KEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7071 times:
7E7 rival comes to Northwest. Airbus A330-200 rolled out for show in Portland. PORTLAND -- The Airbus jet that will be the chief challenger to Boeing's 7E7 entered service here yesterday for the first time with a U.S. customer.
Northwest Airlines is using the A330-200 for non-stop daily operations between Portland and Tokyo. The planes replace older Northwest DC-10s that have been used on that route since June. San Francisco and then Seattle will be next to get the twin-engine Airbus plane. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/189010_airbusjet02.html
But now this, Boeing is using this introduction as 7E7 promotion!
Todd Blecher, a Boeing spokesman, said the introduction of the rival Airbus is part of a new era in air travel that will feature smaller, more fuel-efficient planes that can provide international service to smaller airports or markets, such as Portland. Blecher said Boeing already has orders for its new 7E7 line, with the first delivery expected in 2008. The new Boeing aircraft will compete with the Airbus model for long-range flights. "They will provide airlines a tool to open city pairs like Portland and Tokyo, or any number of city pairs around the world, by bringing the range and efficiency to smaller airplanes that had only been found on larger airplanes," Blecher said. http://www.tribnet.com/business/story/5498138p-5436120c.html
Seems odd & opportunistic way of promotion but does he have a point ?
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11316 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6945 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
I think the Boeing person does have a point as the B7E7 will open up long haul markets for smaller airport. B7E7 customers will be able to offer their customers point to point services instead of going throu a major hub.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6893 times:
I think this makes sense. In its marketing Airbus likes to argue that its 4-engined A340-series are more appropriate for long-haul flying than the 2-engined B777. Airbus argued against the B777 getting an extenstion of up 207-minutes in the North Pacific. But now a 2-engined Airbus is being used for an ETOPS operation that involves flying across the North Pacific. You don't hear much of the "4-engines-4-long haul" out of Airbus right now.
The use of the relatively small A330 actually bolsters Boeing's idea of fragmentation. The A330 is an excellent airplane because its excellent range/payload performance on long-thin routes. The kind of routes which Boeing is targeting for the 7E7 and to a lesser extent the 772ER.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6369 times:
Under the Airbus hub-to-hub theory, a passenger would fly from PDX to LAX/SFO to board an A380 bound for Tokyo.
Under the fragmentation line of thinking, consumers prefer direct flights from origin to destination. The use of an A330 between Tokyo (a hub) and a Portland (a secondary city) supports Boeing's view of the future.
Jeffrito From United States of America, joined May 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6210 times:
Radelow From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6180 times:
What I think this shows is that there will be a place for BOTH. There will *always* be a need for a large aircraft moving from congested big airport to congested big airport. The 7E7 at the same time will be moving people from small city to big city. I think it will end up being a good mix. I think the 7E7 will particularly shine in the very dense countries of Asia where there are many large cities with no necessary a huge amount of traffic moving between... Just my $0.02.
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1869 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6166 times:
"Liu said she was uncomfortable talking about the $80 million figure, but she did not deny that is what Northwest paid for the plane."
-Laura Liu, vice president of international marketing and revenue for Northwest.
The list for the A332 is $146.5 million to $153 million. Shit, at those prices, I'll take two.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6873 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6153 times:
Funny thing about the hub-to-hub comments is that neither LAX nor SFO are a hub to any airline that will be flying the A380 to those airports. So there goes that theory. In fact, except for LH, no airline that has ordered the A380 has more than one hub.
The A380 will be used between major airports that have certain limitation when it comes to increasing frequency of flights, regardless of whether it is a hub or not.
KEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6113 times:
Funny thing about the hub-to-hub comments is that neither LAX nor SFO are a hub to any airline that will be flying the A380 to those airports. So there goes that theory.
Well LHR will soon be stuffed with A380's & not only VS ones..
I think both p-to-p & h-to-h will grow.
Traffic is forecasted to grow 5%/yr, the Hubs are still growing & somehow ....
I cannot believe the 1000+ B747's will all be replaced by smaller aircraft...
but don't nail me down on that one..
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5771 times:
There is more than sufficient room in this world for both strategems.
Both point-to-point and aggregated traffic will grow, and both the 7E7 and 380 will be the pinnacle of technology in those spaces.
Eventually, Airbus will compete with the 7E7, and Boeing the 380, and yay we'll have all new aircraft in both major spaces.
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5707 times:
Or could it be a clue that NW has already bought the 7e7 It could happen, it might just happen.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Leneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5620 times:
I sure hope not..I really do like the A300-200 flying in NWA colors out of PDX..
MSPXJGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 150 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5140 times:
I doubt NW bought the 7E7 but Im sure they're paying close attention to it. It would work well with their Asia network. They could very easily throw a 7E7 from point to point service from their North American hubs and rely less on NRT. I don't know if this will happen or not. NW is in love with their hub model but lately they have been straying a little bit with setting up focus cities in MKE, IND, and GRR
Whitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5090 times:
To get back on track...
what the Boeing guy is saying is that the A330 is in the same general sector that the 7E7 is aimed at. Therefore the 7E7 is justified by the routes and capacity already in service, and presumably Boeing's product will be able to match and surpass the economics of the A330.
So the 7E7 isn't just a speculative design; it's based on sound economics and existing movements in the airline industry.
Frontiers4ever From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4948 times:
"Airbus argued against the B777 getting an extenstion of up 207-minutes in the North Pacific"
I thought they were looking for a 330 minute ETOPS for the 777-300ER
N1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4162 times:
Well, LAX and SFO are hubs for UA, LH's STAR partner. What airbus means by hub to hub flying is PAX connecting from domestic flights (with whoever) to international flights (with whoever) in major cities with very busy airports
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Ramerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3721 times:
Sounds to me like the end of Huge Fortress hubs. This has the potential to be the introduction of point to point flying again. Any thoughts?
SR
Leneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2500 times:
I might be wrong, but one of the reason why the flight was downgraded in Seattle was the start of the Narita flight from PDX.
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2770 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2320 times:
What the 332 & 7E7 do in Asia will allow large-hub to medium-size cities in Europe & N.America. In Asia, each country with the exception of China is dominated by one large city. Singapore-Singapore, Tokyo-Japan, Seoul-S.Korea, etc. Even China, int'l services are currently dominated by Beijing & Shanghai. The demographics in Europe and US are not concentrated in one city so the 767-sized airplane ruled from the mid-80s on. Both Boeing's 7E7 and Airbus A380 will be market hits come 2015.
If someone is unhappy with NW's 332 service out of SEA to NRT then use the UA's 777 flight. UA will be more than happy to have their business.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1656 times:
If NW want to continue being profitable on this route, they'll need to replace it with a BOEING built aircraft.
Can you imagine the same thing being said in the mdia about Boeing flying to "Airbus home" airports ?
I can´t.
25 Vatveng: So when will NW resign the DC9? wow, it took 23 whole replies for this to come up... must be a record!
26 SupraZachAir: Can you imagine the same thing being said in the mdia about Boeing flying to "Airbus home" airports ? I can´t. I can't either... Very few people in S
27 Spk: Long-haul operations to smaller airports is a nice idea but there are other factors than the aircraft specs that the airline must consider. Handling o
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11316 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 8792 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 786 posts, 
*jeeeehhhh*
It could happen, it might just happen.
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2770 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 462 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
