Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Qantas: Star Alliance  
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

Story in FT regarding QF's future and their plans for expansion in Asia. Seems all is not rosy between QF & BA, despite what both of them say.

Apparently BA was surprised when QF snapped up 4 slots at LHR and QF was surprised when BA sold its stake in QF. Additionally, QF's plans for the so called "Kangaroo Route" are through HKG and BOM where it will compete directly with BA on those sectors. Furthermore, it seems QF want to forge a partnership with SQ in the operation of the A380, plus expanding their presence at Changi, which is their largest operation outside Australia. Coupled with the low-cost carriers they are setting up to be based in Asia in partnership with the largest shareholder in SIA, there could be a very good reason for them to quit OneWorld and join Star.

Food for thought. folks!

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Also with QF and NZ determinded to form an alliance it might make sense for QF to join the Star Alliance.

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2939 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Interesting study. Bring it on.

User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

What's to say that this isn't a sign that SQ is going to quit Star and join oneworld?

The Joint Service Agreement (JSA) between QF and BA on the Kangaroo route is very strong. Basically it removes the competition between the two carriers as they pool the revenue on the route. A BA rep told my travel company once that it actually doesn't matter which flight a pax goes on as the revenue is split anyway. Don't forget that BA/QF have a joint relationship that goes back for decades to the dawn of intercontinental travel.

Joint maintainence agreements between competing airlines are nothing new, many were formed at the start of the 747 era. eg KSSU (KLM, Swiss, SAS and UTA) for the DC10. Indeed 777er, how much maintainence does NZ perform for QF?

QF can benefit from Changi because of the open skies agreement and the pro-competition policies of the Singaporeean governement.

Its also worth remembering that the US routes are vital to QF. Star currently offers three airlines that are in various forms of bankruptcy protetction in North America, but oneworld offers the more secure AA. This on carriage is crutial to QF.

The key factor will be consumer watch dogs and whether a change of alliance would be demeed anti-competitive.

My 2cents worth is that I don't think the QF/BA alliance is going to come undone quickly, but it will change.


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

rumbles that have been floating is that QF may join star, just a rumour that's been going around! ears to the ground in the coming months!


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5139 times:

Read the full story at http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c1860d58-05ae-11d9-bff2-00000e2511c8.html. For some reason the comments made by Dixon do have a tone that suggests there might be more going on, as in a rift between the two airlines.... especially after reading "There are some tensions coming into the relationship with BA over Qantas's growth," said Mr Dixon. To publicly state this including the surprise over BA's sale does show that they could be parting ways, or are trying to show who's the boss around there...

User currently offlineMulder From New Zealand, joined Sep 2004, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

That is not likely to happen anytime soon. Though Qantas has a number of codeshare agreements with Star Alliance members or future members, like Asiana Airlines, South African Airways, also FFP partners SAS, US Airways and SAA, it has much more connection with oneworld partners. To quit oneworld would be very inconvenient for QF at the moment. But could happen say in five years, by the time maybe Air China would have joined.

User currently offlineMulder From New Zealand, joined Sep 2004, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5079 times:

SQ leaving Star? Why bother to paint 3 aircrafts in Star livery recently?

User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Just raising a different point of view. This is a frequently discussed topic, but the assumption out there always seems to be the QF will leave oneworld if it starts dealing with SQ. Who's to say the oneworld can't offer benefits to SQ that Star might not.

Alliance switching will always be governed by way more than a simple parting of ways of two very close airlines. I think ETstar is closer to the mark when he mentions posturing. To my knowledge there have been departures from alliances caused by financial troubles or the likes, but no voluntary switches.

Australia and Singapore have a very open aviation market, it's only natural that two savy, profitable airlines will find ways to benefit from this freedom.



User currently offlineChinaeastern From China, joined Apr 2004, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

even if QF goes with SQ, it doesn't mean QF would join star. maybe form some sort of a new alliance. or put the other way around, SQ is more a la oneworld

User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Trolley DOlley,

To my knowledge there have been departures from alliances caused by financial troubles or the likes, but no voluntary switches.

Actually there has been the case of Mexicana leaving Star Alliance purely because it wanted to. The reason given was that MX was no longer code-sharing with UA - but then SQ stopped code-sharing with LH on FRA-JFK without leaving the alliance, so I don't know what to make of it.

But you are absolutely right in pointing out that switching alliances is not just a matter of leaving and erasing a logo from planes. There are financial hurdles, although I do not know what the penalty fees are for airlines leaving oneworld.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4788 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Indeed 777er, how much maintainence does NZ perform for QF?
NZ perform ALOT of maintaince for QF. When I was at the CHC maintaince base a few months ago there were three B733s there. Two were having the D check done and the other an A check. When I was walking pass the AKL maintaince base earlier this year I noticed two QF B744s there. NZ will be performing maintaince of the JQ (JetStar) A320 fleet. I think NZ perform all the D checks on the QF fleet off B737s, B767s and B744s

QF and NZ are wanting to combine their resources on flights in and out of New Zealand. Each airline will code-share on each others flights. NZ will control all of QF New Zealand domestic operations.


User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

On Qantas working with SQ on A380 maintenance..

AF will work together with LH on the A380. It just makes sence for both.

Unlikely these airlines will join the same alliance because of it.

Maintenance is a seperate buisness.


On alliances , Skyteam also feels it wantsstronegr presence in Australia/NZ.

Could Qantas strike a deal with Star, Skyteam & Oneworld carriers ?

There is no rule forbidding it.

Look at e.g Alaska in the US, they are everybody's friend.

I do think the A380's too are changing some of the ball game here..



User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

QF will want to join Star (for the NZ deal) or stay in Oneworld.
In the current situation, who would skyteam make an alliance with? The next biggest airline in this region is probably Air Pacific.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5148 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4564 times:

I reckon QF will stick it out with Oneworld.
QF's main International markets are Asia, Europe & the US

Europe - They have a close partner in BA
US - They have a great relationship with AA
Both these Alliances work very well for QF.
Asia - They plan to start their LCC Jetstar Asia and have 'other' opportunities they are looking at.

By joining STAR the Asian LCC plans might be seen as treading on partners toes. So therefore I see Oneworld as the best fit for QF at the moment and can't see them moving to STAR.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

Guys, QF may want STAR, but does STAR want it?

I think the answer to that question is no. And as for SQ, well, I think CX would need to exit oneworld first before They'd even consider SQ. This may be on the Cards because CX doesn't exactly have a good relationship with BA or QF. I think CX was really just interested in AA's big frequent flyer base for to feed its north american flights.

I could definately see, however, the strength of a merger between QF and SQ. That would definately product some interesting results, of course, BA would need to be paid out.


User currently offlineQantasBoy From Australia, joined May 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Something I talked about just about 4 months ago... BA gets rid of QF and they go to Star with SQ. This IS going to happen, just watch. With QF and NZ wanting to forge a bigger relationship, and with SQ simulator sharing etc, QF draws ever nearer to the *Alliance. With the void left by Ansett, Star needs QF, and wants QF.

Watch this space.

QfBoy
Star Alliance... The Airline network for earth


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4471 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If QF joins star then QF can still code-share with AA etc. Star has said that they need to fill the gap left by AN in Australia so Star NEEDS QF

User currently offlineNz1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4470 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

777ER,

Your comments re the maintenance are not entirely true. We don't do ALL the 763,744 and 737 D checks at all. We have done about 15 763 C checks and Pylon Mods over the last 4 years or so, along with 4 or 5 733 C checks. A few of QF's 763's have gone to SASCO in the past as well. We have never done a 744 D check for QF. The 733's you mentioned in CHC were JetConnect aircraft, and are only done in CHC because it is cheaper than flying them to MEL.

Regards
NZ1


User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

If QF joined Star, that would sure do away with any competition on US Mainland-Australia/NZ routes. It would also probably crush any chance for SQ to start service from SYD-LAX. It would, however, be good news for Emirates in their hopes to start LAX-AKL.

As ANstar correctly points out, QF's main International markets are Asia, Europe & the US.

North America - they would be able to take advantage of UA's LAX and SFO hubs. UA is more dominant at LAX than AA, and SFO can be offered as an alternative to LAX. Also, there might be an impetus to serve YVR again and even SFO.

Asia - Air China, SQ, TG, and NH.

Europe - Remember that most of QF's traffic to Europe goes through SIN and BKK already. However, QF has had to cancel several destinations to Europe in the past few years. Now, the option is to go to LHR and then double back if going to continental Europe. I think many people would rather the non-stops offered from SIN or BKK to destinations on the continent. Even if the destination wouldn't be served directly from SIN or BKK, stopping in FRA, MUC, or VIE would mean a few less hours spent in transit rather than going all the way to LHR. It would also mean that the kangaroo route would be used more for people actually going to Britain or Ireland (where BD would come in).

So, I think it would be to the advantage of both Star and QF if QF became a member of Star, even though they would now have to compete on the Kangaroo route.


User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3252 times:

If alliances actually delivered a fraction of the benefits touted back in 1997 and 1998 when Star and what has become tinyworld started out this post would be talking about really important business and operational issues.

But they didn't.

The QF perspective on alliances has under Dixon been that things like the SAA code share and the BA JSA are far more important. Let's face it. The former got rid of SAA from Sydney and the latter reduced BA to a grumpy participant flying far fewer of its own jets than before. Qantas even forced it to abandon its own Australian based Executive Club members like me. That stank.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2856 times:

If QF joins star then QF can still code-share with AA etc.

Why would they? United can provide more from SFO and LAX than AA can.

If QF joined Star, that would sure do away with any competition on US Mainland-Australia/NZ routes.

Yes, much like AA and BA on JFK-LHR, my guess is SYD-LAX would be well regulated by one of the two governments.

N


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 2748 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If QF joins star then QF can still code-share with AA etc.

Why would they? United can provide more from SFO and LAX than AA can.


Yes I know that. What I was meaning was that QF could continue to code-share with AA out of the AA hubs, other then SFO and LAX


User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 2666 times:

Two things to add on to people's comments about airlines from rival airlines doing maintenance on each others aircraft or other sort of agreements.

I remember that at one point, BA did a some maintenance for VS. The rumor was that each time a VS plane came back from maintenance with BA the "No Way BA/AA" slogan would be painted over. No way to confirm the latter part though.

Also, look at the cargo world. SQ, LH, and SAS operate together in the WOW group. This group also includes JAL. Well, I guess that JAL is not technically a member of Oneworld (Am I correct?), but they are more closely tied with OneWorld than anyone else.





User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 2625 times:

which would allow QF and AA to codeshare out of what cities? HNL?

-n


25 Sydscott : QF will not be joining Star period. Lets just think about this for a minute. The posters above tout an alliance between QF and SQ as the major reason
26 Mulder : NZ would be unlikely to leave Star Alliance either. New Zealand Tourism Board had suggested that NZ leaving Star would be harmful to the tourism inter
27 Qantas077 : Australia is the missing link in Star alliance's crown, i think Star members would welcome it!
28 Wdleiser : United has a good service to Australia that Qantas and UAL can cooperate with. If I were Qantas UAL would look like a much better airline and would be
29 JoFMO : For sure Star would welcome QF. There were strong rumor about SQ establishing their own domestic Australian affiliate after Ansett's demise. But due t
30 Post contains images Sydscott : "In fact competition between SIN and Australia is very and strong and a possible tie up between SQ and QF would not mean that any route which has com
31 Post contains images BOEING747-700 : Would be nice, I can use my FF points from Air Canada with them
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Star Alliance - New Members? -Qantas? posted Sun Sep 22 2002 20:20:23 by StarFlyer
What Happens If Qantas Join Star Alliance? posted Mon Sep 9 2002 06:50:57 by MEA
Qantas To Join Star Alliance? posted Tue Aug 20 2002 05:43:58 by Bells
Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance posted Sun Jul 28 2002 08:32:56 by Air Taiwan
Qantas Being Lured By Star Alliance? posted Fri Jun 7 2002 05:28:51 by Wirraway
Qantas May Join Star Alliance - AFR posted Fri Jun 7 2002 03:27:45 by VirginFlyer
AC/UA Leaving Star Alliance? posted Wed Dec 13 2006 22:14:59 by S.p.a.s.
BCN To Become Star Alliance Hub For South Europe posted Wed Dec 13 2006 04:40:57 by Rogerbcn
BCN And Star Alliance posted Tue Dec 12 2006 18:25:53 by Skyteam2000
Star Alliance 'a Hosgeldin Turk Hava Yollari posted Sat Dec 9 2006 16:31:38 by Bahadir