UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11 Posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9390 times:
Ok I know that this does not seem likely right now and is far out there but I have to bring it up. For the past month I have been hearing people talk about AA and F9 management discussing a merger. At first I just played it off just like every other airline rumor that we hear every day. I got a little more interested in the rumor when I found out that FRONTIER had added a new policy in the employee manual regarding mergers, but that still was not enough to prove anything for sure. A few weeks ago in a news letter released to managers there was a comment saying that F9 did not add the policy because they are currently in talks, they said that it was just something that the legal department thought needed to be added. What got my attention about that was that they mentioned American Airlines specifically. Here is the quote: A new policy was added to the employee manual, and it includes merger protection language, notifying employees of their rights in the situation of a merger or acquisition. Still, the new policy wasn't added in anticipation of a merger or acquisition, by American Airlines or any airline.
We all know that when the airline is talking about these kinds of things they will deny it until they absolutely have to come out with it, this is standard procedure for an airline, however in my experience it is not standard for them to mention specific details like they did with AA. The final thing that made me post this was that I talked to a few people at AA that work in the Corp. Office and they had known about this rumor also.
To me this seems like a good idea. I know AA is not doing too great right now but they are also not doing to bad when compared to others. AA has always wanted a larger presence in Denver, and this would give it to them. When you look at the F9 and AA route map together they work out great. They also do business in some ways the same. F9 is growing at a steady but not to fast pace. They keep their long term debit low and cash high. They offer a higher level of service than an LCC really has to. They have a successful FF program and so on. All of that can also be said about AA.
What do you think? Could this be in the works? Would they work together well?
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9198 times:
You could be completely right and that is most likely what they did. The chances of this being totally wrong are about 99% more likely than it being true, but with all the talks I just thought I would share it with everyone..
CALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4129 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9187 times:
i'm sorry but come on........this has got to be one of the most ridiuclous things i have ever heard..........it would not match up right. Mgmt./pay scales/fleets/route structure...I understand that there may some small points here and there that may point to some sort of idea but this is not going to be one of them that will go through.
okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
SU184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 246 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9179 times:
How will get along with their fleets then, F9 with its A318/319's & AA with almost all Boeing fleet, I know F9 is way smaller and sure if this results in a full merger the Airbuses will have to find new home, but the A318 would be hit for the second time from AA.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9118 times:
I would guess if they did merge FRONTIER would be ran as AA's LCC division. It would be ran like an efficient Song/Delta or Ted/United. Basically what they would be doing is what UA and DL have done but they would be way ahead of them. Instead of making your own LCC with the same staff that works for the mainline it would be a branch off of the company. This is what UA and DL want to do but for them it will take a long time to get it done.
Now I agree 100% with you on this Mariner, I would love to see some kind of close relationship between the two though!
AirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 583 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9007 times:
Luv2Fly is exactly right. The company addressed that in our weekly crewmember newsletter. Every newsletter has a "Rumors Fly" section where rumors are addressed. Rather than letting the rumor grow or dancing around responding to the issue, management addresses rumors to satisfy the curiosity of its employees. After all, we do have a right to know.
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7586 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8978 times:
Personally, if there's any truth to this rumor; I hope that it DOESN'T happen!!!!!
PHL just got F9 and I had a chance to fly them last month when I used them to go to PDX during my vacation. I was very impressed with their service plus, I got a very reasonable fare; r/t PHL-PDX w/DEN connection for $314 which was about $10 cheaper than WN with only one stop along the way as opposed to two.
The last thing we need, especially at PHL, is some big carrier gobbling up another smaller more affordable carrier and then cutting back on service when they realized that they bit off more than they could chew. Examples: AA slashing service at TW's STL hub, US grabbing PSA in the West Coast then dropping most of its newly-acquired routes (not just the overlaps). Not to mention the return of grossly overpriced fares.
One would of thought that AA learned some lessons from the TWA and Reno Air acquisitions; if this rumor's true, apparently AA didn't learn anything.
[Edited 2004-09-14 22:07:14]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2319 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8803 times:
It would be a grand screwing for the F9 employees. F9 considers it's employees an asset. There is your first cultural difference between F9 & AA
AA corporate (model of arrogance) would gain space at a few airports and a customer base.
AA Employees (never treated as assets) would see to it that F9 people were put behind, and below them in every respect.
F9 would wither and die before the merger could be completed.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
Hz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8785 times:
Oh yeah, and AA would inherit a fleet of Airbus narrowbodies!!! That means when the 767 fleet is up for renewal they would choose the A330 over the 7E7 because of commonality. This deal would be a big, big win for Airbus!!!
AZJUBILEE From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4149 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8729 times:
What would AA WANT from a merger with Frontier? There is nothing to gain. If they wanted to expand in DEN, they alread have the ability to do so. DEN is not bursting at the seams and is not a slot controlled airport. AA is free to increase its precence in DEN as is all the other airlines out there. THis is one of the more rediculous merger rumors out there... much like the DL and CO one.
Frugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8576 times:
A F9/AA merger might be a good move by AA. Should UA go down into Ch7 (I actually think UA will survive), then AA would have a good foothold in DEN with which to grow another hub. The only major hangups I see are the express carrier contracts (F9 with QX in particular) and F9's Airbus fleet. Should the merger go through, the QX contract would be subject to scope clauses, and I believe AA would replace the A318/319 fleet as soon as possible given their excellent relations with Airbus, if they have the cash.
Moman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8573 times:
I often thought that AA should have made TWA it's low cost carrier instead of an all out integration. I think the synergies could have been huge. It would be interesting to see them do it with Frontier.
Of course TWA would have to have been worked over pretty well.
Aa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8379 times:
I would like to say "will never happen" But I would say it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.....AA does NOT have the $$$ to do anything, heck AA cannot even pay its own bills! AA's unions would have a S$*% FIT over it, and it would go against AA's turn around plan of fleet simplification.
This is JUST A RUMOUR. NOT TRUE!
Aeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7709 times:
Well, maybe far fetched, however if one thinks United is destined to fail, and one wanted to capitalize on a good hub location, and one has many surplus planes parked in sunny dessert spots, then buying an outfit like Frontier, and phasing out the Airbus planes in favor of one'sn surplus MD80/738's, maybe this would work. Gates are precious at DIA right now, however I don't know if they worth $300 million to AA to get a hub in there. Interesting possibility....