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YIP: Potential Alternative To DTW?  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

Willow Run Airport, just outside of the city of Detroit, Michigan, seems to be a logical way to get around our red-tailed friends who monopolize Detroit-Wayne County Northwest Airlines International Airport...YIP has its longest runway at 7526 feet (5R/23L), and four other runways, all longer than 6500 feet...why couldn't somebody, such as Southwest or jetBlue, set up shop as a way of getting around Northwest's monopoly at DTW...I know YIP is 8 miles further out from Detroit from DTW is, but given lower fares, and the proximity to Ann Arbor, I could see YIP being a viable airport for an LCC operations base, for an airline such as Southwest...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Have you ever been to YIP? If not it would remind you of a shot right out of WW2. It would take major updating and money to do this.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

I don't believe YIP has the pax facilities needed, it is mainly a cargo facility.

Yes, it is a little closer to A2, but the bulk of the metro area would still have a lot more driving to do. FNT is a better example of an alternate to DTW.

But, tell me....what have you got against NW and legacy carriers in general. I really see this as un-American as buying Nissans and Audis at a time when all legacy industries (Ford, GM, NW, AA, Etc.) need the support of the American people.



User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1861 times:

Dtwclipper-I have nothing against Northwest, or any other airline (except Delta, and to a lesser extent Independence), and as a matter of fact, I try to do most of my flying on legacy airlines (namely United and US Airways)...I'm just trying to inquire about the opportunity to use an alternate airport to stimulate competition...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6708 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

"I really see this as un-American as buying Nissans and Audis at a time when all legacy industries (Ford, GM, NW, AA, Etc.) need the support of the American people."

Flying Southwest/Jetblue/Airtran is un-American... sheesh.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

Southwest already happily operates out of DTW. They just maintain status-quo and haven't expanded in ages. Spirit also happily operates out of DTW, so does Indy Air. Anyone is more than welcome, they just choose not to.

YIP is only about 10 minutes driving from DTW, that would be the dumbest idea in the world to set up passenger ops at YIP.

If you can't drive an additional 10 minutes from Ann Arbor to get to one of the largest airports in the country, they you've got problems.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

PSU.DTW.SCE-Keep in mind, also, that that argument works in reverse, if you can't drive an additional 10 minutes from Detroit to get to lower fares and get out of the clutches of Northwest, then you've got problems too...and what if, say, Spirit moved their operations from DTW to YIP, or jetBlue used YIP to try to get a foothold in the Detroit-Ann Arbor market, or even if Independence built up a second, east-west hub at DTW...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineDc8jet From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

You must remember that YIP was built during WW II as the airport for Ford's B-24 bomber plant. At that time the airlines were using Detroit City Airport (DET)
and serving it with DC-3s. DET was too small to handle the upcoming four engined airliners and because it was right in the middle of a residental area ir could not be expanded.

After the war one of the hangars at YIP was converted into a terminal building.
The conversion mainly consisted of adding ticket counters and the other things that go inside a terminal. Two boarding fingers were added. As I recall they were made of wood. They also added an observation deck. The original large hangar doors were left in place. When the airlines moved to DTW the terminal was turned back to a hangar.

As was mentioned the place is right out of the 1950's. The only passenger flights that go into YIP are sports teams playing U of M. When they arrive the passengers get right onto busses.

In order to have any passenger operations out of YIP they would have to build a new terminal, update the roads and a whole lot of other things. The cost of doing that would be prohibative.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

But there is ZERO advantage of flying into an undeveloped airport. Either way NW would price match, and its all a moot point since it won't happen anyways.

User currently offlineAZO From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

Why would the current LCC carriers at DTW move to YIP if they are having no problems at DTW? There would be little-to-no advantage of doing that.


Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
User currently offlineKYIPpilot From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1736 times:

There really isn't anyplace at YIP that could be turned into pax facilities without construction of a new building. All hangars are currently used. Also, DTW already provides all of the services that people want, food, etc. Why move? As stated above, YIP is only 10 minutes from DTW.

Also as a side note, YIP has just started undergoing major construction that will last for 5 years. $76 million.

-All new lighting and signs are being put it
-Runway 9R/27L is being removed
-Parallel taxiways are being build for the 23's

There may be more, but this is all I have heard as of now.



"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1733 times:

There are other possibilities in the area that could get service first before sinking the money into YIP to make it acceptable for passengers. You have TOL, LAN and FNT all relatively close by, also a little further away you have the likes of GRR and AZO.... And for an airline flying regional jets like Flyi there is always DET waiting in the wings for someone to start up service....


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1723 times:

If I remember correctly, YIP is owned by the Univ. of Michigan who are happy with the revenue that cargo generates. The main thing that always has puzzled me about DTW is why Southwest has never expanded there, as mentioned. It's almost like they have an understanding with NW about DTW AND MSP.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1716 times:

FRA2DTW

I believe WN is happy with the market they have out of DTW and if they grow slowly they could do it without waking the sleeping bear.......



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDc8jet From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

YIP hasn't been owned by U of M for quite some time. It is owned by Wayne County and is operated by the Wayne County Airport Authority as is DTW.

User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Whats Up with DET Remeber Pro Air IND-DET ...

User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2380 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1642 times:

What's the problem with DTW? The new north terminal will be completed in 2008 so all the airlines will have new facilities, and DTW has four parallel runways with dual or triple simultaneous ILS approaches.

YIP is really so close to DTW that traffic would probably use many of the same approach/ departure corridors that DTW uses now. Even with infrastructure improvements at YIP to handle passengers, I don't really see the advantages.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineElectraBob From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 931 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

It sure would be neat to hear "Southwest 849, cleared to land on 23 Left...you're following a B-17 on a 1 mile final"....or "Spirit 642, cleared to land on 5 Right....you're following an Electra on a 3 mile final."  Smile

It will never happen. We are very lucky to have Willow Run in this area, but you will never see scheduled passenger service there again....never.



Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2566 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

While visiting "Ypsitucky International" @ Willow Run, be sure to visit the Yankee Air Museum (before it is condemned).


Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1588 times:

Teams playing U of M may fly into YIP, but U of M when flying in many cases use DTW. For bowl charters the players, staff, and band all take M busses to DTW.

User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

@DTWClipper
How is supporting NW patriotic when they turn around and buys billions of Airbus planes with our hard earned U.S. dollars?



747SP
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3047 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

I remember seeing ALL the airlines flying into YIP --- But that was before DTW was constructed. I have a postcard of what the terminal that was a hanger looked like inside at that time. I remember this being in the 1950s. I have a black and white photo of passengers deplaning a Northwest Stratocruiser at YIP.

Later 707's arrived there but as stated in previous posts while its neat to think about the "concept" of a secondary airport in the area so much would have to be changed at YIP.

With the current financial condition of the airlines the concept as almost all have stated isn't really viable at this time.


User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Yet another ill informed regurgitation of rhetoric believed on A.net. NWA does not have a monopoly at DTW. Of passengers originating travel at DTW NWA carries around half of those people. There are plenty of choices nonstop and connecting. Connecting passengers cannot nor should not be counted since they are just changing planes. It is not thier origin or destination airport. They could change planes anywhere.
DTW is not slot controlled and has plenty of room for any airline who wants to operate. Willow Run airport is further away from the city of Detroit than DTW. There is no need for Willow Run as an alternative. A wiser suggestion might be DET (City Airport) at least it is close to downtown businesses.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

Warren747sp:

Yes, I know, and am dissapointed in NW's use of Airbus rather than Boeing, however keep in mind, that although Airbus is a Euro Company they supply contracts to hundreds of US firms.

http://www.time.com/time/globalbusiness/article/0,9171,1101020729-322621,00.html

Never the less, let's not turn this into an A v. B thread.


User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

The statement that keeps coming up that YIP is further away from the city mean jack squat! No one lives in the city. For people in the west YIP is 10mins closer and for people like me in the north it is 10mins further. And this will reverse if DET were to be used. Aprox. 20mins closer for me from the north, but aprox 20mins further from those in the west. People might say keep stuff in the city to preserve Detroit, however it is the big business that have caused so much urban sprawl. Ford Wixom plant(which might close I think), Daimler Chrysler Aurban Hills HQ, Downriver plants. So the airport not being in the city can't be used as a major reason for people leaving Detroit.

25 MAH4546 : "I really see this as un-American as buying Nissans and Audis at a time when all legacy industries (Ford, GM, NW, AA, Etc.) need the support of the Am
26 KarlB737 : It sounds like there would be more interest in DET than YIP. But that is another thread which has already been covered.
27 SHUPirate1 : YIP could also handle larger aircraft than DET, however...YIP has 5 runways at 6511 feet or longer, with their longest at 7526, while DET's longest ru
28 Post contains images SW733 : So true, MAH4546, so true...by the same thing, Dtwclipper must have never flown, or never will fly, anything except US based airlines...kinda hard if
29 AGrayson514 : What are the facilities like at DET? Do they have a terminal and such? ~ Andrew Grayson
30 Post contains links Tjwgrr : Andrew, Official DET website with photos and more: http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/airport/information.htm
31 Isitsafenow : NEILALP...A lot of people would have to drive right past DTW to get to YIP on I 94.. That's why DTW was developed throughout the sixties and pulled ca
32 Post contains images KYIPpilot : I too remember UA DC 8's and Caravelles, EA DC 8's and 720's and TW 707's with an 880 tossed in every now and then, running in and out of YIP. It was
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