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Don't Fool Around In The Cockpit!  
User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3090 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

This was sent to me this morning.
Does anybody have anything on this one
as to the where/whats?

Unbelievable photos.

http://www.teamhouse.tni.net/Misc/noplay/cockpit.htm


Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11061 times:

While the pics are real, the socalled FDR text isn't - I personally doubt that the CVR would be on when the aircraft is parked at the gate.

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11032 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Actually the texy from the CVR is real, I have read it in a published report.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offline9A-CRO From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10930 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

well cleaners were on airplane
http://aviation-safety.net/database/2000/000614-0.htm



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10909 times:

The CVR is not real. This was, if I recall, a brake failure during maintenance taxi because the mechanics failed to run the checklist.

Starting the engine is not as easy as pushing a button. It requires a sequence of events that have to be performed correctly or you don't get a start.


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10843 times:

Whoever believes that text is simply foolish.


You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1972 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10827 times:

On the other hand, there actually was a Russian A310 that crashed ten years ago, killing everyone, because the pilot let children play with the controls during the flight.


It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10823 times:

I believe that I read that it was a break failure as well.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCoa764 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 328 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10812 times:

Pictures are real, text is not.. This happened in EWR a few years back. Mx was doing a power up on the engines and didn't set the brakes.


Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7811 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10788 times:

I believe what happened here was that line mechanics were playing in the cockpit and firewalled the throttles... not knowing that the engines were running. It is difficult to hear the engines at idle in the pointy end of a MD-80. Plane went forward and carnage ensued.

The plane was a write-off.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10784 times:

AirTran, don't know where you read the CVR, but it doesn't tally with the website already mentioned or this one:
http://www.jacdec.de/j_report-00n16884.htm

Interestingly this was almost exactly 3 years after a very similar event happened to another CO aircraft, a 727, again at EWR: http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/n571pe/4.shtml

Geoff M.


User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10779 times:

To 9A-CRO-

Thanks for the report.
It does say 6 cleaners were aboard.But it's
still blurred.






Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10609 times:

"On the other hand, there actually was a Russian A310 that crashed ten years ago, killing everyone, because the pilot let children play with the controls during the flight."

--- True, but this accident can´t be compared with this fault of course. In the Aeroflot case, the captain had his kids on the flight deck and let them steer the plane manually (the kid probably thought it worked the same as with that fighter game on the pc...). For some reason the crew didn´t notice the plane was going down...


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10583 times:

Mx (who's name I'll omit) did not follow checklist, throttle levers were at full, and brakes were not set prior to engine start.... The text in the link at the top is false.

User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10556 times:

Levent, from what I recall (apologies if any errors), the kids were sitting in the pilot and copilot's seats, with the plane on autopilot. The first officer was at the back of the plane talking to passengers. One of the kids pushed the steering thingy (of whatever type) sharply forward, which disengaged the autopilot, and sent the plane into a deep dive. The captain (and certainly not the FO) was not able to bring it under control again (guessing probably after mashing his nose on the windscreen). The events were pieced together from the CVR.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10530 times:

No jet transport aircraft I have flown (and I have flown more than I care to admit) has an "engine start" one step button. Even the easiest, and most automated to start, that is the latest Airbus series, have at least several steps for engine start.


Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10384 times:

Actually what happened on the Aeroflot flight is that the captain's son was in the captain's seat and his daughter was in the copilot's seat. The son moved the steering thingy ("control column") which put the aircraft into a bank, and disconnected the lateral axis of the autopilot, leaving the vertical axis ("V nav") still under automatic control. From this point, the aircraft (flown, semi-unaware, by the boy) kept rolling, but the autopilot kept maintaining the programmed altitude.

As the plane rolled over further, lift was gradually lost while trying to maintain altitude (and it was high, 39,000 feet if memory serves) so the autopilot kept bringing the nose up, airspeed bled off and they stalled as they rolled past vertical, and the aircraft went straight into a spin (induced by the unusual bank angle at the moment of the stall). The G forces exerted by the spin made it impossible for the captain to reach past his son and get his hands on the controls until they were almost into the ground, and as we know, got there too late to pull out in time.

It may seem surprising but jets don't need much rudder to make a coordinated turn, so there is very little G sensation in a turn and even an "unusual attitude" may go undetected until all hell breaks loose, completely unexpectedly. In fact some cockpits (UK I'm sure this is the rule; not so everywhere else) have an alarm or beep that sounds if bank angle exceeds 30 deg, and it does exist for a reason (see also: Air-India 747 crash at Bombay, 1 Jan 78).



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10357 times:

"On the other hand, there actually was a Russian A310 that crashed ten years ago, killing everyone, because the pilot let children play with the controls during the flight."

You may want to rephrase that, as to make it just a bit more truthful. If you can't do that, you shouldn't have brought this up at all.


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10349 times:

Remember the Eastern L1011 crash in the Everglades? The crew was focusing on whether the gear was down and locked or not, as one of the indicator light bulbs was broken, and in the meantime the captain accidentaly pushed the yoke forward enough for the autopilot to disangage. The plane crashed into the swamp.

User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10348 times:

Cedarjet, thanks for correcting it (ok lateral rather than vertical!). I did try a few searches on Google and airline sites but couldn't actually find it.

"steering thingy" - senior moment, or (ahem) try a few beers like I had!  Wink/being sarcastic

Geoff M.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10325 times:

In support of what Corey07850 said, what I had heard was that two separate MX items had been accomplished that night.

The first involved some type of work on/near the throttle quadrant that resulted in the thrust levers being moved out of their normal "idle thrust" position and left in a position associated with a higher thrust setting. The engines were off at this time, nobody noticed, and nobody moved them back once the work was done.

The second work item involved one of the engines, after which needed to be run it at the gate. When the guy lit it off, he did so with the thrust lever still not in the idle thrust position. With the abnormally high power setting, the aircraft surged forward, jumped the chocks, and went into the building. There were some cleaners aboard, but they had zero to do with causing the accident.

The "transcript" mentioned at the begining of this thread is a product of someone's imagination.



[Edited 2004-09-15 23:09:05]

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10322 times:

GeoffM, I didn't mean to be patronising. Man, I would love a beer right now.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

>>In support of what Corey07850 said, what I had heard was that two separate MX items had been accomplished that night.

The first involved some type of work on/near the throttle quadrant that resulted in the thrust levers being moved out of their normal "idle thrust" position and left in a position associated with a higher thrust setting. The engines were off at this time, nobody noticed, and nobody moved them back once the work was done.

The second work item involved one of the engines, after which needed to be run it at the gate. When the guy lit it off, he did so with the thrust lever still not in the idle thrust position. With the abnormally high power setting, the aircraft surged forward, jumped the chocks, and went into the building. There were some cleaners aboard, but they had zero to do with causing the accident.<<

Same story I have heard. In addition, the guy doing the run, who was in a hurry to leave for the night, ran the engines while kneeling behind the center quadrant. This would explain why the brakes were found to be in perfect working order yet never used.

The "FDR" text could not be more false. Anyone who has started the engines on a DC-9/MD-80 could tell you this. It's one of the more difficult engines to start without melting it down or grenading the starter.


It should also be noted that the FDR does not record cockpit conversations....the CVR does!


[Edited 2004-09-16 01:02:16]

User currently offlineFlymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7276 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10130 times:

On airdisasters.com it says that Mechanics where doing engine run up and failed to set the brakes. Thats all. Also I think the throttle might have been up a little.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineCO2BGR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 558 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9556 times:

OPNLguy has the story correct,

Some more details from being there that afternoon:
The MD-80 was at gate 115 one of the two "dungeon"gatesat the end of C-2 which is now the RJ councourse at EWR. The flight I was leaving on to BOS was leaving from gate 112 whose waiting area over looked the two dungeon gates. I was standing close to the 112 door, basicly over the 114 jetway. The MD-80 hit about 15 feet to my right. It came in very fast once it jumped the chocs, about 1.5 seconds. It was the result of an enging start up at full power because of MX fowlowing improper procedures. From my perspective I basicly stared at the plane as it came in then was like oh S#!+, we were all evacuated from that gate area rather quikly as they were not sure of the structural integrity of the building. No flights left from C-2 for the rest of that day. The BOS and DCA flights took quite a hit as C-2 was the "shuttle" concourse with some other flights. I never got out of EWR that day as all of the flights toward the North east were cancled or over booked from all of the revenue passengers. I left the next day to BOS. C-2 was closed from 110 to 117 that day. My flight left from 102 which is the gate closest to the main terminal. Nobody (pax wise) realized what had gone on the prior day, Security said that end was "under construction". The plane was removed overnight and the hole tarped over.

I guess that is about it.



There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
25 CO2BGR : One more thing. That was the first time i had seen the pictures form down stairs.....Wow it messed that place up.
26 Post contains links and images UA777222 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Juan C. Silva N16884 Cn 48074/1026). It is said that the aircraft's engines were accidentally started at gate 115..
27 CO2BGR : The engines were NOT accidently started. They were started as a mx check, they were soposed to be at idle but the levers were not returned to idle by
28 XFSUgimpLB41X : I dont think it's possible to accidentally start a jet engine... Even if you press the start button in the CRJ, for example....there has to a pneumati
29 Aa777jr : That is crazy, so did the pilot screw up or was it really cleaners that jacked it up? What type of plane is that? CO??? AA777jr
30 ILSApproach : Hopefully no one got hurt..............but I laughed out loud when I saw the pic from inside the terminal. I found it rather humorous with the plane r
31 OPNLguy : >>>That is crazy, so did the pilot screw up or was it really cleaners that jacked it up? What type of plane is that? CO??? The pilot didn't screw up.
32 Aa777jr : Next time, take the key outta the ignition when parked at the gate...haha. AA777jr
33 Post contains images 777ER : Has the MD-80 been scrapped as it will never fly again? Bet the person/s responsible were out of a job very quickly. Must admit having the plane parke
34 N766UA : I got a good laugh out of that "CVR transcript" part. Funny stuff. Unfortunatly, the pics aren't so funny.
35 Post contains images Flyguyclt : What is so funny to me is, that some of you actully think an airplane is started with the flip on one button. But then again, sometimes people on the
36 KBOS : For some reason, every time I see those photo's I think of the movie Airplane.......
37 Post contains images Willo : What is so funny to me is, that some of you actully think an airplane is started with the flip on one button.... when we all know it's done from the b
38 Trickijedi : Man I haven't seen those pics in a while. Funny CVR rendition though.
39 MD11Engineer : The text is clearly BS. But there are other dangers involved with people playing around in the cockpit. First, you can activate hydraulic systems and
40 10MID : With external air hooked up, and the pneumatic panel configured right, the ERJ can be started with the flip of a switch. FADEC takes care of everythin
41 Post contains images PanAm747 : I can't believe nobody quoted "Airplane!"... "...Forklift? It's over that way..."
42 Psa53 : On Jay Leno last night- John Travolta,who was the guest,admitted he let the his kids in the cockpit of his aircraft..He(Travolta) got cut off while an
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