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What Happened To This Engine?  
User currently offlineAkjetblue From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 790 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8066 times:

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what happened to the idea of using this engine on civil comerical aircraft? The few people who I talked to and even knew about it said that it was very efficent and quiet. Even Embraer had an aircraft design using an EMB-120 with an extended hull with similar (but smaller) engines on the back positioned in the same manner...


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Anyone rememeber this? Any info would be apperciated...

Thanks,
-Philzy


Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21418 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

According to many previous threads on the matter, the UDF program got cancelled due to the end of the oil crisis and due to several technical problems. Safety in case of blade separation and generally excessive vibration and noise seemed to be among those...

The question is if the UDF could even compete against modern high-bypass turbofan engines any more...


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

The UDF engine was test flown on a 721 and the above M80. I also recall reading about some resistance from airlines due to the "propellor look" of the UDF.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7957 times:
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It's a unducted fan engine. it's like the same thing as putting the blades inside, but they are out too and they counterrotate. Embraer did the same thing too.

here is the same thing with Boeing

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"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7955 times:

Efficient it was not.

The program was abandoned due to the early test data indicating a lot of design work and testing would be needed before anything viable could come of it. Ducted fans are much more efficient at higher speeds.

Boeing (or a related company) also fitted a 727 with a similar engine.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7640 times:

The program proved to be too expensive, the engine was too loud (louder than a turbofan if you can believe it), and passengers get freaked when they see a prop...why, I don't know, but props have some magical ability to scare passengers.

User currently offlineLuxair From Suriname, joined Jan 2001, 848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7515 times:

Just a question who came up in my mind, wasn't there
a Russian built Aircraft using such a kind of counterrotating
engines, I remember that I've seen it a few years ago but can't remember the details anymore, maybe somebody knows more about?



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineBoeingnut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7495 times:

You're probably thinking of the Bear. Big Soviet turboprop bomber, used four engines, each with two counterrotating propellers. Thing was fast for a prop plane. It was meant to be the Soviet equivilent to the B-52

User currently offlineLuxair From Suriname, joined Jan 2001, 848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7449 times:

Boeingnut, you're right regarding the "Bear" but it wasn't that plane. The one I mean is more recent must be in the 90's!!! It was a high wing design as the IL-76 but a lot smaller and if I'm remember correct than it was more like a regional jet let's say more the size of a RJ-100 but than with only 2 engines instead of 4. I will try on Google to find something and let you know.


Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineLuxair From Suriname, joined Jan 2001, 848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7387 times:

Ok, I found something about, the plane I mean, is an AN-70
with 4 counterrotating engines, thus I have to correct myself on the fact that it was a 4 engined AC and not a 2 engined one  Smile/happy/getting dizzy The AN-70 is a prop driven one and the above mentionned ones are Jet driven, is that correct?



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineRG828 From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7343 times:
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Even Embraer had an aircraft design using an EMB-120 with an extended hull with similar (but smaller) engines on the back positioned in the same manner...

Its actuall the CBA-123, jointly developed by Embraer and FMA of Argentina.


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Its just a normal pair of Garret turboprops in pusher configuration, not a UDF.

RG



I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6644 times:

The Engine was called the GE-36 It was scrapped before it even had a chance to be ordered. Another project off the drawing board.

User currently offlineRareBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Lockheed flew a Gulfstream GII in 1987 with an unducted propfan engine mounted on the left wing, with a counterweight on the right. It was a test program to develop the 6-blade Dowty propellor for the C-130J program.


Illegitimus non carborundum
User currently offlineAreopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Its just a normal pair of Garret turboprops in pusher configuration, not a UDF.

Well, what distinguishes a turboprop from a UDF? The swept scimitarlike blades? New C-130s have them. Blades driven directly off the turbine without gearbox? The Pratt competitor to the GE-36 had a gearbox.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6278 times:

Heavy construction behind hot combustor, hot air exhaust around the blade angle adjustment mechanisms ... complex

A fan in front of the hot section would provide compressed cool air around the combustor, even if the plane is on the ground, maybe not a bad place after all..

 Smile


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