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KLM Downunder?  
User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Rumour has it that KLM plans to re-start the SYD-route. Can anyone confirm this?


22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3365 times:

Where have you heard this rumor? I haven't heard anything within KLM and as far as I know they have an excellent deal with Malaysia Airlines where they fly pax from KUL to the land down under.


GlobeTrekker



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

KLM offers excellt connections with the codeshare via KUL on MH to all their destination in New Zealand and Australia.


Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

The reason why KL pulled out of Australia was because the route was not profitable anymore for KL. The KUL hub with MAS is working just fine for KL

Regards,
AMS


User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

The connections offered in KUL to Australia from the KL flight from AMS are nowhere near as good as those from the MH flight. I know that KL places its code on the MH flight from AMS, but still KL could have timed its flights better for connections onwards from KUL.

User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

KLM tried to retime its flight and for 6 months not too long ago - KLM operated AMS-KUL return arriving KUL in the morning and returning to AMS as a daylight flight. This was not profitable for KLM as it also clashed with MAS' daily flight out of Amsterdam. It only gave the benefit of a morning departure out of KL for passengers arriving from Melbourne or Sydney.

Melbourne and Sydney passengers can also opt for the evening arrival into KUL to connect on to KLMs Amsterdam service so KLM decided to retime its flight and continue linking KUL with another Asian city.

Passengers who wish to break their journey at Kuala Lumpur have the option of flying on KL807 (or KL809 soon) but another important factor is also the fact that KL807/809 leaves Amsterdam in the evening - which caters to a lot of connecting passengers from UK/Europe and the US, who connect at AMS for KUL and no further.


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User currently offlineMdutch From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2970 times:


I have heard this rumour within KLM several times, first time from a captain that supposedly spoke to the BKK station manager.... there are several rumours going on at the moment (return to SCL EZE SYD etc) but they are nothing but rumours right now.....


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

its very unlikely this will happen, since Malaysian airlines is operating this route in codeshare with KLM, passengers can fly with MAS to malaysia with a 747-400 and from malaysia to Australia with a 777.

i don't see KLM restart this very costly route...




greetings maurice


User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2768 times:

Thanks guys!

My info comes from an "insider" and I was quite surprised too! I know that KLM had a lot of low yield pax on their direct SYD service and that it had limited traffic rights from SIN to SYD.
I guess we'll see.....

Robin


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5245 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

Perhaps if the timed an Air France SIN flight timed with a KL SIN flight and the KL flight contiued onto SYD it could work. They are 2 airlines working as one now???



User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Yes, I agree with ANstar. As I have said before, the merger with AF changes the equation quite a bit. When you've got two whole flights (from AMS and CDG, in this case) to SIN/KUL/BKK/etc., timed to connect to just one continuing flight to SYD, the SYD service is much more likely to be profitable than if it is just a simple one-stop service without any additional feed.

If that ever happens and is successful, then I could even imagine a follow-on scenario where AF operates CDG-SYD and KL operates AMS-MEL (or vice versa), with the two flights timed to connect to each other at some Southeast Asian city.

I have no inside information on this--it's just pure speculation on how the merger might allow previously unprofitable routes to be operated successfully this time around.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Anyone remembers how KLM, at the time of the cooperation with Alitalia in the late 90s was operating a cycle AMS-SIN-SYD-SIN-MXP-SIN-SYD-SIN-AMS, where the same plane would operate a KLM flight AMS-SYD, followed by an AZ-rotation SYD-MXP-SYD before heading back to AMS? That cycle took the aircraft 6 full days to complete.

After the cooperation with Alitalia was dissolved, KLM again reinstated the thrice weekly AMS-SIN-SYD flights, and, just before abandoning service to SYD in favor of a code share operation with MH, KLM even added a fourth weekly frequency to SYD, which, strangely enough, operated through KUL, while the other 3 operated via SIN.



User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Hello,


There is one thing that you forgot here: Air France has reached a code-share agreement with Qantas (on 18 June 2004) for Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane, Darwin, Melbourne and Perth as well as SIN-CDG legs (QF is pulling out of CDG).

Air France is revising its CDG-SIN schedules to reduce connecting times as well as upgrading the flight from a 777-200ER to a -300ER from 31 October. The SIN-CGK leg is being handed-over to KLM.

Current schedules
CDG-SIN 19:25 14:05 (Flt. time: 12:40)
SIN-CDG 23:00 06:20 (13:20)

New schedules
CDG-SIN 23:15 12:25 (12:25)
SIN-CDG 23:30 06:15 (12:45)

There is already an over-capacity on the Kangaroo Routes (in their broader definition that is) and hardly any room for KLM or Air France to operate flights to Australia with their own metal IMHO.


Best regards,
Alain Mengus
AirTransportBiz.com


User currently offlineKlmyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2206 times:

Ain't gonna happen. (Heard it from sjonnie on the ramp, who heard it from Piet in Ops, who heard it from Remco who is sleeping with the PA of one of the big boys in amstelveen) So there!

User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2051 times:

If you ask me it would make far more sense for AF to start a CDG-KUL and the three airlines (MH, KL and AF) could take on STAR and Oneworld for the Europe-Oz/NZ routes.

Air France had already started placing its code on KLM flights to KUL since the merger started but perhaps the missing link for AF would be the CDG-KUL route.


User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

-KLMyank;

You mean to tell me that PA is cheating on me with Remco?!!

That b*tch!!!  Angry

GlobeTrekker  Laugh out loud



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

If you ask me it would make far more sense for AF to start a CDG-KUL and the three airlines (MH, KL and AF) could take on STAR and Oneworld for the Europe-Oz/NZ routes.

I wonder if this KLM-MH cooperation is really generating as much traffic as it's said to be. If it were to do so, wouldn't one expect KLM to operate daily into KUL, and do so with dedicated flights rather than with flights shared with another destination?

True, MH operates a daily B744 on the AMS-KUL run, but wouldn't one expect KL to do the same? KL until now has only 5 weekly frequencies into KUL, and they are shared with MNL, soon to be replaced by CGK. In the coming winter schedule SIN, not KUL, will receive dedicated AMS flights 5 times a week, while only 2 SIN flights will remain shared with CGK. A clear sign that, even with the MH-cooperation ex KUL, SIN is performing better for KL than KUL does...



User currently offlineOdie From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

I believe KL will commence daily flights into KUL from July 2005 (it's still tagged to CGK though). While KL continues to operate 2 weekly flight to CGK via SIN, these flights do not offer connections from CDG to CGK via SIN. AF arrives into SIN at 6:40 pm while KL's flight to CGK departs at 4:50 pm (for winter 2004 schedules). I guess passengers who want to fly to CGK from CDG will have to transit in AMS for KL 809 instead.

User currently offlineDakota From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

KLM-director Peter Hartman is saying in an article in newspaper De Telegraaf (march 2004):

"We mogen als mondiale alliantie in dat werelddeel niet blijven ontbreken. Een terugkeer in Australië, waarover wordt nagedacht, zou ook een positief gevolg zijn van de aanstaande fusie met Air France. Straks zal er daardoor vrijwel geen punt op de wereld meer zijn, waar je straks via onze alliantie niet van Schiphol naar toe kunt vliegen."

In English:
"As an international airline alliance we can't be without that continent (Australia). A return to Australia, where we are thinking about, would be a postive effect of the coming merger with Air France. In future, there will not be any part of the world where you can't fly to from Schiphol with our alliance."

It is not very clear he is meaning a return to Australia by KLM itself or by another member of Skyteam...


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

Quote : In future, there will not be any part of the world where you can't fly to from Schiphol with our alliance.

Sounds very clear if you ask me. Our alliance = Malaysia Airlines  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineKlmyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1588 times:

Globetrekker...Not just Remco...many many others!!!!!!!

User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

HB-IWC:

Well I flew AMS-KUL return in May which is traditionally 'low' season and both flights were full to the brim. KL807 was full with 3/4 World Business Class disembarking at KUL and MH16 on the return was full with about 50% passengers in transit for Scandinavia, Spain and other parts of Europe. Also worth mentioning that KL808 than night was also full and both flights had large numbers who had earlier arrived from Australia and NZ. My next flights with KLM (KL807/810) are already looking busy for late October - again only a 'shoulder' season.

So I guess they must be doing quite well. Don't forget KLM and MAS have 12 flights a week between them on the AMS-KUL run (as oppose to 7 weekly to SIN), with plans to go twice daily next year - hence KLM doesn't need to dedicated any flights to KUL and can continue to pair KUL with another city to make the route even more economical (instead of having the aircraft sit in KUL for half a day).


User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1427 times:

Well, things are changing ..

Maybe the enlarged Skyteam (now including KLM, NWA & Co) can at some point strike a good deal with Qantas.

Combined Skyteam volumes could open some new opportunities for the increasingly independent Qantas.


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