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Why R Most Of The TWA A/c Acquired By AA In Storage  
User currently offlineOurboeing From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7643 times:

I was on:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/?file=ficheopp&opp=American%20Airlines

and found something very interesting. If you see, most of the TWA aircraft acquired by AA are in storage. Is it because of a different engine type..for example the 757s? Were TWA 757 PW powered? I have flown on those a few times and somehow don't seem to remember and they were all less than 5 years old?? Same goes with MD 81/82/83. Most of them in storage are the ones acquired from TWA. Another interesting thing I found was that out of all the 717s from TWA, AA has held on to just 1. I know most of them are now flying with Airtran and every 10 minutes one flies past my house on its approach into BWI Smile

OUR BOEING

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

AA did not keep any 762s or 763s of TWA if I am not mistaken partially because these airframes were old and had many many hours.

They did keep some of the 752s and in fact they are still flying. AA 757-231s are PW powered.


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They got rid of all the 717s, partially due to the high lease rates I believe. I don't know anything about AA holding on to 1?

And they also did keep some ex-TW MD-80s although they aren't nearly as nice as the AA models.


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PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

Just because they are the same type, doesn't mean that they don't have the same options. For example, all of TWA's Boeings had the overhead switches work opposite the normal boeing layout because that is the way all of TW's other aircraft were set up. Having different avionics, and other things like that make it pretty hard for a pilot to transition between the two easily. Also, AA has many of it's own planes parked. Why would they want to be flying these aircraft? Many of the interiors have yet to be changed to the AA style and from a passenger's view this also adds to the fleet commonality.

I can also assure you that AA is no longer flying the 717 and if it does still have one (which I doubt) they'll be getting rid of it as soon as the lease expires or they find a buyer.



DMI
User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7445 times:

I believe on TWA's B767-300s they had 3 different exit configurations and about a half dozen different galley configurations.

AA is looking to return some aircraft to service from the desert with their ramping up of service in the remainder of the year (namely in DFW).


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7432 times:

Actually...
AA has NO TWA DC-9-20/30/40/50 all were parked (fleet size was 32)
AA has NO 717-200s all are flying in other carrier fleets (fleet size was 18)
AA has been parking the PW 2037 powered B757-200s slowly as the leases end (Total fleet size was 27 in TWA days)
AA has already parked the B767-300ERs from TWA days (Powered by PW 4000 series) (Fleet size was 7)
AA has parked 27 MD80s total some of them are from the TWA original 108 MD80s from TWA. Some of the parked MD80s are originally AA metal. The MD80s were parked as heavy maint checks came due. The majority of the TWA fleet was made up by these and the majority of them are still flying with AA.

Hence the statement most TWA planes are parked is incorrect.

Most implies over 50% and the fact is that over 50% of former TWA metal is flying at AA still to this day. The fleet consists of soon to be returned PW powered 757-200ERs and MD82/MD83 aircraft that are still in service with no scheduled removal from service.

AA has also parked its 727-100 727-200 and F100 fleet entirely during the same period.

Of course less then 20% of the TWA employees remain and by some counts less then 10%

The TWA MD80s are amongst the newest built and the TWA 757-200s are more comfortable and modern then the AA originals as well.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

ALL TWA B767-200s had been retired prior to AA taking over TWA.

Remember the new plane every 10 days for TWA for the two year prior to BK.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7412 times:

According to AA.com, they still have 23 F100s


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7401 times:


And they also did keep some ex-TW MD-80s although they aren't nearly as nice as the AA models


That's about the craziest thing I have herd from some one here. Most of TW's fleet of MD80's were the youngest around...They took every one of the delivery's for the last year of MD80 production. Before you make comments like this you should check your facts!

-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7400 times:

According to AA.com, they still have 23 F100s

The last couple F-100s are retired on Tuesday.


User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7380 times:

That's about the craziest thing I have herd from some one here. Most of TW's fleet of MD80's were the youngest around...They took every one of the delivery's for the last year of MD80 production

I guess you aren't counting these then, which probably include the ones sitting in the desert:
Built 1981: N922TW, N924TW, N928TW, N929TW
Built 1982: N921TW
Built 1983: N901TW, N902TW, N903TW, N904TW, N905TW, N906TW, N907TW, N908TW, N909TW, N911TW, N912TW
Built 1984: N913TW, N914TW, N915TW, N916TW, N950U, N951U
Built 1985: N952U, N953U, N917TW, N918TW, N919TW, N920TW, N960TW, N923TW, N926TW
Built 1986: N925TW, N927TW, N9305N
Built 1987: N954U, N955U, N931TW, N9302B, N9303K, N9304C, N9306T, N9307R, N9407R, EI-BWD

I'll stop with just those, as I think it illustrates the point.


Before you make comments like this you should check your facts!

As should you.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7365 times:

jaxpax

You obviously missed the fact that TW had the last 34 aircraft off the line. To say those weren't as nice as AA's 15 year old planes...That's crazy. Granted some of their birds were just as old as AA's but a lot weren't.

Those would be the facts I'm talking about!!!!!!  Nuts

-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

Jax Pax...

Being very familiar with TWA in its final years...

How come you included airframes that were retired prior to AA taking TWA?

Also.. When one comments as to the condition of the TWA MD80s vs AA MD80s it should be noted that in the final two years of operations TWA had the industries HIGHEST dispatch reliability rate.

The only negative is that AA uninstalled the AirPhones as another poster mentioned and did it half way leaving gaping holes in seatbacks throughout the plane. Other then that the TWA MD80s were in far better condition when delivered to AA. Part of the standardization included the removal of advance avionics to bring them down to AA standard configs.

The 757s are in far better condition then AAs fleet with modern IFE vs the AA CRTs and glass cockpits that again had more advanced avionics. TWAs 757 fleet was also fully ETOPS compliant and had ER fuel tank mods allowing them to fly HNL-STL nonstop, JFK-LIS and other routes. (similar to what CO does on some routes)


User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

You obviously missed the fact that TW had the last 34 aircraft off the line. To say those weren't as nice as AA's 15 year old planes...That's crazy. Granted some of their birds were just as old as AA's but a lot weren't.

Cockpit differences were numerous between TWA's latest aircraft and the status quo AA MD-80. Having ridden up front with some AA crews in ex-TW machines, let me just say that it's probably for the best they aren't flying more of them without a greater amount of training or further avionics standardization. Hearing about a number of incidents where the INS wasn't properly initialized spring to mind....

How come you included airframes that were retired prior to AA taking TWA?

I was going off of a fleet list dated 2001.


I've flown on a number of ex-TW aircraft in the last year (primarily DFW-STL, DFW-MCI) that still have the TW interior, though I can't speak for holes where inflight phones used to be as I haven't been in coach on one in awhile. From what I recall, the phones are still there in First, or they are inside of an opening armrest where they aren't normally visible.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

JAXpax

The F class seats had the phones in the sides of the F class seat with each seat having an individual phone. In Y class the phones were above the tray table in the center seat on the three side and on the aisle seat on the two side.

The cockpit differences between the AA machines and TW machines were numerous, But I like the TW cockpits better. (other then the switches are the opposite from every other airline)

The 757-200s were ordered with most options. In humor the 757s had modern EFIS while the 767-200/300s were on with Trans Atlantic HF radio.


User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7295 times:

The F class seats had the phones in the sides of the F class seat with each seat having an individual phone. In Y class the phones were above the tray table in the center seat on the three side and on the aisle seat on the two side.

My memory is probably foggy but I recall on some TWA MD-80s where the leather part of the center armrest in First lifted up and the airphone was inside. Perhaps this was on the older aircraft.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

You cannot count a lack of fleet training by AA for TW equipment as a problem with TW's equipment...As mentioned above they had to be "dumbed down" to standardized. Their flight deck avionics were much more advanced on TW. But I cannot blame the crews but they simply weren't trained. But now that they have been standardized...There should be no problems and TW's birds will end up being the last MD80's in the fleet seeing as they are the youngest. Saying some how they are lessor then AA's simply because their avionics weren't the same...That's silly!  Nuts

-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

American has the very last MD-82 produced, which was built for TWA. It was delivered in 1999. TWA had a grand total of 103 MD-82/83s, 30 717-200s, 27 757-200s, 10 762s & 12 763s. AA adopted, albeit temporarily, all the MD-80s, the 717s, the 757s and only 9 763s. Only the majority, if not all, of the MD-80 fleet are staying with AA for the long term. The 717s are gone, the 763s were soon disposed of just after the takeover, and the 757s are being return to the owners as soon as the leases are up. Hopefully this will clear up some of the confusion here. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7229 times:

Saying some how they are lessor then AA's simply because their avionics weren't the same...That's silly!

Actually AA's have lesser equipment. They are still using paper enroute charts to fly those MD-80s.

Only annoying thing about the standardization... some of the ex-TWA aircraft have the new interiors, but the inseat power outlets aren't yet functional.


User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

The TWA 767-200s were all gone before AA and many went to Airborne Express now AX and DHL.

Also the DC-9s were retired at the time of closing.

I show 7 767-300s not 9 as 2 were sent back to the leasors again prior to the March 15 closing.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7193 times:

ARGHHHH!
Time for a vocabulary lesson gentlemen.
THEN and THAN, believe it or not, mean two different things and are two separate words!!

"I like chocolate more THAN vanilla"
"I will have chocolate first, THEN vanilla"


Back to Aviation.

The hightlights of this thread so far:
Between 10%-20% of TWA employees remain with AA.
A significant amount of TWA's fleet sit in the desert.
That isn't a merger, it's a bloodbath! But should we be surprised?, given AA's recent history of handling mergers with AirCal and RenoAir.
No matter what the press release may read, AA never wanted the STL hub, instead their intent was to take away competition from it's ORD and DFW hubs.

The argument that TWA would have shut down if were not for AA stepping in as the Knight in Shining Armor is horse crap.
What's the difference?
I would have rather seen TWA succeed or fail on it's own.
But what's done is done.........



Delete this User
User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7135 times:

The AA pilots who were flying converted TWA FMS aircraft(the final 30 or so MD80's produced) most certainly did not get enough training. AND, since AA's fleet is SO standardized, I don't really think they knew what they were getting into flying a radically non-standard aircraft.

With TWA's DC9 fleet, a hodgepodge of MD80's and the 767-200's and -300's coming from different operators, we were well-versed in flying a non-standard fleet and knew you REALLY had to figure out where everything was BEFORE you pushed back.

Now, TWA pilots encountered the same problem with the FMS -80's when they came on line. Those of us who had 767 experience(same FMS) who commuted on the jumpseat spent that time explaining WTF was going on with the 'box'. Everyone finally got into the sim and got trained but as AA found out, you can't train that type of thing with a bulletin.

I thought it was odd that we need a 5 week course to transition to the AA -80's and the AA guys need a bulletin.  Insane It's really not fair to those crews to throw them into that situation.TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (9 years 12 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7102 times:

i wasn't referring to age.

And they also did keep some ex-TW MD-80s although they aren't nearly as nice as the AA models

That's about the craziest thing I have herd from some one here. Most of TW's fleet of MD80's were the youngest around...They took every one of the delivery's for the last year of MD80 production. Before you make comments like this you should check your facts!


what i meant by the TW ones not being as nice has to do with the configuration.

i've flown on 5 AA MD-80s and 3 TWA MD-80s, all after the take over and the AA ones are just plain nicer!



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 6807 times:

That isn't a merger, it's a bloodbath! But should we be surprised?, given AA's recent history of handling mergers with AirCal and RenoAir.

It sure wasn't a merger; it was an acquisition.


User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (9 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 6715 times:

Does anybody know why AA did not put leather headrests on the ex-TW MD-80s?

I recently was supposed to fly one(before MX took the aircraft out of service) and upon boarding I noticed that they lacked the leather headrests as well as the usual sidewall design for AA.

I found the normal leather headrests on AA to be a LOT more comfortable than the non existent ones on the ex TW aircraft.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 12 months 22 hours ago) and read 6628 times:

AMEN to thant Stirling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and that's all I have to say for now.
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
25 NBGskygod : once again checking the facts...TWA took one of the last MD80 series built, I know this because I got a picture of it haning in my office next to the
26 757drvr : Actually AA's have lesser equipment. They are still using paper enroute charts to fly those MD-80s. They still use paper charts on ALL the MD-8O's not
27 Ramerinianair : If you do a search on the boeing website, you will find that the last 29 MD-80 that were made were delivered to TW! It is becoming evident that people
28 NightFlier : I agree Ourboeing I was talking to my uncle yesterday and he was telling me about all the new airplanes TWA had received before they went bankrupt. It
29 UA744KSFO : "The argument that TWA would have shut down if were not for AA stepping in as the Knight in Shining Armor is horse crap. What's the difference? I woul
30 Flyibaby : NightFlier, Not that I don't agree with you, but I have to say it costs less to fly a plane that is paid for than one with high-lease payments. Same i
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