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Air Guinee Express Boeing Crash - Exclusive Pics!  
User currently offlineLuchtzak From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 468 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

Hi all,

yesterday some exclusive pics where dropped in my mailbox, have a look: Air Guinee Express Crash 11 August 2004

Read on for more info about the incident: Air Guinee Express Boeing 737 crash - exclusive pictures!

greetings,

Bart
Note: I wanted to look for a topic about this incident but the search-function didn't work (slow, then non-responsive)

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

Where did it happen?

User currently offlineFJWH From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6936 times:

Oh Yeah, she's W/O alright! But already something about the cause? What did actually happened? Skidded of the runway? "nice" pictures BTW.

Tjap



FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
User currently offlineLuchtzak From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6910 times:

Just after take-off one engine out, returned to Freetown, Sierra Leone. Went of the runway (swampy underground) and stopped at the end (beginning) of the runway.

Here is a passenger-witness letter: http://allafrica.com/stories/200408170491.html


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6866 times:

Based upon this photo http://coppermine.luchtzak.be/displayimage.php?album=249&pos=11 showing the aircraft's engine pointing the opposite direction from the aircraft's direction of travel, plus one of the messages mentioning that the engine "fell off in mid-air", I'd say you could be looking a case of a failure of the aft cone bolt, one of three that attaches the engine to the wing. There are two forward, and one, aft, and should the aft fail, there's only a steel cable/restraining strap to keep the aft end of the engine from dropping down too far. If that cable fails as well, the aft end of the engine can drop further and contact the ground, or even separate from the aircraft itself.

There have been numerous 737-200 engine separations caused by aft conebolt failures over the years, mainly in the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s. Piedmont (pre-USAir merger) had one at ORD. USAir themselves had one at PHL. Delta had one at DFW. In all of these cases, the aircraft was taking off, and the separated engine impacted on/near the runway used. Southwest had the aft bolt failure on one at DAL, but the strap held and they returned to land with the engine still on the wing. There were others elsewhere, but the aforementioned ones are the only that come immediately to mind.

Tightening up the inspection intervals and replacing all the conebolts more frequently seemed to make these kinds of engine separations pretty rare over here, but of course, maintenance standards can easily vary around the world.



This is the one that Delta had back in 1992: http://aviation-safety.net/database/1992/920107-1.htm

[Edited 2004-09-11 19:10:12]

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6858 times:

ooh... what a bumer, sad end for such a classic. The 737 can take a lot of damage and keep on ticking, but that looks like a total write-off.

Did GOL return the 73G they banged up into service?-

http://aviation-safety.net/database/2003/031220-1.htm


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Aviation-safety.net only had 1 of the 4 cone bolt-related accidents that I recalled in their database, so I found the others at the NTSB's site.

Note the sequence of events in the Delta and Piedmont events, and where the separated engines ended up.

Jan 1992 Delta DFW
Engine separated after takeoff about 200 feet off the ground. Engine landed in the immediate vicinity of the runway.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X13985&key=1

Jan 1989 Piedmont ORD
Engine separated right at takeoff (liftoff?), and landed on the runway.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X27558&key=1

Dec 1987 USAir PHL
Engine separated after takeoff, at about 4,000 feet, and landed across the state line in New Jersey.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X32769&key=1

Jan 1986 Southwest DAL
Not mentioned when problem first noticed. The back-up strap -did- fail, but the aft end of the engine -did-drop, but did not separate.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010110X00187&key=1




User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

OPNLguy,

Ordinarily I find your posts well though out, but this time I think you're on good drugs!!

You expect me to believe that the cone bolt fails, engine comes off in midair, takes the starboard gear and half the right horizontal stab with it. Then our pilot, "Aviation Superman", manages a feat of aviation derring do to get the plane back down on the grass, intact, and skids to a stop only 600 meters away!! That's FUNNY!

I think it's more likely that Aviation Superman lost control on takeoff (for reason as yet unknown) and veered off the left side. Right gear and starboard engine come off due to structural overload and remove right horizontal stab in the process. Aircraft skids, loses it's nosegear and comes to a stop.

SATL382G


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6465 times:

>>>You expect me to believe that the cone bolt fails, engine comes off in midair, takes the starboard gear and half the right horizontal stab with it.

No, but I never said nor inferred that a departing engine took out the starboard gear and right horizontal stabilizer, you did.

Based upon (1) the passenger statement that there was a "big boom" and (2) that an engine fell off in mid-air, and (3) that engines -have- separated from other 737-200s at/immediately after takeoff before (see Delta and Piedmont), and (4) the location of the engine's final resting place versus that of the fuselage, all my original message said was that this "could" be a case of an aft cone bolt failure. Not 100% yes. Not 100% no. Just that it "could" have, as in the context of being the initiating event.

To be sure, there are other things that could have caused this accident, lots of them. I don't know conclusively what did, any more than you do, hence my use of the word "could", but if a 737-200 shucks an engine at very low altitude, a cone bolt related failure is something that pops into my mind as a possibility, although it might not to others unfamilar with this 737-related quirk.




User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

You're saying that the cone bolt failure caused the engine to come off. This implies then that the stab and gear coming off are related to the engine situation. You don't have to state it, the pix show engine and starboard gear together. Or are you saying that a second, simultaneous, failure caused the gear to come off?

I'm somewhat familiar with cone bolt failures. I just don't understand how you can explain a cone bolt failure incident by saying that the engine came off in midair, the gear & stab came off for whatever reason, and the pilots gets it back down on the ground, it skids to a stop and it comes out intact.

The gear is sitting in close proximity to the engine and it appears to have a chunk of the stab in it's "teeth". Leads me to conclude engine, gear, and stab came off nearly simultaneously.

This guy never got airborne....


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6288 times:

>>>You're saying that the cone bolt failure caused the engine to come off.

I'm saying that it's -possible- that it could have. From the above NTSB links:

From Delta/1992: "ENGINE SEPARATION WAS THE RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE AFT CONE BOLT AND THE ENGINE SECONDARY SUPPORT ASSEMBLY."

From Piedmont/1989: "AN EXAM OF ITS WING & SEPARATED ENGINE REVEALED THE AFT CONE (ENG MOUNTING) BOLT HAD FAILED FROM FATIGUE, THEN THE TWO FORWARD CONE BOLTS FAILED FROM DUCTILE OVERSTRESS."

From USAir/1989: "AN EXAM REVEALED THE AFT MOUNT CONE BOLT FOR THE #2 ENG HAD FAILED FM FATIGUE THRU THE THREAD RELIEF UNDERCUT RADIUS. "

From Southwest/1986: "THIS INCIDENT OCCURRED WHEN THE NO. 2 ENGINE EXPERIENCED AN AFT ENGINE MOUNT CONE BOLT FAILURE AND THE SUBSEQUENT FAILURE OF THE SECONDARY SUPPORT LINK (STAINLESS STEEL CABLE). "

Now, is there any remaining doubt that an aft cone bolt failure could easily cause an engine separation? Did that absolutely happen in the Air Guinee case? I have no idea--all I ever said was that it could be a possibility, and in the context that it may have been the first thing to depart the aircraft and initiate the subsequent events.


>>>This guy never got airborne....

I don't know--I wasn't there. I'm only going by the posted statement "Almost immediately after the plane took off and was in mid air, we noticed that the left wing was on fire." I'm taking the statement at face value.


>>>I'm somewhat familiar with cone bolt failures. I just don't understand how you can explain a cone bolt failure incident by saying that the engine came off in midair, the gear & stab came off for whatever reason, and the pilots gets it back down on the ground, it skids to a stop and it comes out intact.

Let's try it this way...

Let's assume the aft cone bolt failed and the engine separated as a result, and that was the first thing that happened in the accident sequence. Here's where the all the other variables come in. What happened next? Were they just feet off the ground? 300 feet? 500 feet? How fast were? Did the crew try to put it back on the ground? How heavy/light were they? Did the main gear hit and fail first, or did the nose gear, or did they bank and a wingtip first contact the ground?

I don't have the foggiest idea as to what the answers are, nor what the precise sequence of events actually was. Whatever particular order you wish to put them in doesn't necessarily eliminate the possibility an engine separation was the -first- thing that happened. Given that some 737-200 engine separations have been associated with takeoffs within a close distance off the ground, I think it remains a POSSIBILITY here.

Now, if I have to explain this again, someone might not conclude that I'm the one on drugs...  Big grin


User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

Come on...

Now you're saying that left wing was on fire.. and that the right engine came off in midair....

Maybe we should be taking the eyewitness accounts with a grain of salt vs at face value.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5783 times:

How come door 1R isn't open?

AAndrew


User currently offlineLuchtzak From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

They evacuated the plane, and after that they removed the slides and closed the aircraft.

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