AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11482 times:
NEW YORK (AFX) - KLM Royal Dutch Airlines NV and its US partner in the
Skyteam alliance, Northwest Airlines Corp, are studying placing a joint order
for the new Boeing Co 7E7 jetliner, KLM chairman Leo van Wijk said.
He said the talks are still at an early stage and no deposit has so far been
paid.
The 7E7 is scheduled to make its maiden flight in 2007 and come into service
in 2008.
Af-A319 From France, joined Oct 1999, 603 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11223 times:
What a joke!
1- First, both airlines are present or future operators of the A332
2-How come Air France is not included in this announcement. KL and AF have merged, and it's my understanding that big investments - such as a/c purchases - are in the scope of the merged entity. Does this announcement means that they are already some tensions within AF KL?
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11141 times:
Af-319-
Its not a joke, and the A332 is not a 7e7 competitor. I have more details of whats going on, however, they cannot be shared.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11025 times:
I am also curious about the application of these airframes within these companies, and what will happen with the 332s both have ordered.
Clearly, NW could benefit from a very-long-haul small widebody, and the 7E7 is that.
Dayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11015 times:
This would make as much sense for NW as getting rid of the DC-9
Seriously, does anyone think that NW would operate a 7e7 fleet AND a 332? Yes, they are direct competitors, the 7e is aimed directly at the 330-200. Perhaps NW is unhappy with A330 product and wants to trade them in on 7e7?
That would be a big blow to the prestige of Airbus, and a rather large feather for Boeings cap. Badly needed one, I might add. I would love to see it!
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3639 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10975 times:
Hz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10912 times:
This would make as much sense for NW as getting rid of the DC-9
Seriously, does anyone think that NW would operate a 7e7 fleet AND a 332? Yes, they are direct competitors, the 7e is aimed directly at the 330-200.
Perhaps NW is unhappy with A330 product and wants to trade them in on 7e7?
That would be a big blow to the prestige of Airbus, and a rather large feather for Boeings cap. Badly needed one, I might add. I would love to see it!
Not likely--Singapore Airlines turned in their A340s without any black eye on the face of Airbus; sales have been just dandy since then. I doubt the performance of the A330 has already been a letdown for NWAC, it seems unlikely at this stage.
Arniepie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10884 times:
As far as I know Northwest could only talk with Air France since they are the actual "owners" of KLM.
So if it would be true it would mean that KLM+AF+NW would buy 7E7, I know that AF is quite a happy Boeing customer but this seems to be a bit far fetched.
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7336 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10857 times:
The 7E7 will be part of a new family of airliners. The aircraft is being developed as one plane for every corner of the market.
AGrayson514 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10804 times:
Would the 7E7 fit for a DC-10 / MD-11 replacement? This would sort of explain why AF was not mentioned, as they have none of these planes to replace.
If not a replacement, then it seems NW and KL are looking into significant international expansion.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10794 times:
As far as I know Northwest could only talk with Air France since they are the actual "owners" of KLM.
That's untrue. KLM is a wholly owned entity, that can negotiate for itself.
N808NW From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 374 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10767 times:
Remember that 7E7 is now called the 787.
All flights have great IFE...get yourself a window seat, thats something no PTV can beat! flew 808 Pacific an Atlanic
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10752 times:
HlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10577 times:
A. Boeing might offer Northwest and KLM to buy their A330s in exchange for 7E7s like Boeing did with Singapore with the A340s for 777s.
B. It didn't say which model of the 7E7 that Northwest and KLM were looking at. Perhaps its the smallest 7E7 model that Northwest wants for a 757 replacement.
C. I am waiting for some smartass on here to say Northwest is getting the 7E7 to replace the DC-9s
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10525 times:
As far as I know AF has 96.33% of the KLM-shares and is thus the owner.
Maybe I misunderstood.
AOL is a 100% owned subsidiary of Time Warner, Inc. But I assure you, we don't call Time Warner when we need to buy something.
Its a separate entity that's owned by another.
N
25 Jafa: Years ago, NWA was studiying the 777, 767, and A330. For thier needs, NWA chose the A330. Such decisions are based on more than liveries and PTV's. St
26 Bobnwa: I think everyone is jumping the gun. Northwest has "studied" every new aircraft that has ever been offered . Does anyone think that they would not stu
27 Nwdc10: I'd be supprised if NW went for the 7E7. Airbus all the way unless NW wants the 7E7 in like a 757 "addition". If that is so, then i understand why NW
28 Solnabo: In the competition with 332, Boeing lost big time with the 764 (DL/CO), we all know that so lets see what 7e7 (not 787 yet, right?) can do.......... A
29 Gigneil: NWA and KLM won't want the 330L. They will want something with more capability, not less. N
30 Arniepie: Gigneil, I still think the purchase of a new fleet is to big of a thing to do without the O.K. of AF. This doesn't mean it is impossible at all but ve
31 NW7E7: Exactly...Boeing will buy NW A330's and trade them for 7E7's. The 7E7 is better suited for trans-pacific than an A330. The A330 wasn't really designed
32 Nwdc10: I would keep the 757's. they are very good a/c. If anything, i still think the 7E7 would be an addition to the 757's. They can use the 7E7's for both
33 TransSwede: "Or it could be true that NW is going to replace their 757-200's with the smaller variant of the 7E7" Sigh... The 7E7 is not a 757-200 replacement - t
34 SafetyDude: Northwest is studying the 7e7???? This rumor began to strongly circulate in July. The rumors said that NWA was looking at the 7E7 for more and expande
35 Dc10guy: I think the article meant to say a joint order for 717's ...
36 N1120a: Actually, even though it is called Time Warner Inc., AOL share holders own the company and AOL people are at the top. KL is an autonomous entity in AF
37 NWA Man: I have more details of whats going on, however, they cannot be shared. So why bring it up? We already know you read your dad's copies of Passages and
38 Af-A319: Come on guys, how would a shareholder of the AF/KL group react if the new entity did not take advantages of their increased bargaining power when it's
39 DfwRevolution: Sigh... The 7E7 is not a 757-200 replacement - the capacity difference is not even close. We don't know that yet. The 7E7-3 could in some bizzar way e
40 Af-A319: By the way, has anyone a link to that story that actually does not require registration?? I can't find it elsewhere on google news... it's weird!
41 Frugalqxnwa: If NW were to order 7E7, they could use 7E7 for Asia and transpacific routes, thus enabling NW to concentrate 330 flying on the Atlantic routes. 7E7 w
42 Nwdc10: The airline industry is great! Very exciting except a few occations. If Airbus makes an "improved' A330-200, then i would look very close at the econo
43 Behramjee: The B 7E7-800 and -900 can easily fly from all of NWAs main hubs of DTW-MSP and SEA nonstop to Europe-UK-Japan and China where as the A 330s of theirs
44 Gigneil: Exactly...Boeing will buy NW A330's and trade them for 7E7's. No they won't. Why does everybody thing that because they did it once, they'll do it eve
45 Kl808: Dude, I find this a bunch of belony. ITS ONLY A STUDY GUYS. and for sure NO WAY will KLM buy the 7E7 right now with a bunch of A332 on order. KL and N
46 Burnsie28: Dude, I find this a bunch of belony. ITS ONLY A STUDY GUYS. and for sure NO WAY will KLM buy the 7E7 right now with a bunch of A332 on order. KL and N
47 Floris: Here's a Dutch reply. The full article is here (in Dutch): http://www.nu.nl/news.jsp?n=408317&c=32 According to this article, KLM... - wants to start
48 NW7E7: We'll see what happens when they order the 7E7.
49 Nwdc10: Even if the 7E7 is out, the A330-200 is still a very good a/c for NW rout structure. Robert NWDC10
50 SNATH: Arniepie, Interesting what you said about SNBA. It'd be great to see the 7E7 in SNBA colors, but unfortunately I'm not really holding my breath. Howev
51 Tarantine: why would northwest buy a boeing product?
52 DfwRevolution: Even if the 7E7 is out, the A330-200 is still a very good a/c for NW rout structure. Robert NWDC10M No one is disputing that, but the 7E7 can present
53 Chgoflyer: NWA has lost many business travelers over the decision to buy 330's, I'm one of them... it would be a smart thing to show some interest in Boeing.
54 Nwcoflyer: Rember that NW CEO Richard Anderson and CFO Bernie Han have both pointed out that NW will need more widebody aircraft for operations. They have stated
55 BoeingBus: Here is another source... http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4542 "Steenland said the carrier's need for a 7E7-type aircraft is not at odds
56 DfwRevolution: NWA has lost many business travelers over the decision to buy 330's, I'm one of them... it would be a smart thing to show some interest in Boeing. Why
57 Chgoflyer: Why is that? Nostalgia aside, They beat the hell out of the DC-10s sorry I dont understand your response.
58 DfwRevolution: sorry I dont understand your response. I do not undestand why NW has lost customers by bringing A330 online. They are a superior aircraft to the DC-10
59 MSPXJGuy: NW is a conservative airline as far as making sure they get the best deals out of things. However, they won't go completely to just one company for an
60 Gigneil: I do not undestand why NW has lost customers by bringing A330 online. They haven't. The majority of businesspeople prefer convenience and comfort with
61 Flybynight: I would think the 7e7 is to be at least a partial replacement for 757's, especially 753. After all, the 757 and 767 were designed together, and the 7e
62 Carpethead: It's a study that's going nowhere. Or it's a study that makes KLM & NW look like fools for selecting the A330. Boeing will not get into the fiasco of
63 Chgoflyer: Does anyone on this post/thread do business in Mich? For those who don't its basically bankrupt as a result of imports. I fly between ORD and DTW ever
64 Gigneil: ORD and DTW every other week and I assure you there is always conversation/usually in first class between the passengers of why did NW have to buy mor
65 RJ111: The B 7E7-800 and -900 can easily fly from all of NWAs main hubs of DTW-MSP and SEA nonstop to Europe-UK-Japan and China where as the A 330s of theirs
66 NWA Man: Does anyone on this post/thread do business in Mich? For those who don't its basically bankrupt as a result of imports. Imports with better quality an
67 Acidradio: Detroit's own Chryslers are manufactured in Mexico That same A319 that the DTW crowd is complaining about is made at none other than... DaimlerChrysle
68 Tom_eddf: That same A319 that the DTW crowd is complaining about is made at none other than... DaimlerChrysler Aerospace in Hamburg!!! Not entirely true... it's
69 Tripple7: Just read some articles about this news. It looks interesting especially since one of the articles I read clearly stated that KLM's A332 will be ident
70 Dutchjet: Why is it surprising that KL and NW are studying the 7e7? Both are large airlines with huge route networks and I am sure that each airline studies eve
71 BestWestern: What amazes me about this news is the fact that AF calls all the shots at KLM these days. Having spent a large part of the late 90's on a fleet standa
72 KEESJE: Well the 7e7 could use a serious (non-political, not marginal) order. A NWA/KLM order would be convincing airlines that take a wait and see position n
73 Alexinwa: Lots of airlines use the 330/777 families together. NW could very well use the 7E7 and the 330. Why not? The 7E7 just might be the perfect niche plane
74 LifelinerOne: Well, I do like the armchair CEO-replies here, which are very present in this thread. So, I will watch out to make very hard comments like Northwest l
75 LifelinerOne: Nu.nl reports that it isn't KLM and NWA studying the B7E7, but the whole SkyTeam alliance is studying a joint B7E7-order. Cheers!
76 Arniepie: Arniepie, Interesting what you said about SNBA. It'd be great to see the 7E7 in SNBA colors, but unfortunately I'm not really holding my breath. Howev
77 Asianguy767: I think the B7E7 interests KLM as a B767 replacement whereas the A332 is more a M11 replacement and the B777 is a partial B743 replacement. And if the
78 SNATH: I see your point about fleet commonality but lets be honest, how far thus it actually bring you? I would be very interested to know how many Airbus op
79 Gigneil: Nu.nl reports that it isn't KLM and NWA studying the B7E7, but the whole SkyTeam alliance is studying a joint B7E7-order. I read this as well. Skyteam
80 RJ111: And if the 7E7 works well I'm sure AF will look to it to replace its B767s too. Sadly, AF replaced their 767's with A332's last year View Large View M
81 Dayflyer: It makes perfect sense for an alliance to consider a multi-airline purchase to leverage purchase price, engine costs (which can be up to 25% of the co
82 N328KF: The WSJ wrote about this story, today, too. They said it was just NW/KL, and not a SkyTeam buy. It would be separate contracts, with common cockpit an
83 Na: All see the 7E7 as a A332 rival here. But in the case of NWA I could think they are interested in the shortrange-variant of the 7E7 for high-load dome
84 Nwaflyboi: As mentioned by the director of inflight,NWA is working with boeing on designing and aircraft available in 2008 to replace the 747-200's.This aircraft
85 RJ111: Sao Paulo-Narita Exactly which orifice you pulled that idea from is beyond me.
86 Nwaflyboi: There is a huge population of Japanese in Brazil and Chile.We have a huge hub in Narita second to JAL.Why not SAO-NRT.i look forward to working the fl
87 RJ111: Why not SAO-NRT I could understand GRU-DTW-NRT But there will be no non-stop GRU-NRT service, I can assure you that.
88 Bobnwa: Nwaflyboi, I don't think there will be a flight SAO-NRT or GRU-NRT. The aircraft doesn't exist either now or in the planning stages that could do it n
89 Nwaflyboi: Think about how Singapore flies thier A345 EWR-singapore route.17-18hr nonstop flight over the pole.Doubt that the 7e7 would go directly across the Pa
90 Burnsie28: While i think its stupid to question someone inside of NW on routes, however, GRU and SAO non-stop to NRT are impossible as it is even outside of the
91 Blake: On the SNBA posts above: If the leases on the A330's expire next year, how will SNBA get 7e7's to replace them? Also, and much more important: the 330
92 Planemaker: "Sao Paulo-Narita" "Exactly which orifice you pulled that idea from is beyond me." There are over 1 million people of Japanese origin in Sao Paolo (Br
93 Aa777jr: Didnt read all the above posts, but what a/c would NW and KL get rid of in order to get the 7E7. Would they operate the 7E7 across the pond? AA777jr
94 DfwRevolution: Didnt read all the above posts, but what a/c would NW and KL get rid of in order to get the 7E7. Would they operate the 7E7 across the pond? Possibly
95 Jetjack74: Hector Adler said it would be a DTW-GRU n/s. The flight would be timed to connect passengers to NRT/NGO/KIX-bound flights since there could be potenti
96 Gigneil: They can plan it all they want, but there is no plane now or in planning that can op the route nonstop with a good enough load to work it. NRT-DTW-GRU
97 DIA: My only question is: If Skyteam is looking at making a "bulk order" for several airlines in the alliance. . .approximately how many 7E7s do you think
98 Thrust: I am surprised neither AA nor Co have started to take interest in the 7E7...
99 NWDC10: Lucky #100 post. Just wait till the airlines get profitable again then watch the orders come in and watch the deliveries. Who will be the first to fly
100 Jetjack74: NW is allegedly in talks with Boeing to be the US-launch customer for the 7E7. Also, NW is going to make SEA an A330 pilot base, Will be announced soo
101 SNBA319: As far as 7E7's for SNBA are concerned, I doubt this will happen. A330; Birdy operated, though SNBA is taking over Birdy. These specific a/c are the e
102 Nwaflyboi: Thank you DFWRevoultion!!!!!!jeeeeezzzuuusss.The 7E7 is NOT replacing NWA's A330s!!!!!!!!!.It is a new aircraft with new possiblities.....a new niche.
103 Bobnwa: Nwaflyboi, NRT-GRU would be 11,489 miles. At the current speed of the SQ flight between SIN-EWR, it would take about 23 hours for this flight. The 7E7
104 Jfrworld: I think NW needs to decide if they are a Boeing shop or an Airbus shop. They already operate a rather complex fleet mix - DC10, DC9, A320, A319, B752,
105 DfwRevolution: I think NW needs to decide if they are a Boeing shop or an Airbus shop. Not at all... keeping both manufactures in a fleet is probably the most stable
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