's present fleet.

Greasespot

[Edited 2004-09-02 03:51:22]


Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Probably not Trans-Atlantic, but maybe YVR/YYC-Hawai'i or Mexico? And if it is transatlantic, I'm betting YHZ/YYT-LON/DUB


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Hawaii has been in the rumour mill for years now. We'll be ETOP certified for flights to Hawaii by around January. Word around Harmony is that if they aren't making money by the end of 2004, they're going to shut down operations. If that's the case, that's 8 round-trip flights a week between YVR and Hawaii that'll need to be filled.

I highly doubt we'll fly anything transatlantic. My guess is Hawaii and perhaps a Carribean destination, such as PVR or CUN from YYC. However, since we're partners with Transat, that may be a no go since we fly to most Carribean destinations already for charters.

I was also told that our -600's would have winglets. Perhaps we are a launch customer or perhaps I was misinformed?



EH.
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

ETOPS will be a bigger problem then range for WJ, no histroy of it for them

Just read over that again, here's a question: How does an airline such as Harmony get ETOPs approval so quick but an airline like Westjet can't? I'm a little bit familiar with the process, but can someone provide me with a more detailed explaination?



EH.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Part of ETOPs certificiation is a history with either the operator, or the people responsible, as well as a history of ETOPS on the specific airplane in that country. Harmony with most of it's management being ex-C3, and using an airplane that has has ETOPS certification in Canada for many years would be more familiar with the ETOPS program and therfore more prepared for the certifications process, where as WJA has no history of ETOPS, and the 737 does not have ETOPS certification in Canada. As far as I know Harmony has not had an easy time of getting their ETOPS either, they have been in the process almost since the very beginning, they geared their original MTCE program towards ETOPS flying and so they were a bit a head of the game when it came to getting certification. Again WJA had up until recently never planned to even leave Canada and so the MTCE program that they (you) have doesn't have to meet all of the ETOPS requirements, so your process would be longer.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineJgardiner From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

Does any airline have a 737 with ETOPS rating?

User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

I believe some of Continentals 737's are ETOPS rated.


Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineAirportplan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

jgariner,

Many airlines around the world have 73s with ETOPs ratings. Here are just a few.

Aloha (Mainland US to Hawaii)
Continental (CO Micronesia from Guam to various Pacific destinations)
Privitair (Newark-Dusseldorf)
Virgin Blue (Australia to various South Pacific destinations)


User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

Aloha flies 737-700's YVR to Hawaii so why couldn't Westjet?



User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

Slawko, that's kind of what I thought. I remember talking to one of our mechanics a while back and our ETOP program (or reliability program, whatever you want to call it) was started when we took delivery of our first -700, or that's how I understood it. Nevertheless, we want our aircraft certified for ETOPS and Hawaii does look like a target destination when it does happen.


EH.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4908 times:

"Aloha flies 737-700's YVR to Hawaii so why couldn't Westjet?" Last I checked Aloha wasn't a Canadian Carrier with canadian registered aircraft, and a Canadian ETOPS certification.

Hawaii is also a difficult one because it requires a fairly high etops rating, dont recall how many minutes exactly, because there is nothing between HNL and YVR, opposed to the various options along the atlantic, or north pacific routes.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Hawaii requires either 160 or 180 min ETOPS, can't remember which.


EH.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

one thing for sure, WS is not getting access to LHR.

Why not? There is no bilateral restriction on a 2nd Cdn carrier into LHR, and there is no reeaon why cash-rich and profitable WS could not procure LHR slots. It would be nice to see a profitable & viable Cdn carrier fly into LHR.....

"Aloha flies 737-700's YVR to Hawaii so why couldn't Westjet?" Last I checked Aloha wasn't a Canadian Carrier with canadian registered aircraft, and a Canadian ETOPS certification.

That aside Slawko, Aloha did not commence ETOPS experience until they received their 1st 73G, akin to WS. Hence, however more labourious the Cdn ETOPS requirements may be, Hawaii or transat flights by WS could be feasible in the next 2-3 years.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCpt Underpants From Canada, joined May 2001, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

The biggest burden in achieving ETOPs certification is the requirements for the maintenance support program. Many of the maintenance manuals require a major re-write to get the certification. You can't get the certification until the maintenance end is done. Then, you have to fly your fleet on non-ETOPs routes for some time using the manitenance reliability program. Once this program shows that you have the required reliability, then you're on your way (assuming of course that the flight operations side has their ducks all lined up).

While it's not impossible, I'd be surprised if TC gave Westjet 180 minute ETOPs straight away. There's no ETOPs history with 737s in Canada, and TC usually wants the first operator to get their ETOPs in baby steps, with 90 minutes coming first, then 120, etc...

As for flying the UK with the 737NG, range would be the only concern. Lots of folks have crossed the pond in a single aisle airplane (757). I really don't see the difference.


User currently offlineKim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4705 times:

"London is within range for the 700's even from YYC."

I don't think so. That's 3800 nm and I believe that is just out of a 73G's range.

YYZ - LHR is certainly doable, but 120 ETOPS would be needed for the most optimal route. 90-ETOPS also makes the route doable, but it means they would have to cut slightly north closer to Greenland and Iceland to do it.


25 Whiteguy : I think Aloha had ETOPs before the 73Gs showed up. They used 732s from Hawaii to the US west coast.
26 Yyz717 : I think Aloha had ETOPs before the 73Gs showed up. They used 732s from Hawaii to the US west coast. No, Aloha never used 732's to the US west coast. N
27 Robsawatsky : Heh, I'm just saying if Aloha can do it with their 737-700's, why can't Westjet. I didn't mean they can just jump in and start tomorrow, obviously the
28 PANAM_DC10 : Westjet has done very well with their fleet plan and the 737NG series. With their domestic marketshare could they consider operating widebodies if the
29 Whiteguy : My mistake, I did a little research. Aloha didn't start flying to the west coast until 2000 with the 700s. There are pictures of Alohas 200s in Oaklan
30 CanadaEH : While it's not impossible, I'd be surprised if TC gave Westjet 180 minute ETOPs straight away. There's no ETOPs history with 737s in Canada, and TC us
31 Frmyqr : The major guesses seem to be an international destination over water. Does this mean WS is happy with it's domestic program and won't be expanding in
32 CanadaEH : Rumours are nothing more than speculation. I personally don't expect any announcement of transatlantic expansion. There are still more point-to-point
33 Bwaflyer : Just to let you know that we at Astraeus have just got our ETOPS certification, and will be flying 737-700s from Gatwick to Deer Lake, Canada every we
34 Goose : I personally don't expect any announcement of transatlantic expansion. There are still more point-to-point routes to be developed within Canada and pl
35 Samurai 777 : I personally don't expect any announcement of transatlantic expansion. There are still more point-to-point routes to be developed within Canada and pl
36 CanadaEH : WestJet doesn't have combi aircraft in the fleet, though, so their ability to "fall back" on cargo like First Air and Canadian North do wouldn't be as
37 CanadaEH : I feel the same way. I don't see anything as outrageous as transatlantic service happening for WS. I'd think most likely more new routes into the US,
38 Goose : I'd say that maybe we'd keep a few -200's and convert them into combi's but that would just keep our costs higher by keeping only a few -200's in our
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