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DL's Retired Pilots May Fly Again  
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3363 times:

As reported today (9/15) in the Atlanta Journal Constitution's Delta Insider:

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Retired pilots may fly again
Delta considers stopgap deal

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/15/04

Retired pilots may fly Delta Air Lines' planes as part of an interim deal as the pilots union seeks to head off Delta's potential bankruptcy deadline at month's end.

Leaders of the Air Line Pilots Association agreed late Tuesday to negotiate with Delta after the carrier warned last week that a wave of early retirements by senior pilots could ground aircraft and cause a crippling cash drain.

Potential solutions "may include the possible use of early-retired pilots returning to active status for a limited period of time," the union said in a resolution.

However, the union said it also wants "suitable assurances" from Delta concerning the pilots' retirement plan and "other legal issues."

The union wants a guarantee from Delta that pilots would not be blocked from cashing out part of their retirement if the airline's financial condition continues to deteriorate. Earlier this week, ALPA said Delta had asked for an agreement that would require retiring pilots to give up to 120 days' notice before taking early retirement. Currently, as little as one day's notice is required.

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Looks like the retired guys might live to fly another day!




"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3290 times:

This looks like grabbing at straws to me- management knows it will lose the higher echelon pilots if they don't stop this retirement crap. These retired pilots must be under age 60 to fly, but I wouldn't see this as an economical deal- many of them may be 55+, which will only provide a few good years of flying. Also, think of the training costs to bring these guys back into the seat. My vote? Move everybody up into the seats that are vacated, and bring the furloughees into the narrowbody seats. Just my .02.

I can see how this has put DL over a barrel though- alot of the guys threatening to jump ship would be 76ER, 777, etc Capts, or anybody with over 20 yrs. That would ground and cripple DL's longhaul op for awhile, until others could be moved up and trained.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

I agree w/ you completely...the one thing you forgot to mention was not only training costs, but the high salary costs that DL will have to pay a group of guys who are most likely topping the pay scales...just doesn't seem economically efficient.

There's a lot of good young pilots out there who should get their shot in the seat.



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

I think the whole issue is that they need the already trained pilots to fill the seats so that they can keep their most important revenue streams open. I'm sure its only a matter of time before they bring people off furlogh or bump up. It just takes some time.

User currently offlineMm320cap From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 228 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

The structure of the deal that I have been hearing is a little different than what the Atlanta news is reporting (surprise). Basically, there are literally thousands of Delta pilots who are getting ready to retire early in order to take their lump sum retirement in case the company files Ch 11. Well, if 2000 pilots walk tomorrow, then Delta is unable to cover the schedule. So the idea is to keep the current, qualified Delta pilots that are getting ready to retire in the next month or so, or who have done so in the last month, in their seat until the training center can upgrade pilots to fill the vacancies, and recall enough furloughees to fill in the bottom. Actually, I thought it was a pretty clever idea...

User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

"the one thing you forgot to mention was not only training costs, but the high salary costs that DL will have to pay a group of guys who are most likely topping the pay scales...just doesn't seem economically efficient."


First of all, there will be no training costs for the retired guys. The only people who are able to do this will be the people currently flying. They will retire one day, then the next be on the job as a contract pilot for a limited period. Second, the costs will not be too bad. They will not be paid the rates of a Delta pilot. They will be paid a reduced rate, probably enough so that the combination of thier retirement and their contract pay is the same as what they were making before. Last point, this will be a limited thing. A 55 year old will not be able to retire and stick around for five years. The company will be allowed to use these pilots for no more than six months to one year on the outside.


User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3092 times:

Where would they fit in the senority pool? Why should a 15 year veteran who is sticking with DL fall further down on the senority line when someone who jumped ship wants to come back?

User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

"Where would they fit in the senority pool? Why should a 15 year veteran who is sticking with DL fall further down on the senority line when someone who jumped ship wants to come back?"


Well, they will not be on the seniority list at all. And they will only be around til their replacements are trained. But, as far as bidding for their monthy schedule, they will likely be placed at the bottom on the catagory they are in for bidding purposes, if they are allowed to bid at all. I have heard that they will essentially be reserve pilots, only to be used if a flight would be cancled for lack of a regular Delta pilot.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Bucky,

Sounds like this has happened before? If so, it seems like just a quick fix until everyone can move up a seat?

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineMoman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

The retirement of the old pilots is good news in the sense that some younger guys will get to move up and then maybe they will hire again soon. Sad to see so many good, young pilots waiting because of the terrorist assholes.

Moman



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

If your over 60, you can't fly, I'd assume they are talking about DL pilots that took early retirement?



User currently offlineFritzi From United Arab Emirates, joined Jun 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

Aa777jr,

With your logic, you answered your own question, which is a yes.


User currently offlineJonesy869 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

DL pilots..u r crazy if u even allow this to happen...might as well let any contract pilot come in and fly your big boys....this helps out the company big time and lets a senior guy take advantage of the junior guys..so u say no big deal, the guy can only fly for 3 years so as to cover schedule...if u dont want to upgrade and get the extra money then send it to me...3 years of seniority is big in the industry now...so if that keeps u out of a better seat for 3 yrs..over say the next ten...u are losing alot of money...if the senior guys want to stay and play great, but when u leave, stay left.....

User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

Jonesy869:

if the senior guys want to stay and play great, but when u leave, stay left.....

I would agree with that when it comes to professional athletes like Michael Jordan and Deion Sanders, but it doesn't seem like DL has much choice unless they do rash of new hirings w/ a crash course in a/c familiarity, coupled w/ furlough call-ups.



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

As much as DALPA hates the idea of this, the idea of the 764 and 777 fleet sent to the desert due to lack of pilots, which would seal bankruptcy and cost the airline hundreds of millions is an even worse prospect.

The current idea, from what I've heard is to allow pilots who are about to retire to collect their pension early, but to continue flying while replacements are being trained.

There are only 3 764 sims in the world -- one at ATL, one owned by Boeing, and one at CO. I doubt CO is gonna loan out their sim to help Delta, but who knows.


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