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US Airways May File Chap. 11 On Sunday  
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

There's been a post on an HP Yahoo! Message Board (linked below) that apparently the New York Times will report in tomorrow's edition that US Airways will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Sunday.

More to come, I guess...

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7080664&tid=awa&sid=7080664&mid=76062



N670UW

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1981 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8268 times:

N670UW,

It's also being reported on the Drudge site apparently, with a possible shutdown being discussed (word of mouth from someone here in the office tonight, I don't read that website)...

JSD



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8263 times:

Aren't they still in Chapter 11? Or did they scratch and claw they're way out of that all ready? Some how I don't believe this will be a chapter 11 filing...as creditors are probably growing very weary of not getting they're money back. This will probably be chapter 7, not chapter 11. This is the beginning of the end for US. Sorry to all those employees on this board he denied this will happen, but I'd start looking in the paper, or at the un-employment office for something else. Good luck guys.

User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8250 times:

Aren't they still in Chapter 11?

No. They haven't been in over a year: they emerged March 31, 2003.

---

It's also being reported on the Drudge site apparently

I saw that also (though I don't frequent Drudge's website):

"US AIRWAYS appears all but certain to file for bankruptcy protection Sunday... Developing... "
http://www.drudgereport.com/


N670UW


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8237 times:

If a Chapter 7 filing is in the works for US, I pass my thoughts onto those employees that will soon be in the Un-Employment office. I feel for them because I did contract baggage handling for US Express for over a year and know what those people are going through as our citys US station shut down.


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7553 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

Word inside the industry, if they file Chapter 11, its over, if thats the case, my condolences to US Airways Employee's, I wish you the best  Sad


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8190 times:

A Chapter 11 filing would be a violation of the ATSB loan guarantee terms. However, according to that message board post (not that I'm certain it's fact or anything), the ATSB would be willing to let US operate in Chap. 11 if the bankruptcy goes well. I guess Sunday will tell all...

N670VJ


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8141 times:

Sunday is what I'm hearing too, assuming the RC4 don't come to their senses (during the emergency MEC meeting tomorrow).

The ATSB shouldn't be a problem.

[Edited 2004-09-10 06:12:29]


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

NY Times Article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/business/10airways.html?ei=5006&en=2c9ee10fb94f099c&ex=1095393600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

Hopefully they can work something out with their unions to prevent Ch. 11.

[Edited 2004-09-10 06:17:18]

User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8050 times:

If they do file again, which it looks like they will, you can kiss them goodbye  Sad


"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8036 times:

Should be interesting...I'm flying back from CLT-PHL on Sunday. I'm scheduled to fly them on Oct. 16 PHL- SFO as well. If I understand the article correctly though, there's still some hope. Best wishes to USAirways.


You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineCmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 995 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

This is bad for USAirways but good for the industry. Something has to happen, there is just to much capacity right now.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7986 times:

This is bad for USAirways but good for the industry. Something has to happen, there is just to much capacity right now.

Once again someone is viewing things from the wrong perspective. There is perhaps too much capacity in the industry right now, overall, but not in all markets. In general, the collapse of US Airways would only have a positive effect in markets where US Airways competes with other airlines. Thus, not factoring in connecting traffic, the biggest gains in the collapse of US Airways would be made by airlines that operate from LGA, DCA and BOS. A substantial chunk of PHL and CLT has no non-stop competition, and US will still be the largest player at PIT even with the downgrading of PIT to a focus city.

When you consider connecting traffic the gains of a US Airways collapse do become more widespread. Then again O&D traffic apparently is more profitable individually speaking than connecting traffic. In general though, I don't think anyone will benefit that much from US Airways failing, considering the general dominance of US Airways at their two largest markets, PHL and CLT.

Also bear in mind that if US Airways does go out of business, the consumer stands to loose big time, as fares on a substantial number of markets where US Airways is currently a competitor would in all probability be increased, to adjust for the reduced supply.

-WGW2707


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7792 times:

Also bear in mind that if US Airways does go out of business, the consumer stands to loose big time, as fares on a substantial number of markets where US Airways is currently a competitor would in all probability be increased, to adjust for the reduced supply.

You're not looking at the big picture. The big picture is there are too many airlines in the US, too much capacity, and too much competition, which results in fares that are too low to be self-sustaining for anybody. The consumer doesn't win anything if everybody goes out of business because the fares are too low; eventually, the fares have to straighten themselves out one way or another. Right now we're in the cycle of business whereby everybody knows a couple of airlines are going to be out and they're all just playing hot potato, trying to ride it out and make sure it happens to the other guy. But it's inevitable, and it has to happen. If it doesn't happen, the only other solution is re-regulation. (Which would mean even higher fares.) You cannot have a business where there is more supply than there is demand.

Free market economies exist based on the theory of natural selection. Well, this is natural selection at work. Everybody loves capitalism when everybody's making money but this is the inevitable ugly side of it. Nobody's guaranteed a job, and no company is guaranteed by the government to stay in business (well, unless you're a member of the RIAA, but that's a post for another forum). If the laws of supply and demand catch up with you before they catch up with your competitors, you're out.

I don't know what's going to happen this Sunday and I don't know if another bankruptcy would be the end of US Air. But the end will come for someone, sometime fairly soon, and that will be the beginning of this industry nursing its way back to health.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Spacecadet-
Well said. Could not have stated it better myself. WG2707 is only 16-20, but needs a class in airline economics!


User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7262 times:

I know that lousy feeling of uncertainty; not knowing if you are going to have a job tomarrow. Best of luck to everyone at U. Hopefully things will work out for all of you.

User currently offlineCBphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7177 times:

My thoughts are with all of the US Airways employees. I had the wonderful opportunity to fly US Airways this past August from MSP-PIT-ROA-CLT-MSP, and every flight I flew on was a great one. No problems what so ever, and the crew were all really nice. Good Luck to everyone!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineAZjetgeek From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 235 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6933 times:

I also offer my hopes and prayers for the employees of USAirways. While Spacecadet makes valid points concerning the excess capacity within the industry, there are NO winners when an airline goes into Chapt. 11. The fact that Chapt. 7 is even being discussed is an indication that US could be history in the near future.

It's not just the US employees who will suffer. Those who will be caught up in the wake of a Chapt. 7 include creditors, vendors, airport employees, etc. Given US' financial situation, it would appear quite unlikely that any other American carrier would be capable of stepping up and either merging or buying out US. Whether or not there is a foreign carrier willing to step up and "rescue" US is a topic that I have yet to see discussed in this forum.

In the event US were to go into Chapt. 7, there will be others to take its place. Either existing airlines will take over their routes, or an upstart will take its chances in the market. Success in the industry depends partially on the availability of opportunities. DL, which is closing its DFW hub as part of its restructuring, could step in at CLT, using it as a focus city, or designate it as a hub for Song. Another possible player in that market could be WN, which could further expand its business in the Southeastern U.S.

Still, I believe that US would be missed, if solely on sentiment.





Long live the RJ!
User currently offlineJc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6875 times:

Is there an advantage to filing on a Sunday, as opposed to any other day of the week?


If not now, then when?
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6850 times:

... Thank you Union leaders once again for putting thousands out of work... Union leaders industry-wide should be lynched for their rampant idiocy.


"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3344 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6645 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

from a Aviation digest, i get on email... US will be filing on Sunday for Ch.11 ...

i wish all US employees the best ...



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6558 times:

All I can say is that even though this was probably going to happen,

My best goes to all the USAirways employees. Hopefully another airline will be gracious enough to welcome them aboard, but judging the way things are going now, its gonna be rough.

So for all you guys who won't be seeing very many of these, I give you this:  Smile

Good luck,
DLKAPA


User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6445 times:

Any chance that the patient can die before everyone here arranges the funeral?

USAirways appointed a new VP for restructuring only 7 days ago. I find it hard to believe someone would walk from a secure FAA post into a company with only days to go. Chapter 11 would not necessarily mean liquidation at this stage as their August results didn't look too bad at all. This could just be another trip to BK (or the threat of it) as leverage to close down some open issues which are dragging along.


User currently offlineBh From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 525 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

Flybyguy
... Thank you Union leaders once again for putting thousands out of work... Union leaders industry-wide should be lynched for their rampant idiocy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not that i am taking a side but think about it. If SomeOne said give me five dollars now and they will give you back 8 in 2 days and they dont evin give it to you but ask for even more would you do it.

Yes its bad that these people will loose their jobs but this is a repeat for US employees its not the first time. Its time for them to consider their future....Is this companys chances of survival good enough that they should give them more or is it for the worst.

What would you say if all these Union People voted to give up more money and the company still fails.. Now you Not only have people without jobs these people will be in even a worse finacial postion than if they didnt give up more.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6775 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

I have to agree that if US goes under, it will be detrimental. US serves a LOT of airports that do not have other scheduled carriers. Many of these cities may be picked up by other airliens, but the likely East Coast airline would be Delta, which is also in trouble and not in the position to expand. I beleive that US needs to remain a viable carrier. It may need to degrade some in order to build itself up, but it needs to remain. Many small airports rely on US.


Aiming High and going far..
25 Aa717driver : The advantage to filing on Sunday is that all the creditors will be in the Hamptons or at their box seats at Flushing Meadows... Flybyguy--Save the "t
26 Okie : With the Retirment Systems of Alabama holding a majority of the boards seats and a large portion of the debt load they just might file chaper 7. All l
27 I15846375 : I am reading all this about asking the unions for some compensation, what has upper management and the CEO offered in return, what kind of compensati
28 N79969 : The meaningful loss will be for employees and not consumers. In markets where USAirways operates, other airlines will meet demand in the long run. Far
29 Clipperaurora : I'd like to thank the Union members for being SO brilliant, your stupidity and cocky attitudes is costing you your job and 20,000 others. you would th
30 Cancidas : some of you really need to learn to read. it says "apparently," meaning nothing is for certain. ever think that the media isn't right?
31 CALMSP : any US employees or anyone else know the age for their fleet of 762's & 757's? Anticipating possible liquidation, would these be up on the block?
32 N670UW : any US employees or anyone else know the age for their fleet of 762's & 757's? 10 of the 31 757's are ex-Eastern (the 757-225's) and were delivered to
33 N79969 : Aa717Driver has a point. A lot of what is occurring now is the fault of past leadership. No question. But that is the past and has no bearing on the d
34 Smcmac32msn : USAirways appointed a new VP for restructuring only 7 days ago. I find it hard to believe someone would walk from a secure FAA post into a company wit
35 Gigneil : Doesn't USAirways airplanes on order from Airbus and Bombardier (via GECAS)? A fair number of each. They did consolidate many outstanding orders into
36 Gkpetery : I'm wondering which airlines would be able to take over US Airways routes if they go completely under? United, it's Star Alliance partner, and former
37 GREATANSETT : I thought that when an airline emerges from chapter 11 they need to prove that they are financially sound for the immediate present and future?
38 UAL747DEN : I don't feel sorry for the employees of US at all. They made this decision, if they would have just voted to give back they would not have to start lo
39 Scxmechanic : What people forget is that the employees of USAirways have given back twice and what did management do with those give backs? They blew it! The IAM an
40 Dutchjet : A couple of points......note that another bankruptcy filing for US will create huge financial problems for the airline, it will be very difficult, if
41 NWAFA : Flybyguy, Your comment about Unions is total WRONG and BS! My heart goes out to each and every employee of US and their family memebers. You have been
42 Bucky707 : "Sunday is what I'm hearing too, assuming the RC4 don't come to their senses (during the emergency MEC meeting tomorrow)." I think the RC4 have come t
43 Frugalqxnwa : Flybyguy, I am by no means a fan of labor unions, but please check recent history before going off unilaterally about all unions. AA unions were smart
44 Planemaker : "Doesn't USAirways airplanes on order from... Bombardier (via GECAS)?" "I am unaware of which Bombardier orders did survive." The agreement with US Ai
45 NKP S2 : Thanks for your support 'scxmechanic'. Reading the vitriol reminds me of the phrase of someone "who knows just enough to be dangerous"...or the adage
46 B727 : UsAirways is the main carrier out of SYR, they have been raking us over the coals for the past decade. With the help of TMA and jetBlue prices have go
47 Dadoftyler : Oh, My God. I actually agree with a post by NWAFA!!!! You can't logically put this at the unions' feet. I agree that there has to be a minimum of what
48 Slider : Dutchjet- great post, very well reasoned all the way around. It's that kind of analysis that makes sense, not this "it's the unions fault" or "it's ma
49 Freshlove1 : LOW COST CARRIERS KILLING YOU, nobody is ever going to make 250000 a year anymore . True to a point but if the majors fail, like US, DL or possibly UA
50 Bh : Miss management sums this up. When i was working there in my final days and they where saying they had very little money I remeber one of our weekly n
51 A330323X : Doesn't USAirways airplanes on order from Airbus and Bombardier (via GECAS)? The agreement with US Airways on a revised delivery schedule called for 2
52 Frugalqxnwa : Personnally, I am surprised US is getting two 70-seaters, the CR7 and E170. What are their plans for each type? Are both for express carriers or are t
53 SHUPirate1 : US Airways plans on keeping the E70's...the CR7's are currently flying for PSA, however, US Airways plans to sell them (I believe to Mesa) if they can
54 A330323X : the CR7's are currently flying for PSA, however, US Airways plans to sell them (I believe to Mesa) if they can ever get scope clause relief US has sco
55 Scxmechanic : NKP S2, No problem.. It just makes me sick to see this happen to the fine people of US. I know I work for the competition but what happens to you guys
56 Highflier92660 : US Airways labor plight has the same historic ingredients that we've seen over the years, older higher paid employees with higher seniority (and proba
57 Lfutia : i think that US has way too many hubs in the Northeast. I think that if they had a hub more farther west they actually might be a tad better. PHL and
58 Beachthing : Every problem mentioned here is an example of either bad management in general or bad management specific to the airline biz.
59 Greasespot : I see all these people in here armchairing. Lets see how much they complain when they are asked to take a roll back not once...Not twice but a third t
60 Psa53 : US has filed BK for a second time. They will still fly,according to the news. News is bleak,as usual,saying US won't survive past the year. On the Yah
61 Flairport : I'm glad i'm going DL to GSO in November....I don't want to take a risk with Us Airways at this time. How will this effect their new FLL "hub"?
62 Luv2fly : By November DL could be right next to US and UA, who knows others could be there as well.
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