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Upcoming DL Fleet Retirements  
User currently offlineTheGov From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 415 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

Although there are numerous post regarding today's (Sept 8) announcement by Delta of it's restructuring plan, there does not appear to be one thread devoted to the question of the fleet retirements.

Here is what DL mainline currently operates:
B-737-200
B-737-300
B-737-800
B-757-200
B-767-200
B-767-300
B-767-400
B-777-200
MD-88
MD-90

Now, which ones do you think will be gone in four years as Delta says.

My guess:
B-737-200
B-737-300
MD-90
A real toss up --- B-767-200 or B-767-400 or even the B-777-200

State your guesses here!


Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNW7E7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

My pics:
737-200
737-300
MD-90
767-200

The question is, does DL have enough mainline aircraft if this was correct? MD-80's and 737-800's? Of course these will be phased out within 4 years so DL could build up its 737-800 fleet by then.

NW7E7


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5498 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

737-200
737-300
MD-90
767-200

I doubt the 777 would go, just wouldn't make sense.


User currently offlineBIGBlack From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5815 times:

I would say the older models so...

B-737-200
B-737-300
B-767-200
MD-88

I'm with you



Someone special in the air
User currently offlineNW7E7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

What would they use to fill the gap between the 737-800 and CR7 if they got rid of the MD-88?

User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

They better not get rid of the 767-400 before febuary when I fly on it!

User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5758 times:

I question what DL will fly in the 100 seat arena if the ax the 732 .

Obuviusly that's a gap way to big for an airline to operate (CRJ-700 w/ 70 seats vs. MD80 w/ 140-50 seats) without compesanting for the markets in between these sizes, so the question becomes, after the retirements, what type will DL introduce to fill the 100-125 seat gap?



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineRj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5735 times:

I'm guessing for retirements:

B732
B733
B762
MD80

For fleet within the next 4 years:
738
752
764
772
To replace the 732s-
E170 or 190
or 717 (you never know)


User currently offlineAkjetblue From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 790 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5708 times:

Actually selling the 777 would make sense as they are relativly new so they could get some serious money for them and they only operate a few of the type. DL has deffered a number of the 777 orders keeping the number of them in the fleet low. The 767-300 could operate on most the routes the currently fly across the atlantic.

thoughts?

-PhilzyMCO



Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Believe it or not..did anybody stop to think that MD-11s are in a "temporary stored" status?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

TokyoNarita.



User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5587 times:

I thought DL applied for China service, a route that could only be flown with the 777. If they're serious about that, then I doubt they'd get rid of their 777s.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2554 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

737-200
737-300
737-3G, yes it is a different type, flying only on shuttle routes. Pilots have to be certified for this specific type.
767-200.

Not Md88, spending too much on new interior, too large of a fleet to replace, and we own many of them.
Not Md90 They require a specific type to fly but they do the job in some markets and yes they are owned.
Not 777, need them to fly the long haul and they are the future.

When you look for possible planes to get rid of think of high cost due to age, fleet size, and if they are owned or leased.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3483 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5291 times:

The MD-88 isn't going anywhere. DL has 120 of em' and they're the first aircraft to be refurbished. The fleet types likely going are:

737-200
737-300
767-200
MD-90

Unless of course DL is counting the MD-11 as one of them, considering they still own 8. DL says they will increase flights by reducing aircraft by having better aircraft utilization, most likely quicker turn arounds and less ground time.

Jeremy


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

My bet is on 732, 733, MD90, and 777. The 762 shares fleet commonality, and when compared to a NW DC9, are still fairly young. The 777 hasn't shown it's need, since DL keeps deferring orders. The 763ER fleet can provide all the ETOPS lift they need. I personally think that China is Grinstein's pipe dream. Use the codeshare partners NW, KE and CZ to provide transpac lift, focus on your strength across the Atlantic. Especially if US goes CH7, there's money to be made on the Atlantic, and even to South America, using ATL as a connect point to catch the traffic CO won't get thru EWR and IAH.

User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Guy's i think we are missing the MD-11 in all our lists, since they are still owned/stored by delta. it would really make money to get them out of the desert and lease them to other airlines or just sell them...

these types are in my ''guess retirement list''

737-200's : they are just simply old and during the high fuell costs it isn't the most profitable airliner... also the maintenance cost are really high since they are showing theire age... and a lot of them reaching the max cycles very soon i guess.

767-200: for most reasons just because its getting old and i don't think Delta really needs it, they already have 757's 767-300/400 737-300/800 and some times 777 for theire USA routes.

MD-11: still owned by delta, so guess they mean the MD-11 in theire list of ''4 types to be retired''

MD-90: they don't have to much of them and think the MD-80 could simply do the MD-90 job. since the MD-90 are very popular with airlines Like SAS they could easely catch a lot of money for them..



about the 737-300, think they will stay since the aren't to old and doing theire job's correctly



greetings maurice


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26497 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

The thing about the 777s is that, unless the pull the 777s out of the desert, they are the only plane DL has that can do ATL-NRT, let alone china. Now they do make money on that NRT flight, so they need something.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

What would they use to fill the gap between the 737-800 and CR7 if they got rid of the MD-88?

The MD-88 and 738 are the same size airliner, approximately.

N


User currently offlineL104me From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4945 times:



While I agree with the consensus, it brings up a good question. If the 737-3G (or 737-300 in general) are removed, what will happen to the Delta Shuttle?

The simple answer would be to return the 737-800's, but if they couldn't fill them before, would it make sense to return the larger aircraft now?

However, if USAirways disappears, I'm sure DL wouldn't have a problem with the -800's

Hmmm..Airlines are such a interesting business!


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

Looking att his from a maintainence perspective, the first to go would be the MD-90. These have completely oddball engines (V2500) and are a relatively small fleet. Recently, the market for used MD-90s seems to be picking up, and the capacity they offer is comparable to other aircraft currently in the fleet.

737-200: These are not quite as old as people thing, some being only 16 or so years old. The basic 737 airframe has common parts with the 733, and the JT8D is not too far away from the JT8D-200s on the MD-88. The two things that would tend to keep these in the fleet are 1) low resale value on the hulls (glut of used 732s already), and 2) no other 100 seaters in the fleet.

737-300: Already addressed trhe parts comminality, and the basic CFM-56 maintanence infastructure is in place for the 738 fleet. I would actually not be suprised to see these retired before the 732s go, as the MD-88 offers capacity overlap. A big strike is the UA 733 and 735 fleet which is coming off lease and finding its way onto the second hand market.

757-200: Some of these birds are getting long in the tooth. I wouldn't be suprised to see some age related retirements to a few airframes, as some are older than the 732s.

767-200: Delta just went through a lot of trouble reactivating all the stored 767s. These are versitile, but I think we'll see the same fate as with the 752s, retirement of some of the older models. With UA and AA disposing of their 762 fleets, there is a bit of an overcapacity on the used market. If the USAF tanker deal goes through though, some may be bought for spares. Also look for impact of the 762 cargo conversion that just recently became available. This may also pick up demand in the used sector for -ER models.

The rest of the fleet will stay pretty much as is, with the exception of the MD-11 fleet which will come back in a much smaller form, especially if air cargo volumes continue to rise. Belly cargo space will be a great revenue earner for those MD-11s that haven't gone to World, been damaged (802) or back to their lessors.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1384 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

MD-88's will be around for many,many years to come and according to a few friends there it wasnt even mentioned as a candidate to go.


Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlineDeltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

From my sources it will be the 732 733 73G and MD11....

The MD11's are according to who I am talking with at DL already on their way out the door (someone is talking with DL to buy at very cheap price)

The 732's 733's and 73G's I havent really heard much about...but they all are somewhat old and need to be replaced or rid of from what I have been told...

As stated earlier DL announced intentions to go to China...the 777 or MD11 is needed for the trip...My guess the 777 will take the route...

Also rumor w/in DL is that 2-4 of the MD90s will go to Shuttle and the rest will just operate out of SLC and ATL.

The Mad Dogs aren't going anywhere (with exception the the Tri-jet)


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4883 times:

The 777 hasn't shown it's need

They need them for half of their current Asian service, not to mention potential future



since DL keeps deferring orders.

DL's deferring orders because it cannot get preferential finance rates, not because it doesn't have a use for the aircraft.




User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Here are my definitive guesses:

737-200/300/300 Glass - The -300 can be replaced pretty easily by the MD-80 (its about another 10 seats...); the -200 will be gone by 2008, so that's another one.

767-200 - This plane is getting up there in age, some are over 20 years old already. I wouldn't be shocked if this plane went.

I think the MD-90s will stay. I have heard a rumour that they would be placing these on the Shuttle, which wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion. They would probably seat about 140 in a single class Shuttle configuration, which would be a good capacity (about halfway between the 73Gs and 738s). They have monitors, which is good for short subject programming (they could show CNN news on that). They have the rear exit, like the old 727s, that could be used to expedite deplaning. Pretty much the only thing they would need is Powerports for laptops...

The MD-88s are here to stay. They are retrofitting them, and they are the backbone of the East Coast network. I don't see them leaving until 5 years from now at the earliest, but not anytime before then.

Jeff


User currently offlineD950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

This may sound silly, but since the MD90 has a decent video/sound system, couldn't DL fit these into the SONG scenario on routes that require less seats than a 757??


Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2032 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4626 times:
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Why would they announce just a few months ago that they will resume the delivery of the 777's in a few years and now get rid of them? Doesn't make sense, they aren't going anywhere, much to many peoples dismay they need them.

I would say, 732 and 762 definately. Maybe they will add some CR9's to take place of the 732, what kind of extra training do the flight crews need for CR9's as compared to the CRJ/CR7? I'm not going to speculate on the others too much, but probably the 733's (and the other "variant" of them) and MD-90 or MD-11 (if they are still counting them as being "in the fleet and needing crews for them".

Also, like others have said why would the MD-88's be going anywhere if they are going to put that kind of money into them?

We will know in due time.  Smile


25 Gigneil : I think the MD-90s will stay. I have heard a rumour that they would be placing these on the Shuttle, which wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion. I ag
26 Carpethead : DOT will not award routes to a carrier whose fleet that can barely cover the Asian route. AA has loads of 777s operating and some close to delivery. C
27 Gigneil : I hope they rescind this decision. Why would they? Didn't the CEO of this company say something about re-evaluating RJ flying. Yes, he said he wanted
28 Post contains links Phx757 : Delta's Current Fleet : From http://av-info.faa.gov/OpCert.asp Aircraft - Number in Fleet B-737-200 - 49 B-737-300 - 26 B-737-800 - 71 B-757-200 - 121
29 TheGov : Just a couple of points to ponder: Some posters have mentioned that they thought the 737-800 would be removed. I disagree with this as I believe DL op
30 Gigneil : I disagree with this as I believe DL opted for the -800 as a replacement for the 727. DL opted for the 757 as a replacment for the 727. They then dec
31 Ual777contrail : PHX757, How many of their 777's are owned by them? You never answered that question, unless I wasn't paying attention. UAL 777 CONTRAIL
32 Syncmaster : I think they own them all, but don't quote me on that.
33 WidgetBoi : All of the 777s are owned by Delta. jeremy
34 Panamair : Yes, all eight 777s are owned.
35 BigOrange : Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the MD-11's are in the desert, then are they not retired anyway, just waiting for someone to come along and p
36 D950 : If they move the 90's to the shuttle, USeless Air can watch my dust!!
37 ConcordeBoy : CO has no long-haul aircraft on order nor DL. Wrong.
38 Bubbinski : If Delta retires their 762's, at least I got to fly on one of them late last month (from SLC-SEA). The one I was on did look old on the inside, though
39 Dvk : I think retirement of the 732/733 and 762 are givens (the former because of lease expirations, the latter because of age). I suspect the fourth type r
40 Keesje : Well, lets forget investing for long term efficient solutions for now. no 736, 717, 7e7´s What can they sell to survive the next 6 months ? selling 7
41 Dutchjet : My guess is as follows: 737-200s, 737-300s and 737-300Glass Cockpit and the MD11s leave the DL fleet. MD-88s are getting the new interior look. MD-90s
42 ConcordeBoy : Who knows... maybe DL will finally send some of the 764ERs over the pond, perhaps even in their current configuration (a la American 752) That'd be pr
43 Post contains images Dl757md : Syncmaster brings up an interesting proposition...Maybe they will add some CR9's to take place of the 732, what kind of extra training do the flight c
44 SESGDL : What DL should do is pull MD-88s and 737-200 off of routes like CVG-CMH, CVG-CLE, CVG-IND, ATL-SAV, ATL-HSV, and put larger aircraft from those routes
45 Post contains images Akjetblue : In thinking about the MD-11s I noticed that when DL sent the MD-11s to be stored in the desert or at Mirabel the DL titles weren't taken off as they h
46 Post contains links STT757 : Aviation week says DL will retire.. 50 737-200s, 26 737-300s, 16 767-200s, and either 13 MD-11s (already parked) or 16 M90s. http://www.aviationnow.co
47 Aa777jr : No carrier that wants to make a profit would retire a T7 man!!! haha, AA777jr
48 DeltaGuy : The question for all of this is WHEN...if they ditch the 732's, they lose ALOT of capacity. Ditch the 762's, they lose an excellent transcontinental h
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