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CSA To Order 12 New Planes  
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1916 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7289 times:

CSA Czech Airlines today announced that it is going to order about 12 new planes for their mediumhaul network. It wants bids from Airbus and Boeing on their desk before Wednesday 15 September 15.00 hrs local time.

CSA looks in a little hurry, because it wants to fly the new planes next year. CEO Tvrdik had it's last talks with Boeing and Airbus last week, but hopes to get better offers in two days.

CSA wants to use the planes on scheduled and charter flights and will be leased via an operational lease.

Well, what will they choose? Will they stay with the B737's or will they go with A32X? I'm also very curious about plans on replacing their A310's, anyone has any info in this?

Cheers!


Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

CSA Czech Airlines today announced that it is going to order about 12 new planes for their mediumhaul network. It wants bids from Airbus and Boeing on their desk before Wednesday 15 September 15.00 hrs local time.

The request for proposal was sent back in April so the only new thing is that the deadline is coming up.

I'm also very curious about plans on replacing their A310's, anyone has any info in this?

I think they plan to get A330 at one point. But I don't think they're getting rid of the A310s in near future, since there will be 4th A310 added to CSA's fleet in November. They plan to use it mainly for charter flights to Fortaleza, Brazil, Varadero in Cuba and one destination in Venezuela.


User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3450 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7007 times:


I guess CSA is to go Airbus. The French maybe doing great efforts on that !!!


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11611 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6984 times:

I'd say that Airbus will give them an offer they cannot possibly turn down for a selection of A319s and A320s. I wonder if Airbus might try and interest them in the 343 for the longer charter flights?

Dan  Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24792 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6947 times:

Case is not closed yet.

Boeing is pushing the 737NG and 7E7. CSA is already a large B737 operator, plus the country is a new NATO member and is anxious to put on a positive face to the US.





From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11611 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6914 times:

Well, unfortunately it may well come down to politics if both bids are competitive, though as Czech Republic is surrounded by Europe, the Airbus bid may well be favored. Still, good luck to Boeing.


...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

plus the country is a new NATO member...

So? It's been for five years and NATO for many reasons seems to be near clinical death.

...and is anxious to put on a positive face to the US.
Why should they? It's just not worth it. Not under this administration.
If politics of that sort is going to play any role, then it will not be for the benefit of Boeing - it might be a payback time for their complete failure in Aero Vodochody. CSA went into joint-venture with Boeing (in order to have Czech subject involved) and Boeing's "performance" in Aero made them look pretty stupid

However, I'd see as rational going for the 737NGs since swap from Boeing to Airbus completely would be more costly than from 737 Classics to NGs. On the other hand Airbuses are more modern and not just refurbished 1960s design.


User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

The Czech Republic isn't surrounded by Europe. IT's IN Europe. They joined the EU earlier this year.

Secondly, for the 7E7 suggestion....how does that fit in with CSA wanting their aircraft next year? This looks like an A330 deal for longrange but a toss-up between the 737 and A320 families for shorthaul.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Whitehatter,
they want to replace the 737-400s since these a/c serve destinations that make them most profit. The A310 will be replaced eventually but it's not an urgent priority since CSA's long-haul network is only symbolic (JFK, EWR,YUL/YYZ and COL via DXB). Maybe that's why considerations of the 7E7. I don't think CSA's long-haul network will expand dramatically in the future - although the success of KE's PRG-ICN route show that market potential for flights to SE Asia is there. Oddly enough Colombo has been a tremendous success so the plan to add some flights to Maledives as well.
The reason for getting 4th A310 is that CSA tried (unsuccessfully) to buy Travel Service (I think CSA couldn't stand watching their ugly livery anymore, just like me Confused)

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and CSA wants to get back their share of the charter market, from which they volutarily pulled-out couple years ago.
Travel Service made a big success flying seasonally Fortaleza (via Canary Islands) and Bangkok (via Muscat) with 738 (talk about narrow-body madness). and they were supposed to get a 767 for that this year, but it did not happen.
So I think CSA wants to compete with them by offering more comfortable wide-body a/c.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6525 times:

Um, the 737NG is a much newer aircraft. The wing is newer, and more efficient. It has longer range and has lower operating costs. The only thing that the A32S has is FBW, and not everyone wants or needs that


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1916 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

I don't know if CSA is state-owned. When it is, I do see a choice for Airbus obvious. When it doesn't, CSA will just pick the offer which is most competing. Don't forget that they fly a lot of B737's, so they might not want to change their fleet into an A32X-fleet. Their pilots know the Boeings, aswell as the cabin crews and a great part of the maintenance teams.

L410Turbolet,

any info where the 4th A310 is coming from?

Cheers!



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

Laxintl: .......and is anxious to put on a positive face to the US.

CZ joined the EU by May 1st this year and is going to receive a lot of money from the EU over the next decade - so they might also have to put a positive face to Europe.... Don´t think that Nato or the US pays them millions of Euros each year to get their economy and infrastructure updated and modernized.


It would make sense to continue with Boeing 737s NG due to the existing infrastructure of the airline including maintenance, flightcrew training and so on - on the other hand there have been complete shifts of the fleet with airlines. Still I think they´ll stay with Boeing for the European routes.
Reg the A310´s - good question - on certain routes these aircraft are always at their limit in respect of payload/range. To my mind the 767-300 could be a good choice

@L410turbolet - fully agree with TVS .... by the way - what´s about this new airline "Smart Wings" - there was announcment a few days ago they will fly 1 flight PRG-VIE on Fridays and VIE-PRG return on Sundays, single flight starting at CZK 990/EUR 31 - will they use for such a weird routing a 737? Where is the aircraft going to on Fridays? Where is it coming in on Sundays? Or was this just a typing error in the media?
Also what´s about rumours that Smartwings start to fly to ROM and DUB by Oct? By yearend LON and DXB? Is Smartwings part of TVS? Give me some hints neighbour from the north  Smile

Thanks
=TW741=



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

@L410turbolet - fully agree with TVS ....

About what? The livery?  Nuts  Big thumbs up Unlike the SmartWings livery, which I find quite nice,

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Travel Service probably contracted the design of their livery to some kindergarten...

Regarding PRG-VIE. I've read it on airways.cz forum and someone suggested that since they will operate the route with 738 Travel Service might have got some long term charters from VIE so they made the positioning flight a SmartWings service. The timing is strange and I can't think of better explanation.. the a/c is not gonna sit in VIE two, that's for sure.

Also what´s about rumours that Smartwings start to fly to ROM and DUB by Oct? Is Smartwings part of TVS?

Smart Wings is 100% owned by Travel Service. So far they use two ex-LH 737-500s (OK-SWY [D-ABIA] and OK-SWZ [D-ABIB]). Rome and Dublin is a go on Oct.1 and I believe they sell tickets already, London, Dubai "before the end of the year" to quote their webpage. London seems too crowded already: CSA, BA, EasyJet, BMI baby, EU jet, Discovery Link... We'll see.

http://www.smartwings.net/

any info where the 4th A310 is coming from?

I don't know. The recent addition, OK-YAC,

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was ex-Aircalin - Air Caledonie (F-OHPX)



[Edited 2004-09-13 17:31:17]

User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Um, the 737NG is a much newer aircraft. The wing is newer, and more efficient. It has longer range and has lower operating costs. The only thing that the A32S has is FBW, and not everyone wants or needs that

So the only reason why airlines buy narrowbody Airbuses is the FBW?  Wow! What comes to operating costs, other airline might found Airbuses more economical and some other Boeings. It is all about the needs of individual airline and how they are going to use those aircrafts. I wouldn't be so sure about the more economical wing on B737NG either...

Best Regards,
FinnWings


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4506 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

whatever happened to the good old fashioned buying something because you need it not because you're being pressured into it  Big grin


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

any info where the 4th A310 is coming from?

According to planes.cz the 4th A310 will be registered as OK-YAD and it's this particular aircraft:


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Regarding the tender for 12 medium-range a/c. There was an interesting story on Czech TV just couple minutes ago. Supposedly Mr. Pickering from Boeing sent a letter to the CSA CEO and Czech minister of finance (CSA is 92% state owned) full of moreless unsubstantiated claims such as that the conditions for the bid are "not transparent" and parameters for the aircraft set in a such manner, which "prevents selection of Boeing". Seems like Boeing really wants to play the politics card, because requests for proposal were sent in April and only now they realize the condition don't suit them?


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3494 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

A possible replacement for the A310? Maybe 767s?


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5665 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Maybe 767s?

The problem with 767s is that the line will be shut down pretty soon. In future let's say 7, 10 years down the road, should CSA choose to expand its widebody fleet, they will have the same problem, which they have with Classic 737s. Not enough decent 2nd hand a/c since most were grabbed by LCCs.


User currently offlineAirportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Another carrier to dump their A310's.....

 Crying  Crying  Crying  Crying

Even if they dont do that, It's something that I live with everyday...knowing my baby is on the way out....


LOL im being dramatic  Big grin



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

I surely hope CSA goes for Finkenwerder and Toulouse Big grin

Thats where they buildt the best beautys that flies IMO *simple as that*

Micke  Big thumbs up



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

I am thinking they could order 7E7s and Boeing Capital could lease them some 763s that are in the desert for the interim. The A330 is probably too heavy to replace the A310 ops. 752s might actually make a good choice, but we know what they did to the that line. I really think that 737NGs are a good choice, no matter what they do with the A310s. Costs, training, etc.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

"they could lease some 763 and 752"!

Please, give CSA some credit! Why should they lease 2nd hand 767´s and 752

when they got the stunning A313??

Micke/SE  Insane



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Why does it really matter what they select?
It seems price and financing is the ultimate decision maker in whose product they select and of course the guarantee that they can have the first delivery sometime next year.
No matter what they choose I doubt it will any effect on people flying OK.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineAirliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

I'm convinced they will opt for the B737NG family, since they have been a long time operator of the B737-400. Now, about long range aircrafts for them, that'll be another story to tell.

My 0.02¢  Big grin


User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

DeltaMIA,
Your right, however leaving out one huge detail. Delivery date, delivery date, delivery date. This was a primary reason for Independence Air choosing the A319/320 over the 737. Boeing couldn't deliver a 737 until mid-next year whereas AirBus could do so nearly immediately and with very considerate financing terms similiar to what JetBlue recieved.
On a side note, I bought a roundtrip ticket from JFK To Prague nonstop, had my flight cancelled because the plane had been broke for close to a week at the gate in JFK (this was in March) and had to fly to Brussels on DL, then switch to a CSA 737. First, I wasn't impressed with the 737 they fly (even though I am a fan of the plane) and then on the return trip I swear Evil Kenivel was the captain on the A310 and the plane was absolutely not comfortable. That plane sucks. Ugh. I need a nap.


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