Scotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1188 posts, RR: 3 Posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5532 times:
Story in FT regarding QF's future and their plans for expansion in Asia. Seems all is not rosy between QF & BA, despite what both of them say.
Apparently BA was surprised when QF snapped up 4 slots at LHR and QF was surprised when BA sold its stake in QF. Additionally, QF's plans for the so called "Kangaroo Route" are through HKG and BOM where it will compete directly with BA on those sectors. Furthermore, it seems QF want to forge a partnership with SQ in the operation of the A380, plus expanding their presence at Changi, which is their largest operation outside Australia. Coupled with the low-cost carriers they are setting up to be based in Asia in partnership with the largest shareholder in SIA, there could be a very good reason for them to quit OneWorld and join Star.
Trolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5398 times:
What's to say that this isn't a sign that SQ is going to quit Star and join oneworld?
The Joint Service Agreement (JSA) between QF and BA on the Kangaroo route is very strong. Basically it removes the competition between the two carriers as they pool the revenue on the route. A BA rep told my travel company once that it actually doesn't matter which flight a pax goes on as the revenue is split anyway. Don't forget that BA/QF have a joint relationship that goes back for decades to the dawn of intercontinental travel.
Joint maintainence agreements between competing airlines are nothing new, many were formed at the start of the 747 era. eg KSSU (KLM, Swiss, SAS and UTA) for the DC10. Indeed 777er, how much maintainence does NZ perform for QF?
QF can benefit from Changi because of the open skies agreement and the pro-competition policies of the Singaporeean governement.
Its also worth remembering that the US routes are vital to QF. Star currently offers three airlines that are in various forms of bankruptcy protetction in North America, but oneworld offers the more secure AA. This on carriage is crutial to QF.
The key factor will be consumer watch dogs and whether a change of alliance would be demeed anti-competitive.
My 2cents worth is that I don't think the QF/BA alliance is going to come undone quickly, but it will change.
ETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5375 times:
Read the full story at http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c1860d58-05ae-11d9-bff2-00000e2511c8.html. For some reason the comments made by Dixon do have a tone that suggests there might be more going on, as in a rift between the two airlines.... especially after reading "There are some tensions coming into the relationship with BA over Qantas's growth," said Mr Dixon. To publicly state this including the surprise over BA's sale does show that they could be parting ways, or are trying to show who's the boss around there...
Mulder From New Zealand, joined Sep 2004, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5350 times:
That is not likely to happen anytime soon. Though Qantas has a number of codeshare agreements with Star Alliance members or future members, like Asiana Airlines, South African Airways, also FFP partners SAS, US Airways and SAA, it has much more connection with oneworld partners. To quit oneworld would be very inconvenient for QF at the moment. But could happen say in five years, by the time maybe Air China would have joined.
Trolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5288 times:
Just raising a different point of view. This is a frequently discussed topic, but the assumption out there always seems to be the QF will leave oneworld if it starts dealing with SQ. Who's to say the oneworld can't offer benefits to SQ that Star might not.
Alliance switching will always be governed by way more than a simple parting of ways of two very close airlines. I think ETstar is closer to the mark when he mentions posturing. To my knowledge there have been departures from alliances caused by financial troubles or the likes, but no voluntary switches.
Australia and Singapore have a very open aviation market, it's only natural that two savy, profitable airlines will find ways to benefit from this freedom.
Mozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5160 times:
To my knowledge there have been departures from alliances caused by financial troubles or the likes, but no voluntary switches.
Actually there has been the case of Mexicana leaving Star Alliance purely because it wanted to. The reason given was that MX was no longer code-sharing with UA - but then SQ stopped code-sharing with LH on FRA-JFK without leaving the alliance, so I don't know what to make of it.
But you are absolutely right in pointing out that switching alliances is not just a matter of leaving and erasing a logo from planes. There are financial hurdles, although I do not know what the penalty fees are for airlines leaving oneworld.
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12773 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5024 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Indeed 777er, how much maintainence does NZ perform for QF?
NZ perform ALOT of maintaince for QF. When I was at the CHC maintaince base a few months ago there were three B733s there. Two were having the D check done and the other an A check. When I was walking pass the AKL maintaince base earlier this year I noticed two QF B744s there. NZ will be performing maintaince of the JQ (JetStar) A320 fleet. I think NZ perform all the D checks on the QF fleet off B737s, B767s and B744s
QF and NZ are wanting to combine their resources on flights in and out of New Zealand. Each airline will code-share on each others flights. NZ will control all of QF New Zealand domestic operations.
ANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5502 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4800 times:
I reckon QF will stick it out with Oneworld.
QF's main International markets are Asia, Europe & the US
Europe - They have a close partner in BA
US - They have a great relationship with AA
Both these Alliances work very well for QF.
Asia - They plan to start their LCC Jetstar Asia and have 'other' opportunities they are looking at.
By joining STAR the Asian LCC plans might be seen as treading on partners toes. So therefore I see Oneworld as the best fit for QF at the moment and can't see them moving to STAR.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3253 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4780 times:
Guys, QF may want STAR, but does STAR want it?
I think the answer to that question is no. And as for SQ, well, I think CX would need to exit oneworld first before They'd even consider SQ. This may be on the Cards because CX doesn't exactly have a good relationship with BA or QF. I think CX was really just interested in AA's big frequent flyer base for to feed its north american flights.
I could definately see, however, the strength of a merger between QF and SQ. That would definately product some interesting results, of course, BA would need to be paid out.
QantasBoy From Australia, joined May 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4753 times:
Something I talked about just about 4 months ago... BA gets rid of QF and they go to Star with SQ. This IS going to happen, just watch. With QF and NZ wanting to forge a bigger relationship, and with SQ simulator sharing etc, QF draws ever nearer to the *Alliance. With the void left by Ansett, Star needs QF, and wants QF.
Watch this space.
Star Alliance... The Airline network for earth
Nz1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2290 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4706 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Your comments re the maintenance are not entirely true. We don't do ALL the 763,744 and 737 D checks at all. We have done about 15 763 C checks and Pylon Mods over the last 4 years or so, along with 4 or 5 733 C checks. A few of QF's 763's have gone to SASCO in the past as well. We have never done a 744 D check for QF. The 733's you mentioned in CHC were JetConnect aircraft, and are only done in CHC because it is cheaper than flying them to MEL.
UA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4069 times:
If QF joined Star, that would sure do away with any competition on US Mainland-Australia/NZ routes. It would also probably crush any chance for SQ to start service from SYD-LAX. It would, however, be good news for Emirates in their hopes to start LAX-AKL.
As ANstar correctly points out, QF's main International markets are Asia, Europe & the US.
North America - they would be able to take advantage of UA's LAX and SFO hubs. UA is more dominant at LAX than AA, and SFO can be offered as an alternative to LAX. Also, there might be an impetus to serve YVR again and even SFO.
Asia - Air China, SQ, TG, and NH.
Europe - Remember that most of QF's traffic to Europe goes through SIN and BKK already. However, QF has had to cancel several destinations to Europe in the past few years. Now, the option is to go to LHR and then double back if going to continental Europe. I think many people would rather the non-stops offered from SIN or BKK to destinations on the continent. Even if the destination wouldn't be served directly from SIN or BKK, stopping in FRA, MUC, or VIE would mean a few less hours spent in transit rather than going all the way to LHR. It would also mean that the kangaroo route would be used more for people actually going to Britain or Ireland (where BD would come in).
So, I think it would be to the advantage of both Star and QF if QF became a member of Star, even though they would now have to compete on the Kangaroo route.
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3488 times:
If alliances actually delivered a fraction of the benefits touted back in 1997 and 1998 when Star and what has become tinyworld started out this post would be talking about really important business and operational issues.
But they didn't.
The QF perspective on alliances has under Dixon been that things like the SAA code share and the BA JSA are far more important. Let's face it. The former got rid of SAA from Sydney and the latter reduced BA to a grumpy participant flying far fewer of its own jets than before. Qantas even forced it to abandon its own Australian based Executive Club members like me. That stank.
Iowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2902 times:
Two things to add on to people's comments about airlines from rival airlines doing maintenance on each others aircraft or other sort of agreements.
I remember that at one point, BA did a some maintenance for VS. The rumor was that each time a VS plane came back from maintenance with BA the "No Way BA/AA" slogan would be painted over. No way to confirm the latter part though.
Also, look at the cargo world. SQ, LH, and SAS operate together in the WOW group. This group also includes JAL. Well, I guess that JAL is not technically a member of Oneworld (Am I correct?), but they are more closely tied with OneWorld than anyone else.