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F9 And AA Merger Talks?  
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9210 times:

Ok I know that this does not seem likely right now and is far out there but I have to bring it up. For the past month I have been hearing people talk about AA and F9 management discussing a merger. At first I just played it off just like every other airline rumor that we hear every day. I got a little more interested in the rumor when I found out that FRONTIER had added a new policy in the employee manual regarding mergers, but that still was not enough to prove anything for sure. A few weeks ago in a news letter released to managers there was a comment saying that F9 did not add the policy because they are currently in talks, they said that it was just something that the legal department thought needed to be added. What got my attention about that was that they mentioned American Airlines specifically. Here is the quote:
A new policy was added to the employee manual, and it includes merger protection language, notifying employees of their rights in the situation of a merger or acquisition. Still, the new policy wasn't added in anticipation of a merger or acquisition, by American Airlines or any airline.
We all know that when the airline is talking about these kinds of things they will deny it until they absolutely have to come out with it, this is standard procedure for an airline, however in my experience it is not standard for them to mention specific details like they did with AA. The final thing that made me post this was that I talked to a few people at AA that work in the Corp. Office and they had known about this rumor also.
To me this seems like a good idea. I know AA is not doing too great right now but they are also not doing to bad when compared to others. AA has always wanted a larger presence in Denver, and this would give it to them. When you look at the F9 and AA route map together they work out great. They also do business in some ways the same. F9 is growing at a steady but not to fast pace. They keep their long term debit low and cash high. They offer a higher level of service than an LCC really has to. They have a successful FF program and so on. All of that can also be said about AA.

What do you think? Could this be in the works? Would they work together well?


/// UNITED AIRLINES
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9086 times:
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Maybe management is getting tired of answering questions concerning this rumor and decided the best way to do that is to address the issue, instead of dancing around it.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25418 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9030 times:
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I've heard the rumors, too. I put them in the same category as the strong rumor a year ago that Frontier was geting A321's or A330's (pick your Airbus).

Or, on the other hand, it cvould be in the same category as the strong rumors that Frontier was going to open a base at LAX. The rumors were so strong that management denied them - for a while.

A merger? I doubt it. Frontier is a very expensive airline to buy, with a market cap more than HP.

However - all that said - an alliance, code share, call it what you will - between one of the majors that doesn't have a huge presence at DEN and an airline like Frontier would make a deal of sense.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9018 times:

You could be completely right and that is most likely what they did. The chances of this being totally wrong are about 99% more likely than it being true, but with all the talks I just thought I would share it with everyone..


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9007 times:
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i'm sorry but come on........this has got to be one of the most ridiuclous things i have ever heard..........it would not match up right. Mgmt./pay scales/fleets/route structure...I understand that there may some small points here and there that may point to some sort of idea but this is not going to be one of them that will go through.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineSU184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 239 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

How will get along with their fleets then, F9 with its A318/319's & AA with almost all Boeing fleet, I know F9 is way smaller and sure if this results in a full merger the Airbuses will have to find new home, but the A318 would be hit for the second time from AA.

User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

It would probally drive AA under, 2 completely different fleets, and almost 2 completely different route structures. It would be the final nail in AA's coffin.

-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8938 times:

I would guess if they did merge FRONTIER would be ran as AA's LCC division. It would be ran like an efficient Song/Delta or Ted/United. Basically what they would be doing is what UA and DL have done but they would be way ahead of them. Instead of making your own LCC with the same staff that works for the mainline it would be a branch off of the company. This is what UA and DL want to do but for them it will take a long time to get it done.

Now I agree 100% with you on this Mariner, I would love to see some kind of close relationship between the two though!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineHz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1689 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8919 times:
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I think it would stink! It would put UA/AA head-to-head at two airports (more if you count LA [less so for AA]).


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25418 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8872 times:
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Don't you love a good rumor to get everyone's juices flowing?

Put it this way: Frontier's present market cap is about $300 million.

HP's market cap is about $230 million.

Which airline would you buy?

But - as I say - a code share is a whole different ball game. It wouldn't cost anything.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirplaneBoy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 566 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Luv2Fly is exactly right. The company addressed that in our weekly crewmember newsletter. Every newsletter has a "Rumors Fly" section where rumors are addressed. Rather than letting the rumor grow or dancing around responding to the issue, management addresses rumors to satisfy the curiosity of its employees. After all, we do have a right to know.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8798 times:

Personally, if there's any truth to this rumor; I hope that it DOESN'T happen!!!!!

PHL just got F9 and I had a chance to fly them last month when I used them to go to PDX during my vacation. I was very impressed with their service plus, I got a very reasonable fare; r/t PHL-PDX w/DEN connection for $314 which was about $10 cheaper than WN with only one stop along the way as opposed to two.

The last thing we need, especially at PHL, is some big carrier gobbling up another smaller more affordable carrier and then cutting back on service when they realized that they bit off more than they could chew. Examples: AA slashing service at TW's STL hub, US grabbing PSA in the West Coast then dropping most of its newly-acquired routes (not just the overlaps). Not to mention the return of grossly overpriced fares.

One would of thought that AA learned some lessons from the TWA and Reno Air acquisitions; if this rumor's true, apparently AA didn't learn anything.

[Edited 2004-09-14 22:07:14]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33040 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8762 times:

One would of thought that AA learned some lessons from the TWA and Reno Air acquisitions; if this rumor's true, apparently AA didn't learn anything.

What lessons? They acquired and elimiated the compietition. It all worked out fine for AA. Sure, there were headaches, but the mergers were not disasters.



a.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

As Virgin (or Branson  Insane) once said, "NO WAY BA / A^A"

To which I'll say, "NO WAY F9 / A^A"

As many have already stated above: just not very likely, but intriguing none the less.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8623 times:

It would be a grand screwing for the F9 employees. F9 considers it's employees an asset. There is your first cultural difference between F9 & AA

AA corporate (model of arrogance) would gain space at a few airports and a customer base.
AA Employees (never treated as assets) would see to it that F9 people were put behind, and below them in every respect.

F9 would wither and die before the merger could be completed.




I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineHz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1689 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8605 times:
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Oh yeah, and AA would inherit a fleet of Airbus narrowbodies!!! That means when the 767 fleet is up for renewal they would choose the A330 over the 7E7 because of commonality. This deal would be a big, big win for Airbus!!!


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineAZJUBILEE From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8549 times:

What would AA WANT from a merger with Frontier? There is nothing to gain. If they wanted to expand in DEN, they alread have the ability to do so. DEN is not bursting at the seams and is not a slot controlled airport. AA is free to increase its precence in DEN as is all the other airlines out there. THis is one of the more rediculous merger rumors out there... much like the DL and CO one.



AZJ


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13644 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8538 times:
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FWIW, we keep hearing about a potential AS/F9 merger - although I doubt it would ever take place.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25418 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8493 times:
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EA CO AS:

AS/F9? Is that still around? I thought that rumor died about 18 months ago.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8396 times:

A F9/AA merger might be a good move by AA. Should UA go down into Ch7 (I actually think UA will survive), then AA would have a good foothold in DEN with which to grow another hub. The only major hangups I see are the express carrier contracts (F9 with QX in particular) and F9's Airbus fleet. Should the merger go through, the QX contract would be subject to scope clauses, and I believe AA would replace the A318/319 fleet as soon as possible given their excellent relations with Airbus, if they have the cash.

User currently offlineMoman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8393 times:

UAL747DEN:

I often thought that AA should have made TWA it's low cost carrier instead of an all out integration. I think the synergies could have been huge. It would be interesting to see them do it with Frontier.

Of course TWA would have to have been worked over pretty well.

Moman

[Edited 2004-09-14 23:47:32]


AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8199 times:

I would like to say "will never happen" But I would say it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.....AA does NOT have the $$$ to do anything, heck AA cannot even pay its own bills! AA's unions would have a S$*% FIT over it, and it would go against AA's turn around plan of fleet simplification.
This is JUST A RUMOUR. NOT TRUE!


User currently offlineAeroman62 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

Well, maybe far fetched, however if one thinks United is destined to fail, and one wanted to capitalize on a good hub location, and one has many surplus planes parked in sunny dessert spots, then buying an outfit like Frontier, and phasing out the Airbus planes in favor of one'sn surplus MD80/738's, maybe this would work. Gates are precious at DIA right now, however I don't know if they worth $300 million to AA to get a hub in there. Interesting possibility....

User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7503 times:

AA would NOT want F9. Just from one thing alone, AIRCRAFT TYPES.

Rumor is Rumor, folks....



THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25418 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7259 times:
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Aeroman62:

It would be more than $300 million. Frontier shareholders would expect something more than the current market price - at least 50% more.

So American would need to offer at least $500 million (cash or stock). And I can't imagine American would pay that.

NWAFA:

"AA would NOT want F9."

In this case, the greater question is - would F9 want AA? And I can't think of one reason why they would - except for an awful lot of money.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2004-09-15 05:00:48]


aeternum nauta
25 Jafa : The only reason for AA to buy F9 would be to eliminate competition. AA can easily come up with 30 something airplanes if it wanted a presence in DEN s
26 Post contains images Iowaman : It would be more than $300 million. Frontier shareholders would expect something more than the current market price - at least 50% more. woohoo!!!!! H
27 Mariner : Jafa: "AA can easily come up with 30 something airplanes..." Yes, they could. But - just out of interest - what gates at DEN would they use? cheers ma
28 Ckfred : I don't see this happening. First, AA's past mergers haven't lived up to AA's expectations. Air Cal was supposed to give AA a north-south presence on
29 Flyibaby : First of all, DIA has often bragged that they could build another two concourses due to their vast amount of space. If AA wanted in there, all they wo
30 UAL747DEN : For the people that think that AA wouldn't want F9, you are crazy. F9 is among the best LCC's and the second most finically stable if you ask me. Of c
31 Flyibaby : UAL747, I agree, but we would all have to agree that AA would kill it. If AA is good at something, that is it.
32 Post contains images ILSApproach : Just my opinion. Mike
33 ERJ170 : With regard to AA building up service from Eagle to mainline in RDU. Maybe, but most likely not. Very true. I am almost 90% sure that AA will not buil
34 Swardu : I doubt AA would even concoct a merger idea with Frontier. AA's past track record with mergers in my eyes leaves little to be desired. Merger with Air
35 LMP737 : One would of thought that AA learned some lessons from the TWA and Reno Air acquisitions; if this rumor's true, apparently AA didn't learn anything. T
36 Falcon Flyer : NWAFA: American bought AirCal and its fleet of 737-200s, 737-300s and BAe 146-200s, none of which were operated by AA. The AirCal MD-80s were gone wel
37 Post contains links and images DIA : "American bought AirCal and its fleet of 737-200s, 737-300s and BAe 146-200s, none of which were operated by AA." Wrong. American did indeed operate t
38 DIA : In regards to the AirCal MD-80s: I think they all ended up going to Continental.
39 Ckfred : When I talk about AA ramping up RDU, in the event of a US shutdown, it wouldn't look like RDU in the late 80s and early 90s. CLT serves 2 puposes for
40 Access-Air : I think what we really have to keep our eyes open for is some kind of Merger between AA and AS......They already do a codeshare...They both fly common
41 Ckfred : AccessAir: Part of the US/UA/AA/TW scheme was AA leasing a number of F100s to DC Air, which was going to take over a lot of US routes out of DCA. AA w
42 Post contains images EA CO AS : AS/F9? Is that still around? I thought that rumor died about 18 months ago. That's what I'd thought too, but rumors were running wild right before the
43 DIA : "OH and Yes.....Falcon Flyer.... AA did indeed fly 737-20s 300s and 146s....and all In full AA colours...I have seen them all with my own eyes...Look
44 Post contains images Mariner : EA CO AS: I'd guess - only a guess - that the F9 employee was having a bit of fun. At the moment, it would seem to me, and hey, what do I know, that A
45 Thrust : It might do good for STL...Frontier I thought found STL appealing to them and was looking to expand here....like the one focused on about AA and F9, t
46 Falcon Flyer : To reply to NWAFAs thread regarding aircraft types and mergers, the point I was trying to make was that none of those aircraft were operated by AA PRI
47 Rogerthat : I can remember hearing about an AA merger rumor with AS and the original Frontier 20 years ago.
48 Airfrnt : The AA/F9 stuff is extremely unlikely for a variety of reasons. 1) AA owns DFW. Having another hub so close is completely useless for them. DL pulling
49 Post contains images 7E72004 : The time that F9 and AA merge will be the time that i have Natasha Henstridge in my lap!!
50 Rogerthat : Who's Natasha Henstridge?
51 Aa777jr : F9 isnt the best airline and had not much going, I don't see how this is gonna make AA a better company (financially). Hope this doesn't bring them do
52 Moman : Airfrnt: About DFW being more appealing for AA, my neighbor who is a mgr for AA says they are concerned about AirTran, JetBlue, and the like coming in
53 Airfrnt : Moman: Yes, to a degree. DL leaving DFW allows for more traffic thru a major hub. As Crandall figured out way back when Hubs are more and more profita
54 Boeing nut : Folks, if there is one thing that I have learned while working in this industry - don't believe anything until you see it with your own eyes. This is
55 Flashmeister : F9+AA? I don't quite see the point except to eliminate a competitor that isn't that big of a player in AA's market. If they wanted to nick a thorn, th
56 Post contains images AirplaneBoy : I heard rumors about UA merging with Aloha, Alaska merging with JetBlue, Southwest is merging with US Airways, AirTran is merging with Hawaiian, Ameri
57 Post contains images 7E72004 : natasha henstridge is the blonde actress with a very FINE body and VERY good looking that was in the "Species" movies...she was also in Ghosts of Mars
58 Jlbmedia : Dose anyone know how Frontier Airlines is doing in PHL? It appears SWA is having a record breaking start up in PHL. Who is affecting Frontier in PHL m
59 JC5280 : QUESTION: WHy is it assumed AA would acquire F9? What about AA being integrated into F9s business? Just a question, but I still think this rumor is ri
60 Post contains images Flashmeister : It's pretty clear that AS is determined to stay 'agnostic' as it were. I'm actually pretty surprised by the agreement with DL, despite their NW/CO agr
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