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Rome - Milan - In Need Of Low Cost Competition  
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

AZ are fleecing passengers between Rome and Milan with stupidly high fares, and need proper low cost competition from either EasyJet or Ryanair.

Compare the price of Rome Milan to other trunk city shuttles around Europe

AZ FCO - MIL €118
IB MAD - BCN €76
SK CPH - ARN €82
EI DUB - LHR €34
BA LHR - EDI €43
LH FRA - MUC €46
AF PAR - NCE €43
KL AMS - LON €89

And spot where there is the biggest room for competition. Come on Michael O'Leary... time to break into a gold mine that will exceed DUB STN!


The world is really getting smaller these days
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSarrebal From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

I dare you to find any airline able to fly several flights a day from CIA to BGY and make money.

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

The dare is on.... the answer is FR.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineSarrebal From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

Well, then you don't know that market that well...

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Bearing in mind that the Italian Government were complaining to BA and others about unfair low fares that were harming AZ, I think it highly unlikely that they would let a LCC operate between Rome and Milan, even if the EU regulations permit it.




MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

Sarrebal - I know what Ryanair are cabable of.

And I beg to differ on my European Short haul market knowledge.

The Trains don't offer any competition - if they did the AZ fare would be much lower than it is today...



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineSarrebal From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Bestwestern,

I wouldn't.

But maybe a brief review of the Milan-Rome market would help...


User currently offlineDebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2399 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2638 times:


well, to my knowledge, there is a LoCo-flight.

Volareweb.com flies from Milan Orio al Serio (this airport is not direct into mailand, but promoted as such!) to Rome Fiumicino.

Milan - Rome 06.50-07.55 31/10/04 26/03/05 123456- VA 8709
Milan - Rome 07.50-09.00 01/09/04 30/10/04 123456- VA 8701


Rome - Milan 19.55-21.10 31/10/04 26/03/05 12345-7 VA 8710
Rome - Milan 20.00-21.00 01/07/04 28/10/04 1234--7 VA 8710
Rome - Milan 21.15-22.35 01/09/04 30/10/04 1234567 VA 8704




User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

The Trains don't offer any competition
but they will - about 3 hrs city center Rome to city center Milan - most likely already next year with the brand new Pendolinos "EuroStar Italia" trains.

Having 1 hour flying time - plus the usual minimum 30minutes check-in plus the time needed to go to/from the airports .... For the moment the train takes 4 hours with high quality "EuroStar" trains.


BTW:
I am always just wondering why some people are that keen to see LCC´s entering the markets - especially FR. Anyone ever thought what problems those LCC´s have caused not only to other airlines but also to other areas - travel agents for instance? What happens to caterers? No airline ordering food anymore? What happens to other industry related to the airtransport? What happens to the usual infrastructure around travel? Is someone really thinking that those cheapies travelling for 29 Euros to some place to spend money on hotel accomodation, restaurants and so on? Come on - I´m so pi...ed off with those LCC´s!

The Michael O-Learys of todays airlineworld are the jobkillers number 1 in the transport-travel industry!


=TW741=




TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineLxsaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Feb 2004, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Meridiana flies between Milan Linate and Rome Fiumicino offering lowcost prices! Starting from 9 euro + tax for each way!!
Other fares are : 19 , 29 , 39, 49 ... till 189 euro!!


User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2599 times:

To BestWestern:

FR could be successful on the Milan - Rome route only if they use LIN. A LIN-FCO operated by FR will become for sure the top route of FR network. Maybe a LIN-CIA could work, but if you don't use LIN you loose all the Milan market.

Over 1 years ago Volare tried a 6 daily BGY-FCO, but except the two morning flights to FCO and the two late returns (the flights they have kept until today) all the other flights were a disaster. Fares were from 5 Euro one way, but still empty.



User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24906 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2548 times:

If FR started Milan-Rome (whatever airport they use), they could kill AZ single handedly


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offline777-500ER From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2546 times:

BestWestern,

You have it out for the Italians. Don't you?

Michael SFO


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Boy... everyone is very sensitive here today... Why would I hate the Italians... Alitalia isn't italy, its an Italian company. Enron isn't the US.

I have it out for badly run airlines (AZ is badly run with €2m losses a day) who uses unfair state subsidies to hamper competition. A basically bankrupt AZ bought another bankrupt carrier Gandalf for the Linate slots using government money. Hence the LIN slots are even more restricted for competitors, and giving AZ the ability to further fleece customers on FCO LIN, making it one of europes most expensive routes.

So even if Ryanair or EasyJet wanted to fly from Rome to Linate they couldn't - as AZ basically have all the slots! But Ryanair (who I am not a fan of BTW - see my profile) can and will succeed in turning CIA BGY into a x10 daily route - and unlike Volare or Meridiana be successful at it.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineSfo777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Can't beat the train between Milan and Rome, around 4 hrs, much cheaper than any of the air fares listed above, and no need to go all the way out to Malpensa or Fiumcino, both which are 30-45 minute trips by bus, train or car.

User currently offlineSarrebal From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

GKirk,

Very much wrong.

Nobody could beat AZ (and AP) on Milan-Rome route flying out of BGY.

Bestwestern,

Have you ever tried driving from downtown Milan to BGY during peak hours?
Try it and you will change your mind about any carrier (not even FR) being successful on the BGY-CIA route.


User currently offlineEugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

"am always just wondering why some people are that keen to see LCC´s entering the markets - especially FR. Anyone ever thought what problems those LCC´s have caused not only to other airlines but also to other areas - travel agents for instance? What happens to caterers? No airline ordering food anymore? What happens to other industry related to the airtransport? What happens to the usual infrastructure around travel? Is someone really thinking that those cheapies travelling for 29 Euros to some place to spend money on hotel accomodation, restaurants and so on? Come on - I´m so pi...ed off with those LCC´s!"


I am amazed at this comment!! Since when are travellers in the business of provided jobs for caterers and travel agents simply for the hell of it! If travel agents are not required and if catering is not wanted by passengers (who would prefer cheaper flights) then they should go! Travellers are not in the business of provided employment for those who are not needed. It would be a complete waste or resources

It is the customer that matters not the employees. When aircraft replaced ships as the means of trans atlantic travel, jobs were lost in the ship business. That is economic progress. The workers who are sacked find work in areas of the economy where they are needed.

Customers needs come first - not employee wants!


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

Sarrebal - Yes, I have driven from BGY to Milan city centre, but don't forget that hardly anyone travels from city centre to city centre for business.

In Rome, CIA has a better catchment location for passengers than FCO (which is the better airport), whilst in Milan, LIN is excellently located. But with the strength of FR branding they can may BGY work, just like they have made STN and PIK work - the airports in the middle of nowhere. catchment wise BGY is even better located than STN, and thousands of times better located than PIK, BVA, GIR, HHN, where Ryanair works.

When they do come on to the route, lowest fares will fall from €118 to below €50.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1916 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

I agree with BestWestern that Milan-Rome is indeed in need of cheaper fares. Or by AZ lowering theirs or by a new airline, introducing the low-fares.

I don't care who is doing it, but it has to be done. The over-protection by the Italian Government is not doing any good for the competition in Italy, nor Alitalia self.

As a very frequent Milan-Rome traveler I was never able to book the cheap Meridiana-flights and was always stuck with AZ. (However, the boss is picking up the tab... Big grin).

Cheers!



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