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Does DL Pullout From DFW Affect Air Tran  
User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 525 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Just wondering if Delta's big announcement today will affect Air Tran's presence in DFW or ATL. Any thoughts???

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

>>>Any thoughts???

Yeah, with 50 737-700s on firm order (a handful delivered) and options for 50 more, I'd say they could simultaneously make life difficult for AA out of DFW, as well as DL out of ATL... They have to deploy them somewhere...


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3368 times:
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I could see a slow growth, at first to stay under the radar of the sleeping bear......


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

I bet Southwest beats them to the punch.....

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

>>>I bet Southwest beats them to the punch.....

Or buys them outright and kills 2 birds with 1 stone... (he said, as he released the clutch on the rumor machine...)  Big grin

(I've heard the rumor on other boards for years...Nothing new....)


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

I bet Southwest beats them to the punch.....


Highly unlikely, as Southwest enjoys their niche out of DAL. Sure the Wright Amendment hamstrings them in regards to where they can fly to, but establishing a DFW base would be completely against the spirit of the airline. They are doing well enough out of Love Field to not even need to operate out of DFW.

As for any AirTran expansion out of DFW, here's my short list of potential new service out of DFW:

DFW-SAV (2x a day)
DFW-DCA (2x a day) (There will be slots available when ASA drops out of DFW)
DFW-MSY (3x a day)
DFW-JAX (3x a day)
DFW-MEM (3x a day)
DFW-HOU (2x a day)
DFW-MCI (2x a day)
DFW-PBI (1x a day)
DFW-DEN (3x a day)

I could also see them bulking up DFW-LAS, DFW-LAX and DFW-MCO to perhaps 3-4x a day and possibly put a 737 or two on these routes.



User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

There will be slots available when ASA drops out of DFW)

No there won't. DL is going to take those slots and use them for other routes. You'll notice DL is adding 2x DCA-BOS flights...where do you think the slots for that are coming from?



User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3210 times:
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There is a way WN could start service from DFW and still keep the niche of DAL, just serve different cities out of each airport...... Take 6 gates minimum with a total of 10 flights a day = 60 flights from day one with no problem at all!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

Running stations at two airports in the same city goies against WN's business plan. It is highly unlikely that they will do that!
As for FL, they will have a field day or they should if given the right oppertunity.
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3183 times:
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They ran both DET and DTW at the same time for roughly 5 years......


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3176 times:
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Why do you think having two or more stations at a destination is outside of WN's business plan? They serve IAH as well as HOU. WN serves LAX, SNA, BUR and ONT.

User currently offlineONT 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

Ramerinianair,

How about IAH and HOU?



"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

>>>As for FL, they will have a field day or they should if given the right oppertunity.

Precisely why some (who've posted on various boards) feel that SWA could theoretically move to preempt FL's opportunity...

In addition to DET/DTW, SWA runs dual ops at IAH/HOU every day...


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3152 times:
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Does WN still fly to Detroit City Airport????

I agree...this is Air Trans golden opportunity. They probably could move back to DAL's terminal at DFW, once the gates free up. I'm sure there will be plenty available.

BTW, what will happen to DAL's maintenance base at DFW?


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
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N they ended that service just shy of 5 years in the market. They had started DTW a good year before DET.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

>>>Does WN still fly to Detroit City Airport????

Nope... (thank heavens...)


>>>BTW, what will happen to DAL's maintenance base at DFW?

I've seen some speculation posted (elsewhere) that UPS will move to acquire it... Just rumor...


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3121 times:
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With AA depeaking their DFW hub and DL removing around 235 flights, flying in and out of DFW hasn't been too bad. If WN were to fly to DFW, I don't think WN would have too many delay problems there, outside of weather delays. Although, I do think you'll see AA increase ops more than just the 70 announced.

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

The beauty in having SWA service at DFW really doesn't have much to do with DAL - it's the connections.

MHT, PVD, BWI, CLE, BNA, MCO, FLL, TPA, MDW, STL, PHX, LAX, SAN, OAK, SJC, SLC, LAS, and SEA could all *easily* work out well.. and it would take pressure off of PHX for southeast-west connections.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

>>>and it would take pressure off of PHX for southeast-west connections.

LAS as well...


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

I would think that FL will open up DFW-SFO. Will it be with a 717 or 73G? I would guess a 73G, as with the cut capacity from DL.

-Copa


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

This sounds like a perfect opportunity to take some of those 737-800s, rumored to be returned by ATA, and start more DFW flights. Does anyone know how the existing DFW Airtran flights are performing?

User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Srbmod:

FL is getting new planes, but diffently not enough and at a fast enough pace to antcipate your fequency ideals from DFW. DFW will remain a focus city for FL for quite some time for a number of reasons.

-They haven't established themselves yet in a great portion of the Westrn US

- Again, the number of new planes and their rate of delivery will not allow for that significant of a buildup (FL will deffintly protect their claim at ATL before
branching out to claim a major peice of the pie at DFW)

- The AA monopoly will prevent drastic buildup. If FL makes a major shot at making a hub or large focus city @ DFW it will have to be done quietly and over a great length of time so as not to set off AA's intruder alarm, if they do it quickly and publicly AA has the means to crush FL altoghther at DFW, unlike their rather 'nice' relationship w/ DL @ ATL

- Remember the powerful force across the way at DAL in the form of WN, the grandpa of LCCs, and carrier with tons of loyalty in the metroplex region. FL flies to many of the same places as WN and with a one stop connection , WN pax can get to pretty much any destination in the WN system.

- Its one thing to be a FF on WN, to be one on AA and starting orgion travel from the DFW area is another one, with ferious loyalty, AA keeps O&D out of DFW very high via its FF members, they built such a reputation that not consdering travel on AA to from or through DFW is not an option, which keeps other carriers struggling for pax.

In end, I can see most of the places you listed as getting 1x daily on FL, but no more than that, as the fleet size will only allow ATL to get more than one frequncy to/from DFW . Also you foregot another important destination for FL from DFW, GPT. This route was flown in the late 90s before FL looked at DFW as a focus city, as a result the route was dropped due to low O&D, but with a focus city and some conncections that route will work.



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

If WN does, in fact, fly out of both: DFW and DAL.....how does the wright amendment affect WN in this scenerio if WN starts DFW service and still flies out of DAL?

As for AirTran flying into DFW.....AA better be prepaired as its their home base!! You wouldnt want another carrier coming onto your turf and taking your business away....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

DFW-DCA (2x a day) (There will be slots available when ASA drops out of DFW)


No, there will not be. Delta/ASA will keep the slots, and reallocate them. The only time that slots become publicly available is when:

1) They are outside perimeter slots.
2) They are Special Rules slots, which are given to airlines that will either provide DCA service to new/underserved communities or provide low fare DCA service to DCA markets with little compietition

DFW-DCA is not one of these.




a.
User currently offlineVatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1009 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2823 times:

I've said it before, I will continue to have the following dream:

PHF-DFW nonstop.



Visited VA,NC,PA,SC,FL,GA,OH,AL,TX,TN,CO,CA,UT,NV,NM,IN,KY,MD,MO,CT,MA,NH,ME.
25 PHLBOS : I've said it before, I will continue to have the following dream: PHF-DFW nonstop. For me it would be PHL-DFW nonstop.
26 Elwood64151 : First of all, it's AirTran, not Air Tran. Just a little pet peeve of mine. Second, FL would have a difficult time spooling up flights out of DFW to re
27 Quickmover : AA is going to be in a monopoly position on several DFW routes now. FL doesn't need to go overboard, but if they don't at least take advantage of part
28 Dayflyer : AA is not a subtle airline and they are very territorial. They would not let Airtran get a large presence unless it were done very quietly and without
29 SESGDL : "Smart move by DL. They need to focus on core business hubs (CVG/ATL) and cut pay very dramatically to stay aloft. SLC will be the next to go." WRONG!
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