Deltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 135 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8507 times:
This may have been brought up....but I have been hearing speculation of a Delta/Continental merger for a while. I think they tried this a few years ago but were stopped by the Justice Department among other things.
Does the new SkyTeam alliance bring this a step closer?
Could new labor contracts resulting from a potential DL bankruptcy make this easier?
Ord From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1399 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8363 times:
There has been zero talk of a DL/CO merger since the last try fell apart. That was in the mid-1990s, when CO was looking for a partner. Delta was a candidate, but CO realized it could get the benefits of a merger (by partnering with NW) without all of the problems of an actual merger (like seniority integration). There was never an official merger agreement between CO and DL, so there was nothing for the Justice Department to stop.
Deltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8222 times:
what about in terms of international service....LLC is clearly the most successful thus far...CO and DL have great European service (thanks to PanAM) which is fed by their domestic networks...wouldn't a streamlining/reduction of a domestic framework with a CO/DL merger and consolidation of international traffic to compete with the European legacies benefit both carriers?
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3541 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8076 times:
It would work well with routes and fleet. Hubs:
16 737-900 (I have no clue how many CO has)
Pretty sweet fleet. 874 aircraft. They would form, by far, the largest carrier in the world, and would carry over 150,000,000 passengers and have around 3,500 flights per day. For now though, I kinda like having DL and CO as separate carriers. But one day, a CO and DL matchup may make sense, both carriers are so similar.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15352 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8016 times:
Erm - NO.
Let's look at some hubs, here:
CO - IAH
DL - ATL
These are essentially the only two that do NOT have a problem with one another. One is huge, the other is FREAKIN' ENORMOUS.
CO - CLE
DL - CVG
Does it really make sense to have two mid-sized hubs around 200 miles apart? Hint - US did it with PIT and PHL. How well did THAT work?
CO - EWR
DL - JFK
Hmm. Two hubs/focus cities...TWENTY MILES APART. Lovely. Both of which have or are undergoing major expansions/renovation. Maybe it's time to re-think the former PA WorldPort? Then again, Terminal C at EWR can't handle both carriers' operations.
So what do we do - operate two competing facilities? Or build a billion dollar high-speed rail link between the two just for connecting passengers?
So, in a CO/DL merger, we've killed at least two hubs. CLE/CVG and EWR/JFK. We've also got GDS issues, FF program issues, powerplant issues for many fleet types (PW at DL and RR for CO).
Oh, and that little part about $20 BILLION IN DEBT that DL is carrying, of course.
Did I miss anything?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3503 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7859 times:
I believe NW still has the right to block any acquisition of CO, even tho' CO bought back the stake it sold to NW in the 90's. Unless I'm mistaken, CO and NW are in a 20 year codeshare agreement.
There are no mergers among the legacy carriers that make sense in todays market. Too much overlap, and nobody has the financial strength to pull it off. I believe we are more likely to see mergers among the LCC's before we'll see any mergers of the legacy carriers.
Deltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7850 times:
yeah, well it may be a rough idea...but it got some people thinking.
The PA Worldport may not have been a bad idea....but why would you consolidate hubs? Who would fly LHR - NRT via JFK? Latin America is where the money is.........but you may have to close CLE...
Keep the RR powerplants for the international 757s and get rid of the rest. The 767400ERs and the 767-300ERs are a duh....that's a great mix. The FA's won't have to learn new doors and Pilots know the same aircraft. The only personel issue is seniority, but the aircraft-type synergy makes that a non-issue. The merger is a proportional one.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17594 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7538 times:
CO might be better served to wait for a possible asset sale or liquadation of US's operations at DCA, LGA or even Charlotte.
They could get a better deal for those assets under the right circumstances then they would from merging with Delta and assuming their $20 Billion Dollar debt.
Instead of Atlanta they can get Charlotte, now while Charlotte is by no means Atlanta nor a large O&D marke it might work well structured in a similar way to CO's CLE operation, lots of ERJs to everywhere all over the Southeast.
CO already has the right to occupy the US Airways terminal at LGA since they're the "technical" owners, purchasing the LGA slots and Shuttle would offer them the same advantage as a DL merger except assuming the debt.
CO could purchase parts of US and rehire their own furloughed pilots and pull some of their own aircraft from back out of the desert or make short term lease deals for 737NGs untill they could procure enough through their own order log with Boeing, the ERJs are no problem as CO has a huge order with Embraer which would have no problem expediting.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7103 times:
A DL/CO merger at this point in time? Not gonna happen......DL is trying to figure out how to avoid bankruptcy, so it is niether in the position to acquire CO and CO is certainly not interested in buying DL's problems or taking on it debt.
Airlines are working very hard to try to figure out how to become and stay profitable in this difficult enviornment, all of the legacy carriers in the US still have their problems, and just because CO, NW and AA at the moment seem to be doing better than DL, US, and UA does not mean that ALL of the airlines are still trying to figure out a way to simply survive (never mind merging).....none of the carriers have yet to show a significant and consistent quarterly profit. All of the airlines have labor issues to contend with, pension obligations to consider, and in many cases have deferred fleet renewal programs.....so talk of mergers and buy outs is pure fiction at this time. Even the LCCs, such as media darling JetBlue, is sending out signals that all is not perfect: the Florida hurricanes have greatly impacted JetBlue's operations and financial results and all of those $49 tickets may not have been a good thing.
Dayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6615 times:
Any merger attempt at this point by any airline in the US is crazy EXCEPT for 1 I can think of: Southwest buys US Airways and transitions them the an LCC to give SW a greater East Coast presence. It makes sense because SW gets 2 new hubs, lots of routes and they can dismatle the USAIR cost structure at will.
The only problem is the number of new AC types SW would have to deal with by selling them off or returning them to lessors.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12341 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6600 times:
In all honesty a merger right now for any major carrier does not make a whole lot of sense. Shortly I believe one major is going to leave the sky's and at that time the others will pick off the best pieces and leave the rest to rot. This is unfortunate for those working for the one(s) that go under, though in the long run it will help the industry grow stronger.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4139 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6494 times:
What will it be after the "merger"? Delta or Continental
Since CO would most likely be the one buying, I'm going to say Continental. Then again, they could keep the Delta brand (Like AF is keeping the KLM brand but still owns them). It may help keep some loyal customers to DL while down playing the image of a super-sized airline.
SunbrellaPat From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6019 times:
"Seniority Integration" just kills airlines. Bad blood in the cockpit for decades - literally. Look all the way back to PanAm and National, even. The legacy carriers have enough problems - merging with each other is a headache they don't need.
Now, outright selling of assets (gates, routes, aircraft) to another, stronger legacy carrier, THAT is believable...
: CO will take one look at DL's financial situation and say 'no way.' CO will not want to buy up an airline that is up to its ears in debt.
: "Any merger attempt at this point by any airline in the US is crazy EXCEPT for 1 I can think of: Southwest buys US Airways and transitions them the an
27 EA CO AS
: What will it be after the "merger"? Delta or Continental That's easy. "Deltanental."