Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL CO Merger  
User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 134 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8036 times:

This may have been brought up....but I have been hearing speculation of a Delta/Continental merger for a while. I think they tried this a few years ago but were stopped by the Justice Department among other things.

Does the new SkyTeam alliance bring this a step closer?

Could new labor contracts resulting from a potential DL bankruptcy make this easier?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7892 times:

There has been zero talk of a DL/CO merger since the last try fell apart. That was in the mid-1990s, when CO was looking for a partner. Delta was a candidate, but CO realized it could get the benefits of a merger (by partnering with NW) without all of the problems of an actual merger (like seniority integration). There was never an official merger agreement between CO and DL, so there was nothing for the Justice Department to stop.

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

I think the realities of the current business environment, make a DL/CO, or any other merger, a definite possibility in the very near future.




Delete this User
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

What would be the benefits of two legacies merging..???
I don't see any... The problem is not needing more... It is how to change what you are so you can compete with the new environment...



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7763 times:

Delta should merge with UsAir. That would be a match made in heaven.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7751 times:

what about in terms of international service....LLC is clearly the most successful thus far...CO and DL have great European service (thanks to PanAM) which is fed by their domestic networks...wouldn't a streamlining/reduction of a domestic framework with a CO/DL merger and consolidation of international traffic to compete with the European legacies benefit both carriers?

minus any anti-competative factors.....


User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

We wouldn't want to contaminate DL's fleet with USAir's Airbus fleet...now would we....  Wink/being sarcastic

A DL/CO merger would offer fleet synergy.....unlike the A310s DL got out of the Pam Am merger


User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7657 times:

It would make sense but would CO want to saddle it self with Delta's debts and obligations? It would make for a pretty stong powerhouse to match AA, UA and NW.




Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7605 times:

It would work well with routes and fleet. Hubs:

ATL
IAH
EWR
CVG
SLC

Fleet: (Approximations)
52 737-200Adv
82 737-300
66 737-500
36 737-700
149 737-800
16 737-900 (I have no clue how many CO has)
162 757-200
15 767-200
10 767-200ER
28 767-300
59 767-300ER
37 767-400ER
26 777-200IGW
120 MD-88
16 MD-90-30

Pretty sweet fleet. 874 aircraft. They would form, by far, the largest carrier in the world, and would carry over 150,000,000 passengers and have around 3,500 flights per day. For now though, I kinda like having DL and CO as separate carriers. But one day, a CO and DL matchup may make sense, both carriers are so similar.

Jeremy


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13612 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7545 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Erm - NO.

Let's look at some hubs, here:

CO - IAH
DL - ATL

These are essentially the only two that do NOT have a problem with one another. One is huge, the other is FREAKIN' ENORMOUS.

CO - CLE
DL - CVG

Does it really make sense to have two mid-sized hubs around 200 miles apart? Hint - US did it with PIT and PHL. How well did THAT work?  Nuts

CO - EWR
DL - JFK

Hmm. Two hubs/focus cities...TWENTY MILES APART. Lovely. Both of which have or are undergoing major expansions/renovation. Maybe it's time to re-think the former PA WorldPort? Then again, Terminal C at EWR can't handle both carriers' operations.

So what do we do - operate two competing facilities? Or build a billion dollar high-speed rail link between the two just for connecting passengers?  Insane


So, in a CO/DL merger, we've killed at least two hubs. CLE/CVG and EWR/JFK. We've also got GDS issues, FF program issues, powerplant issues for many fleet types (PW at DL and RR for CO).

Oh, and that little part about $20 BILLION IN DEBT that DL is carrying, of course.

Did I miss anything?  Big grin





"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7388 times:

I believe NW still has the right to block any acquisition of CO, even tho' CO bought back the stake it sold to NW in the 90's. Unless I'm mistaken, CO and NW are in a 20 year codeshare agreement.

There are no mergers among the legacy carriers that make sense in todays market. Too much overlap, and nobody has the financial strength to pull it off. I believe we are more likely to see mergers among the LCC's before we'll see any mergers of the legacy carriers.


User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7379 times:

yeah, well it may be a rough idea...but it got some people thinking.

The PA Worldport may not have been a bad idea....but why would you consolidate hubs? Who would fly LHR - NRT via JFK? Latin America is where the money is.........but you may have to close CLE...

Keep the RR powerplants for the international 757s and get rid of the rest. The 767400ERs and the 767-300ERs are a duh....that's a great mix. The FA's won't have to learn new doors and Pilots know the same aircraft. The only personel issue is seniority, but the aircraft-type synergy makes that a non-issue. The merger is a proportional one.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13612 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7266 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Keep the RR powerplants for the international 757s and get rid of the rest

CO has 50 B-757s, all RR powered. When you suggest a merged CO/DL simply "get rid of the rest..."

...do you mean get rid of all ONE HUNDRED TWENTY ONE of DL's B-757s?  Nuts




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

I think he meant keep all of the ETOPS rated International RR powered 757s (I have no clue how many) and get rid of the rest of the RR 757s.

User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3969 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

I was always opposed to this possibilty and I am thankful each and every day that this marrige did not come to pass. In light of what is happening to DL as of late, CO is much better on it's own.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

CO might be better served to wait for a possible asset sale or liquadation of US's operations at DCA, LGA or even Charlotte.

They could get a better deal for those assets under the right circumstances then they would from merging with Delta and assuming their $20 Billion Dollar debt.

Instead of Atlanta they can get Charlotte, now while Charlotte is by no means Atlanta nor a large O&D marke it might work well structured in a similar way to CO's CLE operation, lots of ERJs to everywhere all over the Southeast.

CO already has the right to occupy the US Airways terminal at LGA since they're the "technical" owners, purchasing the LGA slots and Shuttle would offer them the same advantage as a DL merger except assuming the debt.

CO could purchase parts of US and rehire their own furloughed pilots and pull some of their own aircraft from back out of the desert or make short term lease deals for 737NGs untill they could procure enough through their own order log with Boeing, the ERJs are no problem as CO has a huge order with Embraer which would have no problem expediting.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4107 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6989 times:

I believe NW still has the right to block any acquisition of CO, even tho' CO bought back the stake it sold to NW in the 90's. Unless I'm mistaken, CO and NW are in a 20 year codeshare agreement.

I sincerely doubt DL would be the one buying out CO  Big grin


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6663 times:

looks alot more realistic with the rumors floating that DL will file Chp 11 soon...


to be continued.



User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6632 times:

A DL/CO merger at this point in time? Not gonna happen......DL is trying to figure out how to avoid bankruptcy, so it is niether in the position to acquire CO and CO is certainly not interested in buying DL's problems or taking on it debt.

Airlines are working very hard to try to figure out how to become and stay profitable in this difficult enviornment, all of the legacy carriers in the US still have their problems, and just because CO, NW and AA at the moment seem to be doing better than DL, US, and UA does not mean that ALL of the airlines are still trying to figure out a way to simply survive (never mind merging).....none of the carriers have yet to show a significant and consistent quarterly profit. All of the airlines have labor issues to contend with, pension obligations to consider, and in many cases have deferred fleet renewal programs.....so talk of mergers and buy outs is pure fiction at this time. Even the LCCs, such as media darling JetBlue, is sending out signals that all is not perfect: the Florida hurricanes have greatly impacted JetBlue's operations and financial results and all of those $49 tickets may not have been a good thing.


User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6144 times:

Any merger attempt at this point by any airline in the US is crazy EXCEPT for 1 I can think of: Southwest buys US Airways and transitions them the an LCC to give SW a greater East Coast presence. It makes sense because SW gets 2 new hubs, lots of routes and they can dismatle the USAIR cost structure at will.

The only problem is the number of new AC types SW would have to deal with by selling them off or returning them to lessors.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12113 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6129 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

In all honesty a merger right now for any major carrier does not make a whole lot of sense. Shortly I believe one major is going to leave the sky's and at that time the others will pick off the best pieces and leave the rest to rot. This is unfortunate for those working for the one(s) that go under, though in the long run it will help the industry grow stronger.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePilotcoex From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6089 times:

What will it be after the "merger"? Delta or Continental

User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4107 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6023 times:

What will it be after the "merger"? Delta or Continental

Since CO would most likely be the one buying, I'm going to say Continental. Then again, they could keep the Delta brand (Like AF is keeping the KLM brand but still owns them). It may help keep some loyal customers to DL while down playing the image of a super-sized airline.


User currently offlinePilotcoex From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

I sure hope the name Continental does not disappear. It is the finest airline we have, and I think its the most popular among Europeans, and South Americans.

User currently offlineSunbrellaPat From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

"Seniority Integration" just kills airlines. Bad blood in the cockpit for decades - literally. Look all the way back to PanAm and National, even. The legacy carriers have enough problems - merging with each other is a headache they don't need.
Now, outright selling of assets (gates, routes, aircraft) to another, stronger legacy carrier, THAT is believable...


25 Airways6max : CO will take one look at DL's financial situation and say 'no way.' CO will not want to buy up an airline that is up to its ears in debt.
26 TOLtommy : "Any merger attempt at this point by any airline in the US is crazy EXCEPT for 1 I can think of: Southwest buys US Airways and transitions them the an
27 Post contains images EA CO AS : What will it be after the "merger"? Delta or Continental That's easy. "Deltanental."
28 Luv2fly : It should be more like denial!
29 N766UA : I like Continelta. In a perfect world, DL and CO would fit together pretty well (their express carriers, on the other hand...), but we aren't in a per
30 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : FriendlySkies: I sincerely doubt DL would be the one buying out CO ...and I highly doubt the inverse would occur either. For what I believe to be an a
31 Pilotcoex : Don't do it Gordon, you know better than that. Don't listen to the voices in your head.
32 Jumpseat70 : I don't happen to think that any of you are very funny. You are making light of some very serious issues. I guess if we were talking about your compan
33 Ramerinianair : I fell stupid but I think it was before my time, What was/is PA World port? From the sounds it is probably a large international hub. Any backround in
34 Post contains images EA CO AS : I fell stupid but I think it was before my time, What was/is PA World port? From the sounds it is probably a large international hub Don't feel stupid
35 Post contains images FriendlySkies : DL may be in financial trouble, but it's still a little soon to say that, I think. Read the rest of my post
36 SESGDL : "Erm - NO." EA CO AS, Erm - No again. It would be obvious which hubs would go. CLE would be closed in favor of DL's CVG hub, in January, CVG will have
37 ATLhomeCMH : Jumpseat70: I am so tired of the speculation and Monday Morning Quarter backing that goes on here, especially when most of the participates either don
38 Jumpseat70 : DearATLHomecmh, Please don't tell me how to feel. I'm not oversensitive. I'm protective of the company that writes my paycheck. And I'll stay right he
39 EA CO AS : EA CO AS, Erm - No again. It would be obvious which hubs would go. CLE would be closed in favor of DL's CVG hub, in January, CVG will have over 620 da
40 HlywdCatft : there was this rumor i want to say about the time of the AA/TWA merger and talks of that US/UA merger about a mega merger between NW/CO/DL. At that ti
41 EA CO AS : maybe Chataqua would pick up the COEX ERJs and still fly as a DL Connection carrier out of Florida That would require a separate transaction for the p
42 Post contains images Thrust : Well, if there was one thing Carl Icahn did that benefited TWA besides leaving them, it was purchasing Ozark Air, an excellent strategy in my opinion.
43 ATLhomeCMH : Jumpseat70: Once again, your continued hypersensitivity amuses me. This isn't a meeting of chief financial and managerial elements of Delta and Contin
44 Jumpseat70 : DearATLhomeCMH, A. I am not hypersensitive...just sensitive. It seems the only people who hypothesize are the ones with nothing to lose, little knowle
45 ATLhomeCMH : Jumpseat70: I use my extensive airline experience to try and educate people like you who seem to know it all. lol Actually, its funny how I din't clai
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Synergy Of A DL/CO Merger posted Wed Apr 20 2005 04:32:56 by Jmc1975
DL CO Merger posted Tue Sep 14 2004 00:00:18 by Deltadude
About The Possible DL-CO Merger. posted Fri Oct 5 2001 02:36:05 by RJ_Delta
DL/CO Merger Rumours Flying Throughout ATL And IAH posted Sat Sep 29 2001 19:03:28 by DeltaSFO
DL/CO Merger? posted Fri May 26 2000 02:29:11 by FlyBoeing
DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger posted Tue Nov 29 2005 22:08:36 by 1337Delta764
How About A DL/CO/AS Merger? posted Wed Oct 17 2001 01:44:40 by Alexinwa
Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation posted Mon Nov 20 2006 06:43:28 by Diamond
Official DL/US Merger Thread: Actual News Reports posted Mon Nov 20 2006 06:43:24 by Diamond
Official DL/US Merger Thread: Alliances posted Mon Nov 20 2006 06:43:07 by Diamond