Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Do Airlines Retire Flt #'s After A Crash?  
User currently offline22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 420 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6271 times:

I was wondering if airlines customarily retire Flight numbers for flights that have crashed. For example I searched UA and AA websites for numbers 175, 93 and 11,77,587 respectively and came up blank. Those, for obvious reasons, they would want to retire.

But is this a typical thing?


"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrettbrett21 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6162 times:

From what I've heard this is usually what is done. I don't think you'll find a flt 911 either and BA have retired 223 after something to do with terrorism (can't quite remeber what though).

If anyone can remeber im sure they'll tell.

Brett



i'm so excited i wish i could wet my pants!
User currently offlineRwylie77 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 367 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6155 times:

You can understand why after they get so much publicity - I certainly wouldn't want to fly on a Swiss Air flight 111....

User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8546 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6132 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I understand it's a given that the airline retires the flight number after a fatal accident,IMHO a good thing to do,a sign of respect for those who lost their lives in a tragic accident.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6129 times:

Brettbrett21

BA retired flight number BA223 because this was the flight number which was consistently cancelled towards the end of last year due to terrorism fears. (LHR - IAD)

Mark


[Edited 2004-09-02 18:58:37]


Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offline22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

You can understand why after they get so much publicity - I certainly wouldn't want to fly on a Swiss Air flight 111....

Dont you worry... it wont be possible to do that anymore for other than that one reason. Big grin



"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
User currently offlineBrettbrett21 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

7LBAC111

Cheers for that, sorry the reason slipped my mind.

Brett



i'm so excited i wish i could wet my pants!
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

This has been discussed at length many times in quite a few forums and no new information ever comes up. Do a search on the topic.

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3486 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6086 times:


I remember Egyptair has changed the JFK-CAI flight number from MS990 to MS9** after the B763 crash. They maintained MS843/844 for TUN although the B735 crash...



User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

I remember back in the early 70's when we were putting 707's all over the place, we did not change the flight numbers. But when Pan Am 103 was blown up we changed the flight number the very next day.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5931 times:

Didn't AA1 once have a crash, and they kept the number?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5904 times:

AA001 Crash on March 1, 1962: (From NTSB Website)

NTSB Identification: NYC62A0022
14 CFR Part 121 Scheduled operation of AMERICAN AIRLINES INC
Event occurred Thursday, March 01, 1962 in JAMAICA, NY
Aircraft: BOEING 707, registration: N7506A, Flight No.: 001

LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA F S M/N PURPOSE JAMAICA,NY BOEING 707 CR- 8 0 0 SCHED DOM PASSG SRV AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE TIME - 1009 N7506A PX- 87 0 0 56, 18300 TOTAL HOURS, DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 1600 IN TYPE, INSTRUMENT RATED. NAME OF AIRPORT - NEW YORK INTL OPERATOR - AMERICAN AIRLINES,INC. DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION JAMAICA,NY LOS ANGELES,CALIF TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION COLLISION WITH GROUND/WATER: UNCONTROLLED IN FLIGHT: CLIMB TO CRUISE PROBABLE CAUSE(S) SYSTEMS - FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEMS: RUDDER AND RUDDER TAB CONTROL SYSTEM MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - MATERIAL FAILURE FIRE AFTER IMPACT REMARKS- RUDDER CTL SYS MALFUNCTION PRODUCED YAW,SIDESLIP AND ROLL,LED TO LOSS OF CTL.RECOV ACTION INEFFECT

This is from a flightview.com:

American Airlines
Flight Number 1 (AA1)
Departure
Airport: New York (Kennedy), NY
Scheduled Time: 9:00 AM, Sep 02
Actual Time: 9:14 AM, Sep 02
Arrival
Airport: Los Angeles, CA
Scheduled Time: 11:38 AM, Sep 02
Actual Time: 11:16 AM, Sep 02
Status: Landed
Equipment: B762

Funny how it's even the same (very similar) route!




[Edited 2004-09-02 21:13:38]


If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5896 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I flew on a UA 232 for ORD-PHL 2 years ago


Made from jets!
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5890 times:

Also Avianca 11:

Crashed in 1973 (or 83) in the mountains near Barajas.

They still operate the flight, same route... except that Flight 11 is now MAD-BOG, instead of BOG-MAD.

Edit: Confirmed... it was 1983

[Edited 2004-09-02 21:19:27]


If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Because of the improvements in communication, aviation accidents are much more discussed in the news (and places like a.net) for a longer period of time, whereas accidents from the 1960's and 1970's did not stay in public view as long, nor were the flight numbers as important in reporting. For example, how many people could tell me (without looking it up!!) the flight number of the TWA 727 that crashed on approach to IAD in December, 1974? A few, perhaps, but not a large number.

The first crashed flight number I remember being an integral part of the story would be PSA 182 in San Diego, CA, in September, 1978, because of the dramatic and horrifying pictures. The same story with AA 191 at O'Hare in May, 1979. It seems to me that after these accidents, it became standard operating procedure to talk about the accident by flight number, not just airline. For example, mention United 232, and most a.net members will know July, 1989, Sioux City, Iowa.

Eastern Airlines kept flight #401 after the December, 1972 accident. Same plane, same route, same flight number. Obviously, if people had misgivings about that flight number, they would have discontinued it. Modern times, however, seems to dictate a complete change of numbers when an accident has happened.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5860 times:

Isn't there an urban legend out there about the "ghost of flight 401"?


If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Not to get off the subject but I had the distinct displeasure of having watched Eastern 66, B727 MSY/JFK as it hit the ILS approach posts on approach to rwy22R and then burst into flames as it slid down the runway. It was a very morbid sight knowing that individuals definitely survived the crash only to be burned to death. Eastern changed the flight number the very next day. That was back in the early 80's while I was still at JFK. I had just pulled onto the rooftop parking at the Pan Am UTB or Worldport as it was called and parked in front of the fence pointing to the East. The entire saga was right in front of me. Several days later when the a/c had been repositioned to our Hgr 17, several of us went over to see it following our afternoon shift. I took one lok at the sheered off cockpit and turned away. The Captain and Co-pilot had been decapitated which would explain the lack of any radio transmission following initial impact. It took quite a while to get those sights out of my mind and unfortunately I have witnessed several other fatal crashes since. When you get to spend you entire career at JFK and MIA, there are bound to be times that you just can't away from it.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

How were they decapitated?


If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

Wasn't EA 66 a victim of microburst?


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineKYAir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

TWA kept flight #800 (at least for awhile) because their New York/Paris flight had had that number since 1947 or 48.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.



Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

They were decapitated when the top of the fuselage was peeled back as it went under the ILS pier. And it was a classic case of a microburst. The other one I was involved with our 727 at Kenner, LA on takeoff from MSY and hit a microburst and went straight in.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

Rwylie77,
You can understand why after they get so much publicity - I certainly wouldn't want to fly on a Swiss Air flight 111....

Excuse my ignorance, but why not?

7LBAC111,
BA retired flight number BA223 because this was the flight number which was consistently cancelled towards the end of last year due to terrorism fears. (LHR - IAD)

Do they still havve problems with the flight that replaced it? Also, what aircraft did they operate on the flight?


User currently offline22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

QR332 wrote:

Rwylie77,
You can understand why after they get so much publicity - I certainly wouldn't want to fly on a Swiss Air flight 111....

Excuse my ignorance, but why not?


I am not sure if you are asking this because you dont know about about Swissair 111. If so, please see:

http://aviation-safety.net/backgrounder/index.shtml

and click on Swissair 111




"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
User currently offlineBrettbrett21 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

QR332

I'm pretty sure it was a 777.

Brett



i'm so excited i wish i could wet my pants!
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5491 times:

I don't think the general public remembers of incidents and flight numbers that are over a decade old, probably even some more recent events. My own parents and brother would step on an Egyptair 990, Swiss 111, or AA 587 knowing none the better.

The aviation enthusiast, however, would remember every aircraft, flight number, and aircraft type of every commercial airline incident since the inception of air travel.

Airlines will find little danger in recycling old flight numbers from old incidents if they happen to practice such policy.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
25 CO2BGR : TWA # 800 has crashed twice, once just after leaving JFK which we most know all too much about. The other was a 707 flying within europe in the 70's I
26 Ramerinianair : Flight 1 on most airlines is reserved for service that utilizes their flagship A/C, has a high yield or that connects two large hubs. ie. JFK-LAX on A
27 Milesrich : The first TWA 800 crash, a 707, did so in Rome on a flight to Athens, in about 1965when an engine warning light came on, they tried to abort and hit a
28 Deltabobo : BA 223 was a 747-400. Thats what I saw on the news.
29 SFO2SVO : Sibir (S7) have not retired flight 1047 (yet?) I think they have done it after accidents before...
30 AirframeAS : After AS had the crash on January 31, 2000 which was flight 261, they retired the flight number the very next day and switched it to flight 262.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Do Airlines Retire More Than Add More! posted Wed Oct 17 2001 01:42:23 by SAAB340
Do You Get Nervous After A Crash? posted Wed Jun 27 2001 17:50:50 by VgnAtl747
Why Do Airlines Retire Their MD 11s? posted Thu Mar 29 2001 20:13:57 by United Airline
Why Do Airlines Cover The Titles After An Incident? posted Wed Feb 2 2005 19:33:12 by MADtoCAE
Do Airlines Show Plane Crash Films? posted Sun Sep 16 2001 01:46:18 by GUNSMOKE
Do Airlines Keep Spare Planes? posted Wed Nov 22 2006 14:45:59 by JAM747
Why Do Airlines Offer Such Odd Routings posted Sat Nov 4 2006 07:17:32 by RJpieces
Why Were Airlines Discontinuing Routes After 911? posted Fri Oct 20 2006 19:11:30 by 8herveg
What Do Airlines Look For In New Pilots? posted Fri Aug 4 2006 16:18:13 by BowflexBrennan
How Do Airlines Choose A Used Airplane? posted Tue Aug 1 2006 07:39:49 by Jlbmedia