Nickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1481 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3053 times:
The connections offered in KUL to Australia from the KL flight from AMS are nowhere near as good as those from the MH flight. I know that KL places its code on the MH flight from AMS, but still KL could have timed its flights better for connections onwards from KUL.
Mas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2926 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
KLM tried to retime its flight and for 6 months not too long ago - KLM operated AMS-KUL return arriving KUL in the morning and returning to AMS as a daylight flight. This was not profitable for KLM as it also clashed with MAS' daily flight out of Amsterdam. It only gave the benefit of a morning departure out of KL for passengers arriving from Melbourne or Sydney.
Melbourne and Sydney passengers can also opt for the evening arrival into KUL to connect on to KLMs Amsterdam service so KLM decided to retime its flight and continue linking KUL with another Asian city.
Passengers who wish to break their journey at Kuala Lumpur have the option of flying on KL807 (or KL809 soon) but another important factor is also the fact that KL807/809 leaves Amsterdam in the evening - which caters to a lot of connecting passengers from UK/Europe and the US, who connect at AMS for KUL and no further.
Mdutch From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 144 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2750 times:
I have heard this rumour within KLM several times, first time from a captain that supposedly spoke to the BKK station manager.... there are several rumours going on at the moment (return to SCL EZE SYD etc) but they are nothing but rumours right now.....
MauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2733 times:
its very unlikely this will happen, since Malaysian airlines is operating this route in codeshare with KLM, passengers can fly with MAS to malaysia with a 747-400 and from malaysia to Australia with a 777.
AA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 504 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2548 times:
My info comes from an "insider" and I was quite surprised too! I know that KLM had a lot of low yield pax on their direct SYD service and that it had limited traffic rights from SIN to SYD.
I guess we'll see.....
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2902 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2467 times:
Yes, I agree with ANstar. As I have said before, the merger with AF changes the equation quite a bit. When you've got two whole flights (from AMS and CDG, in this case) to SIN/KUL/BKK/etc., timed to connect to just one continuing flight to SYD, the SYD service is much more likely to be profitable than if it is just a simple one-stop service without any additional feed.
If that ever happens and is successful, then I could even imagine a follow-on scenario where AF operates CDG-SYD and KL operates AMS-MEL (or vice versa), with the two flights timed to connect to each other at some Southeast Asian city.
I have no inside information on this--it's just pure speculation on how the merger might allow previously unprofitable routes to be operated successfully this time around.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4450 posts, RR: 74 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2081 times:
Anyone remembers how KLM, at the time of the cooperation with Alitalia in the late 90s was operating a cycle AMS-SIN-SYD-SIN-MXP-SIN-SYD-SIN-AMS, where the same plane would operate a KLM flight AMS-SYD, followed by an AZ-rotation SYD-MXP-SYD before heading back to AMS? That cycle took the aircraft 6 full days to complete.
After the cooperation with Alitalia was dissolved, KLM again reinstated the thrice weekly AMS-SIN-SYD flights, and, just before abandoning service to SYD in favor of a code share operation with MH, KLM even added a fourth weekly frequency to SYD, which, strangely enough, operated through KUL, while the other 3 operated via SIN.
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 27 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2064 times:
There is one thing that you forgot here: Air France has reached a code-share agreement with Qantas (on 18 June 2004) for Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane, Darwin, Melbourne and Perth as well as SIN-CDG legs (QF is pulling out of CDG).
Air France is revising its CDG-SIN schedules to reduce connecting times as well as upgrading the flight from a 777-200ER to a -300ER from 31 October. The SIN-CGK leg is being handed-over to KLM.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4450 posts, RR: 74 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1625 times:
If you ask me it would make far more sense for AF to start a CDG-KUL and the three airlines (MH, KL and AF) could take on STAR and Oneworld for the Europe-Oz/NZ routes.
I wonder if this KLM-MH cooperation is really generating as much traffic as it's said to be. If it were to do so, wouldn't one expect KLM to operate daily into KUL, and do so with dedicated flights rather than with flights shared with another destination?
True, MH operates a daily B744 on the AMS-KUL run, but wouldn't one expect KL to do the same? KL until now has only 5 weekly frequencies into KUL, and they are shared with MNL, soon to be replaced by CGK. In the coming winter schedule SIN, not KUL, will receive dedicated AMS flights 5 times a week, while only 2 SIN flights will remain shared with CGK. A clear sign that, even with the MH-cooperation ex KUL, SIN is performing better for KL than KUL does...
Odie From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1601 times:
I believe KL will commence daily flights into KUL from July 2005 (it's still tagged to CGK though). While KL continues to operate 2 weekly flight to CGK via SIN, these flights do not offer connections from CDG to CGK via SIN. AF arrives into SIN at 6:40 pm while KL's flight to CGK departs at 4:50 pm (for winter 2004 schedules). I guess passengers who want to fly to CGK from CDG will have to transit in AMS for KL 809 instead.
Dakota From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1499 times:
KLM-director Peter Hartman is saying in an article in newspaper De Telegraaf (march 2004):
"We mogen als mondiale alliantie in dat werelddeel niet blijven ontbreken. Een terugkeer in Australië, waarover wordt nagedacht, zou ook een positief gevolg zijn van de aanstaande fusie met Air France. Straks zal er daardoor vrijwel geen punt op de wereld meer zijn, waar je straks via onze alliantie niet van Schiphol naar toe kunt vliegen."
"As an international airline alliance we can't be without that continent (Australia). A return to Australia, where we are thinking about, would be a postive effect of the coming merger with Air France. In future, there will not be any part of the world where you can't fly to from Schiphol with our alliance."
It is not very clear he is meaning a return to Australia by KLM itself or by another member of Skyteam...
Mas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2926 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1301 times:
Well I flew AMS-KUL return in May which is traditionally 'low' season and both flights were full to the brim. KL807 was full with 3/4 World Business Class disembarking at KUL and MH16 on the return was full with about 50% passengers in transit for Scandinavia, Spain and other parts of Europe. Also worth mentioning that KL808 than night was also full and both flights had large numbers who had earlier arrived from Australia and NZ. My next flights with KLM (KL807/810) are already looking busy for late October - again only a 'shoulder' season.
So I guess they must be doing quite well. Don't forget KLM and MAS have 12 flights a week between them on the AMS-KUL run (as oppose to 7 weekly to SIN), with plans to go twice daily next year - hence KLM doesn't need to dedicated any flights to KUL and can continue to pair KUL with another city to make the route even more economical (instead of having the aircraft sit in KUL for half a day).