22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 417 posts, RR: 1 Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5853 times:
I was wondering if airlines customarily retire Flight numbers for flights that have crashed. For example I searched UA and AA websites for numbers 175, 93 and 11,77,587 respectively and came up blank. Those, for obvious reasons, they would want to retire.
But is this a typical thing?
"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
Corpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5486 times:
AA001 Crash on March 1, 1962: (From NTSB Website)
NTSB Identification: NYC62A0022
14 CFR Part 121 Scheduled operation of AMERICAN AIRLINES INC
Event occurred Thursday, March 01, 1962 in JAMAICA, NY
Aircraft: BOEING 707, registration: N7506A, Flight No.: 001
LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA F S M/N PURPOSE JAMAICA,NY BOEING 707 CR- 8 0 0 SCHED DOM PASSG SRV AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE TIME - 1009 N7506A PX- 87 0 0 56, 18300 TOTAL HOURS, DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 1600 IN TYPE, INSTRUMENT RATED. NAME OF AIRPORT - NEW YORK INTL OPERATOR - AMERICAN AIRLINES,INC. DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION JAMAICA,NY LOS ANGELES,CALIF TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION COLLISION WITH GROUND/WATER: UNCONTROLLED IN FLIGHT: CLIMB TO CRUISE PROBABLE CAUSE(S) SYSTEMS - FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEMS: RUDDER AND RUDDER TAB CONTROL SYSTEM MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - MATERIAL FAILURE FIRE AFTER IMPACT REMARKS- RUDDER CTL SYS MALFUNCTION PRODUCED YAW,SIDESLIP AND ROLL,LED TO LOSS OF CTL.RECOV ACTION INEFFECT
This is from a flightview.com:
Flight Number 1 (AA1)
Airport: New York (Kennedy), NY
Scheduled Time: 9:00 AM, Sep 02
Actual Time: 9:14 AM, Sep 02
Airport: Los Angeles, CA
Scheduled Time: 11:38 AM, Sep 02
Actual Time: 11:16 AM, Sep 02
Funny how it's even the same (very similar) route!
[Edited 2004-09-02 21:13:38]
If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5461 times:
Because of the improvements in communication, aviation accidents are much more discussed in the news (and places like a.net) for a longer period of time, whereas accidents from the 1960's and 1970's did not stay in public view as long, nor were the flight numbers as important in reporting. For example, how many people could tell me (without looking it up!!) the flight number of the TWA 727 that crashed on approach to IAD in December, 1974? A few, perhaps, but not a large number.
The first crashed flight number I remember being an integral part of the story would be PSA 182 in San Diego, CA, in September, 1978, because of the dramatic and horrifying pictures. The same story with AA 191 at O'Hare in May, 1979. It seems to me that after these accidents, it became standard operating procedure to talk about the accident by flight number, not just airline. For example, mention United 232, and most a.net members will know July, 1989, Sioux City, Iowa.
Eastern Airlines kept flight #401 after the December, 1972 accident. Same plane, same route, same flight number. Obviously, if people had misgivings about that flight number, they would have discontinued it. Modern times, however, seems to dictate a complete change of numbers when an accident has happened.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Clipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 675 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5334 times:
Not to get off the subject but I had the distinct displeasure of having watched Eastern 66, B727 MSY/JFK as it hit the ILS approach posts on approach to rwy22R and then burst into flames as it slid down the runway. It was a very morbid sight knowing that individuals definitely survived the crash only to be burned to death. Eastern changed the flight number the very next day. That was back in the early 80's while I was still at JFK. I had just pulled onto the rooftop parking at the Pan Am UTB or Worldport as it was called and parked in front of the fence pointing to the East. The entire saga was right in front of me. Several days later when the a/c had been repositioned to our Hgr 17, several of us went over to see it following our afternoon shift. I took one lok at the sheered off cockpit and turned away. The Captain and Co-pilot had been decapitated which would explain the lack of any radio transmission following initial impact. It took quite a while to get those sights out of my mind and unfortunately I have witnessed several other fatal crashes since. When you get to spend you entire career at JFK and MIA, there are bound to be times that you just can't away from it.
Clipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 675 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5208 times:
They were decapitated when the top of the fuselage was peeled back as it went under the ILS pier. And it was a classic case of a microburst. The other one I was involved with our 727 at Kenner, LA on takeoff from MSY and hit a microburst and went straight in.
Flybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1796 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5073 times:
I don't think the general public remembers of incidents and flight numbers that are over a decade old, probably even some more recent events. My own parents and brother would step on an Egyptair 990, Swiss 111, or AA 587 knowing none the better.
The aviation enthusiast, however, would remember every aircraft, flight number, and aircraft type of every commercial airline incident since the inception of air travel.
Airlines will find little danger in recycling old flight numbers from old incidents if they happen to practice such policy.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
25 CO2BGR: TWA # 800 has crashed twice, once just after leaving JFK which we most know all too much about. The other was a 707 flying within europe in the 70's I
26 Ramerinianair: Flight 1 on most airlines is reserved for service that utilizes their flagship A/C, has a high yield or that connects two large hubs. ie. JFK-LAX on A
27 Milesrich: The first TWA 800 crash, a 707, did so in Rome on a flight to Athens, in about 1965when an engine warning light came on, they tried to abort and hit a
28 Deltabobo: BA 223 was a 747-400. Thats what I saw on the news.
29 SFO2SVO: Sibir (S7) have not retired flight 1047 (yet?) I think they have done it after accidents before...
30 AirframeAS: After AS had the crash on January 31, 2000 which was flight 261, they retired the flight number the very next day and switched it to flight 262.