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AA May Reactivate X-TWA 767's  
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7284 times:

I was talking to a friend last night and a new rumour floating around is that AA is planning on reactivating the 7 TWA 767-300's. I really find this hard to believe since this would introduce another sub fleet (PW powerplants). Can anyone at AA confirm this one?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7237 times:
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And what proof if any can you show to support this?

Or is this just nonsense?



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User currently offlineLX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

Mirrodie: he said it was a rumour and is asking Can anyone at AA confirm this one?
he's not making a statement, he's just asking if someone else has heard anything along the lines of something he heard from his buddy, no need to flame him.  Big grin

777flyer: haven't heard anything about this, but as u said, it would be a bit unusual seeing as to how they use a different powerplant. Maybe someone who works at AA will be able to conifrm (or more likely) discredit that rumour


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7165 times:

Considering that AA bought GE-powered 767-300s to replace the TW planes, this rumor doesn't make much sense.

User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26481 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

When since the TWA merger has AA bought planes? They do fly some of the PW 757s around, so it is possible they will bring in the PW 767s as the difference in MX costs is less than that of reengining or buying new or used 767s. This is good news for TWA pilots on Furlough, as the fact that they have PW 767s on their Certificates reduces training costs


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User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6972 times:

I was under the impression that the ex-TWA 763s were returned to the lessors with no intention of ever returning them to the AA fleet. As Ckfred stated, 9 new 763s were delivered last year to replace the ex-TWA 763s, ship nos. N342-N350. Considering that AA is now in the process of phasing out he 16 remaining 752s acquired from TWA because they also have PW engines, I doubt this is true. It's just a rumor so far.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6908 times:

When since the TWA merger has AA bought planes

They bought 9 new 767-300ERs to replace the TW ones. These frames feature the Boeing Signature Interior, none of the other AA ones do.

I was under the impression that the ex-TWA 763s were returned to the lessors with no intention of ever returning them to the AA fleet.

They were returned to the lessors yes. It would probably not be possible to get them back at this point without some major effort.

N


User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1027 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6764 times:

According to SABRE in the list of unassigned and OTS aircraft at least one of the 200's we sent to Roswell has come out and now is in Kansas City for work. As for the former TWA -200's I know of 2 of them that are getting cut up and scrapped so I doubt they will be flying for us anytime soon.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6215 times:
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This is good news for TWA pilots on furlough, as the fact that they have PW 767s on their Certificates reduces training costs rules


Now I don't know if this is true, but it was my understanding that all TW pilots were merged beneath all AA pilots including those on furlough and remain on lay off. But if that's the case, then recalling the TW 767 pilots who flew the 767-300 would grossly violate seniority rules. If the differences on the 767 aircraft were that great, then there would be little chance of these odd-balls staying in the fleet. But I doubt that AA pilots can't be trained to fly both types. Having to manage a parallel seniority system is a very expensive type of labor cost.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

Now I don't know if this is true, but it was my understanding that all TW pilots were merged beneath all AA pilots including those on furlough and remain on lay off. But if that's the case, then recalling the TW 767 pilots who flew the 767-300 would grossly violate seniority rules

The top 500 pilots on the TWA seniority list were integrated with partial seniority at American. Basically somebody with 30 years at TWA was given about half that at AA, more or less. These top 500 probably include a number of B767/757 Captains, and a number still fly the 757.


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5464 times:

I'm not in a unionized job but I find seniority rules after airline mergers are so ridiculous. Why can't unions figure out that the new pilots are new union members and fellow co-workers with similar bills to pay? Ten years of experience flying a certain aircraft is ten years experience flying a certain type. Isn't the whole point of seniority to compensate experience and a greater unlikelihood of finding another career at an older age? TWA's demise and AA's success has nothing to do with AA pilots flying better than TWA pilots. I can see TWA management being held to the fire but why the pilots?

I guess this is another discussion altogether.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26481 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5442 times:

The thing about the TW pilots being recalled is that there is the issue of only holding 5 pure jet types (including subfleets) on one cert. This is a problem already with some AA pilots flying RR 757s, PW 757s, RR 757ERs, GE 763ERs, GE 762ERs. That is full and a problem


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8539 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5429 times:
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This is not possible since most of the aircraft have been placed with other carriers.




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User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

The more common rumor (from several people) I have heard is that AA may bring back their old 762s.

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

The likelihood of TWA 767s being reactivated seems pretty farfetched to me. Yes, several TWA 763s (the -3Q8ERs) were pretty new when they were retired from the AA fleet, but I would think it is quite ridiculous to activate another aircraft type which has a different powerplant type. And let's not even begin talking about TWA's 762s...those aircraft have long since been broken up or are flying for other airlines....I think it is much easier just to order new 767s. AA has plenty of them already anyway...why the hell would they need more than 50????


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 931 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

just as BA319-131 said....

Do some searches and you will find that most of the ex-TWA 767-300's are now flying with other carriers. So this answeres your question. No AA will not re-activate any TWa 767's because they dont own any ex-TWA 767's to re-activate. As for the ex-TWA 767-200's I dont know if they still have those all buttoned up in the desert or not but as mentioned a couple of them have been chopped up.


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Actually, correction. AA's Boeing 763ER fleet totals between 57 and 60, and their 762ER fleet added to that pushes the fleet total to between 70 and 80. That is more than a sufficient enough fleet for them...they do not need more Boeing 767s...they just finished taking delivery of 8 brand new ones over the past two years. Plus, as TrnsWrld mentioned just now, apparently AA no longer owns these 767s...so why bother even trying to pursue them? Except for MD-80s, I doubt AA will reactivate any other TWA aircraft type. The ex-TWA 757s in AA colors are beginning to leave the fleet slowly but surely...and likelihood is they won't be returning to the AA fleet.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

"I'm not in a unionized job but I find seniority rules after airline mergers are so ridiculous."
You're telling me. I have the TWA employee benefit catalogue book thing at home. It is crazy. It would be very nice to see TWs 767-300 models back at it but as stated they are mostly else where at the time being. As for the 762 rumor, TW had 5 762s in their fleet. The A/C were owned and not leased! These A/C were on the older side and some of them were stored as of mid 2001.
N601TW 11/22/82 Stored at VCV 04/10/01
N602TW 12/08/82 Stored at VCV 04/10/01
N604TW 02/23/83 Last Revenue Flight was on 03/30/01, withdrawn from service, parked at MZJ
N605TW 12/17/82 Last Revenue Flight was on 04/07/01 then parked at JFK
N610TW 11/23/83 Last Revenue Flight was on 03/22/01, withdrawn from service, parked at JFK
They are all older but, AA does have about 15 762s around the same age. They are powered by JT9D-7R4D engines. AA's 767s are powered by the CF6-80 family of engines.
Also, on a side note, DL operates a mix of powerplants within the 767 family- maybe that's why they are loosing $$.
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2282 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Specifically, according to the active fleet count on AA.com, AA operates 58 763s and 15 762s, totaling 73. You can access the fleet count page by following the link below. The page is updated about once a month.

http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/corporateInformation/facts/fleet.jhtml



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User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

Just an FYI. At the date of the merging of seniority lists, all TWA pilots became junior to AA pilots. But the caveat was that a fence was placed around the STL crew base. That was to prevent AA pilots from switching crew bases to get on to larger aircraft, better schedules, etc.

My understanding is that TW pilots kept their seniority for purposes of pay, i.e. if a TW pilot had 25 years of service and not furloughed, he is paid the same as AA pilots with 25 years of service, on the same aircraft type


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Why can't unions figure out that the new pilots are new union members and fellow co-workers with similar bills to pay? Ten years of experience flying a certain aircraft is ten years experience flying a certain type. Isn't the whole point of seniority to compensate experience and a greater unlikelihood of finding another career at an older age?

In a nutshell... pilots are paid based on their senority. The more senior a pilot is, the higher the pay, higher benefits ect. Thus an airline with a very senior pilot pool has a very high pilot payroll.

Had AA incorperated the TW pilots at their previous senority, the enormus payrole would have been unmanageable. Why drag all of AMR down because of the newly bought assets?


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Ramerinianair, actually, TWA had 12 Boeing 762s in their fleet, all converted to ERs in the late-80s early '90s:

N601TW
N602TW
N603TW
N604TW
N605TW
N606TW
N607TW
N608TW
N609TW
N610TW
N650TW
N651TW (I think this is the other one)

Do you mean 7 of these were retired by the time AA bought them out? Because I thought the retirement process began in 2000-2001 Confused



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User currently offlineAa767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2363 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

I never knew you could convert a 767-200, to a 767-200ER. By the way, AA got those new 763s because it was too expensive to cancel the order then just taking them. Because at the time, and even now, AA really does not need the 9 extra 763s.


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User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Yes, it is very possible, to convert a 767-200 to a -200ER. All of TWA's 767s were originally non-ERs, but all were converted to ERs by the end of the 1980s.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2417 times:
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hey, aa777flyer and lx23, sorry if it sounded like a flame, when it wasn;t. Its simply that this board easily becomes a rumor mill, so I was, like you, looking for support to back up the rumor.

So it seems that it is still rumor right now, huh? No final word yet.



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User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 25, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Just backing up what Thrust had posted with his TWA 762 fleet list, there were indeed 10 767-231ERs & 2 767-205ERs. TWA also had 10 763ERs, altho these were a mixture of 3 -3Q8ERs, 5 -3Y0ERs, 1 -33AER & 1 -330ER. Since all of TWA's 767s were PW powered, none of them will see service with American again. If anything AA will bring their 767-223s out of storage, which IMO is unlikely. Regards.


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