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Boeing Using NWA Trans-pac A332's As 7E7 Promotion  
User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

7E7 rival comes to Northwest. Airbus A330-200 rolled out for show in Portland. PORTLAND -- The Airbus jet that will be the chief challenger to Boeing's 7E7 entered service here yesterday for the first time with a U.S. customer.
Northwest Airlines is using the A330-200 for non-stop daily operations between Portland and Tokyo. The planes replace older Northwest DC-10s that have been used on that route since June. San Francisco and then Seattle will be next to get the twin-engine Airbus plane.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/189010_airbusjet02.html

But now this, Boeing is using this introduction as 7E7 promotion!

Todd Blecher, a Boeing spokesman, said the introduction of the rival Airbus is part of a new era in air travel that will feature smaller, more fuel-efficient planes that can provide international service to smaller airports or markets, such as Portland. Blecher said Boeing already has orders for its new 7E7 line, with the first delivery expected in 2008. The new Boeing aircraft will compete with the Airbus model for long-range flights. "They will provide airlines a tool to open city pairs like Portland and Tokyo, or any number of city pairs around the world, by bringing the range and efficiency to smaller airplanes that had only been found on larger airplanes," Blecher said.

http://www.tribnet.com/business/story/5498138p-5436120c.html

Seems odd & opportunistic way of promotion but does he have a point ?

P.S. A330 at Portland ..
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=350160&PHPSESSID=93cdd2868b5db3341c955edec63114a8


27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11853 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7581 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I think the Boeing person does have a point as the B7E7 will open up long haul markets for smaller airport. B7E7 customers will be able to offer their customers point to point services instead of going throu a major hub.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

I think this makes sense. In its marketing Airbus likes to argue that its 4-engined A340-series are more appropriate for long-haul flying than the 2-engined B777. Airbus argued against the B777 getting an extenstion of up 207-minutes in the North Pacific. But now a 2-engined Airbus is being used for an ETOPS operation that involves flying across the North Pacific. You don't hear much of the "4-engines-4-long haul" out of Airbus right now.

The use of the relatively small A330 actually bolsters Boeing's idea of fragmentation. The A330 is an excellent airplane because its excellent range/payload performance on long-thin routes. The kind of routes which Boeing is targeting for the 7E7 and to a lesser extent the 772ER.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9110 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7501 times:

So when will NWA retire their last DC 10?

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7050 times:

Boeing belives in point-to-point with 7e7

Airbus belives in hub-to-hub with 380

What is this Boeingperson trying to say?

Micke/SE  Insane *jeeeehhhh*



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7005 times:

Under the Airbus hub-to-hub theory, a passenger would fly from PDX to LAX/SFO to board an A380 bound for Tokyo.

Under the fragmentation line of thinking, consumers prefer direct flights from origin to destination. The use of an A330 between Tokyo (a hub) and a Portland (a secondary city) supports Boeing's view of the future.



User currently offlineJeffrito From United States of America, joined May 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

... but does he have a point ?

Yep


User currently offlineRadelow From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

What I think this shows is that there will be a place for BOTH. There will *always* be a need for a large aircraft moving from congested big airport to congested big airport. The 7E7 at the same time will be moving people from small city to big city. I think it will end up being a good mix. I think the 7E7 will particularly shine in the very dense countries of Asia where there are many large cities with no necessary a huge amount of traffic moving between... Just my $0.02.

Mark


User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1896 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6802 times:

"Liu said she was uncomfortable talking about the $80 million figure, but she did not deny that is what Northwest paid for the plane."

-Laura Liu, vice president of international marketing and revenue for Northwest.

The list for the A332 is $146.5 million to $153 million. Shit, at those prices, I'll take two.

 Smile
George



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

Funny thing about the hub-to-hub comments is that neither LAX nor SFO are a hub to any airline that will be flying the A380 to those airports. So there goes that theory. In fact, except for LH, no airline that has ordered the A380 has more than one hub.

The A380 will be used between major airports that have certain limitation when it comes to increasing frequency of flights, regardless of whether it is a hub or not.


User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6749 times:

Funny thing about the hub-to-hub comments is that neither LAX nor SFO are a hub to any airline that will be flying the A380 to those airports. So there goes that theory.

Well LHR will soon be stuffed with A380's & not only VS ones..

I think both p-to-p & h-to-h will grow.

Traffic is forecasted to grow 5%/yr, the Hubs are still growing & somehow ....

I cannot believe the 1000+ B747's will all be replaced by smaller aircraft...
but don't nail me down on that one..

 Smile



User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

There is more than sufficient room in this world for both strategems.

Both point-to-point and aggregated traffic will grow, and both the 7E7 and 380 will be the pinnacle of technology in those spaces.

Eventually, Airbus will compete with the 7E7, and Boeing the 380, and yay we'll have all new aircraft in both major spaces.

When Airbus and Boeing compete, you win.

N


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6343 times:

Or could it be a clue that NW has already bought the 7e7  Wow! It could happen, it might just happen.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6256 times:

I sure hope not..I really do like the A300-200 flying in NWA colors out of PDX..

User currently offlineMSPXJGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 150 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

I doubt NW bought the 7E7 but Im sure they're paying close attention to it. It would work well with their Asia network. They could very easily throw a 7E7 from point to point service from their North American hubs and rely less on NRT. I don't know if this will happen or not. NW is in love with their hub model but lately they have been straying a little bit with setting up focus cities in MKE, IND, and GRR

User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

To get back on track...


what the Boeing guy is saying is that the A330 is in the same general sector that the 7E7 is aimed at. Therefore the 7E7 is justified by the routes and capacity already in service, and presumably Boeing's product will be able to match and surpass the economics of the A330.

So the 7E7 isn't just a speculative design; it's based on sound economics and existing movements in the airline industry.


User currently offlineFrontiers4ever From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

"Airbus argued against the B777 getting an extenstion of up 207-minutes in the North Pacific"

I thought they were looking for a 330 minute ETOPS for the 777-300ER

-Frontiers4ever



Until you prove, your right, your wrong
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

....they are, eventually.

User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

Well, LAX and SFO are hubs for UA, LH's STAR partner. What airbus means by hub to hub flying is PAX connecting from domestic flights (with whoever) to international flights (with whoever) in major cities with very busy airports


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Sounds to me like the end of Huge Fortress hubs. This has the potential to be the introduction of point to point flying again. Any thoughts?
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3239 times:

NW is pretty stupid for replacing a 747 on their SEA-NRT route, a flight that has been in place for a very long time, with an airbus.

Even the local media here (at least KOMO-TV) openly criticized the use of an Airbus on a flight out of Seattle.

If NW want to continue being profitable on this route, they'll need to replace it with a BOEING built aircraft.


User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3136 times:

I might be wrong, but one of the reason why the flight was downgraded in Seattle was the start of the Narita flight from PDX.

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2956 times:

What the 332 & 7E7 do in Asia will allow large-hub to medium-size cities in Europe & N.America. In Asia, each country with the exception of China is dominated by one large city. Singapore-Singapore, Tokyo-Japan, Seoul-S.Korea, etc. Even China, int'l services are currently dominated by Beijing & Shanghai. The demographics in Europe and US are not concentrated in one city so the 767-sized airplane ruled from the mid-80s on. Both Boeing's 7E7 and Airbus A380 will be market hits come 2015.

If someone is unhappy with NW's 332 service out of SEA to NRT then use the UA's 777 flight. UA will be more than happy to have their business.


User currently offlineMalb777 From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

So when will NW resign the DC9?


thank god i was not born a bird. this type of flying is much better
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

If NW want to continue being profitable on this route, they'll need to replace it with a BOEING built aircraft.

Can you imagine the same thing being said in the mdia about Boeing flying to "Airbus home" airports ?

I can´t.



25 Vatveng : So when will NW resign the DC9? wow, it took 23 whole replies for this to come up... must be a record!
26 SupraZachAir : Can you imagine the same thing being said in the mdia about Boeing flying to "Airbus home" airports ? I can´t. I can't either... Very few people in S
27 Spk : Long-haul operations to smaller airports is a nice idea but there are other factors than the aircraft specs that the airline must consider. Handling o
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