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New Paint Scheme Then Bankruptcy  
User currently offlineTarantine From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 210 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10264 times:

After thinking back, it seems that when an airline changes their paint scheme, soon after bankruptcy looms. Pan am, United, TWA, USAirways and now Delta just to name a few. I hope American Airlines keeps their nice old paint scheme.
I also wish Delta would just go back to the classic paint scheme too.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10143 times:

I also wish Delta would just go back to the classic paint scheme too.

At this point, changing an entire fleet's worth of paint would create even *more* expenses. UA is sort of an exception, their new color scheme actually cuts cost. It is a simpler design that requires less man hours and resources of the old design.


User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10095 times:

, their new color scheme actually cuts cost.

Are you talking in long run? How does it cut costs?


User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10078 times:

It's not as though UA is repainting aircraft right and left. They are only repainting aircraft that come in for heavy maintenance. The new livery is not as complex and thus costs less to paint as the aircraft would be repainted anyway.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 10056 times:

TARANTINE.....A perfect example of your thread is Vanguard Airlines who was painting their MD-80's with a very original scheme and one I kinda like. Then they were gone. Now ya see em, now ya don't.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently onlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4094 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 9989 times:

Umm, UA was in bankruptcy BEFORE they launched the new livery.

User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1837 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 9954 times:

And US Airways introduced their new name/livery in late 1997 (implemented in 1998), and bankruptcy didn't happen until 2002.

User currently offlineDeltaAgent1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 9856 times:

I didn't know Pan Am changed their livery prior to their bankruptcy.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 9831 times:

Delta-

I think they are referring to the change to the 'Billboard' livery.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineILSApproach From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

What does this mean for NWA............???

Braniff comes to mind on the paint scheme thing too.

And no AA will never change that scheme................it's too much of an icon for them, If you ran AA would you. That brightly polished fuselage .....WOW! Always liked it, always will.


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Mike


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 9538 times:

And no AA will never change that scheme................it's too much of an icon for them

Yeah, AA will never change their livery! Never!!


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Photo © David Schulman



Their livery's too much of an icon! woohoo!

It's just a paint scheme. It'll be changed eventually like everybody else's, and like AA's has before too. Almost every large airline you could think of had a scheme that you probably considered an "icon" because that's what you grew up with. But they all change at some point, even AA's.

btw, this thread is much ado about nothing. Liveries change on average something like every eight years. So there's a pretty good chance that any airline that goes out of business will have changed their livery at some point just a few years previous. It doesn't signify anything, and it ignores the hundreds of other airlines around the world that have changed their liveries multiple times with no ill effects (including AA).



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineLorM From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 8171 times:

I'll slip this in, so if you miss this, you miss it... I just came back from UA's Denver Training Center...

UA's first 747-400 to be painted in the new colors will go into the paintshop on November 15th. Previously been discussed that it will be in Novemeber. But got a solid date.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Mike



Brick Windows
User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7952 times:

Squirrle83,

The new liveries are basically cheaper to apply than old ones, thus reducing costs.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

UAL's first 747-400 to be painted in the new colors will go into the paintshop on November 15th.

Cool.. I was in AMA several years ago and saw the final two 747-400's get painted in the 'old' gray scheme.

The new livers are basically cheaper to apply than old ones, thus reducing costs

Please explain this economic theory...?? Also, it is a big misconception on airliners.net that planes get stripped and painted after heavy checks. I have personally been involved in painting many-many aircraft, including both old and new UAL. NONE where just out of check and all where pulled right off the line, painted, and sent right back out to fly the line. In fact in the above mentioned UAL 747's the aircraft's arrival was delayed due to an APU fire in HKG. As far as the majors, only Delta has its own in house paint facility.

[Edited 2004-09-20 16:55:56]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7759 times:

i dont know about the economics of painting old liveries vs. new ones, but from a marketing standpoint, when a company is looking to refresh its image or portray themselves as new and improved to customers, new branding is a very common and effective approach.

once again, in bankruptcy, it is not about spending money but how it is spent. UA is right on in revising and refreshing its 'product' in trems of best practices. and dont think for a 2nd that if they didn't change anything, that there wouldnt be a flood of a-netters slamming them for not doing anything different while trying to turn things at the airline around.

further, the approach to gradually repainting planes per a schedule based on heavy maintenance seems like a practical way to do so, still keeping aircraft utilization and repainting costs in check.



User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 593 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7718 times:

I guess the same can be said for CO?


ETSN Baber, USN
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7638 times:

I guess the same can be said for CO?

Actually BigB... the current CO livery was already being applied to their aircraft when they went into their 2nd Bankruptcy. When Gordon Bethune took over he was looking at a conglomerate of different liverys from old and new CO, New York Air, PeopleExpress, Texas International and Frontier. One of the very first things he did was to order that ALL the aircraft would be painted within a year and fly under ONE livery.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7632 times:

I like the polished metal, the font, and the stripes on American's current livery but I think the AA with an eagle symbol looks dated. I notice that on a lot of materials they don't show that AA symbol as prominently as they used to... they show the nose of an aircraft and AmericanAirlines with no space between the words.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5222 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7596 times:

ILSApproach, what is brightly polished composite going to look like? The shiny metal look won't work on the new designs, esp. on the 7E7 with large portions of the fuselage being made of composites.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7495 times:

UA is sort of an exception, their new color scheme actually cuts cost. It is a simpler design that requires less man hours and resources of the old design.

Interesting.. how long does it take to paint all these windows for AI?? There must be extreme input of manpower..  Confused


User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7346 times:

I bet AI has a stencil for each type of a/c they fly to paint their windows.


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7234 times:

how long does it take to paint all these windows for AI??

AI stopped PAINTING the windows almost 20 years ago. The window art is stickers!!! Big grin


User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

Massey Brown....

re: composites on AA aircraft


.... think of the grey bodied ones...


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Photo © Frank Schaefer



...and for an updated look...or at least a change of the logo, take a look at this:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000894



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 523 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

...America west, Swiss(air), etc, Blah blah. The industry as a whole makes evolutionary steps periodically, just as any other product makers. I'm sure it would have been cheeper for Ford to continue producing Mustangs in the 1981 body style, or Microsoft to just keep Windows 95, but 'Brand Marketing' is all about evolution of the company's image. Are classics nice? Yes, but you dont see any '65 Corvettes comming off the assembly line any more, so give Delta's old livery a rest already!
It just happens that the industry is going through a revolution, and part of these cycles typically comes a fresh new look. What brings on these little revolutions in the Industry? The economy! When things slow down you need to change. What else happens when things slow down? Bankruptcies. Although related, one does not cause the other. It is wnwise to assume that when you see a company updating its imageor even reinventing its immage that it is looking at chapter 11.

Tom



Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

As far as I'm concerned any one who thinks DL should revive that ugly widget scheme is and idot.

You could compare the sleek new gravy scheme to that old one and you'd have to be blind not to see how that stunning white, red, and blue tail is compared to the dirty white, dark blue, turnoff scheme the widget bore.



GEAUX SAINTS!
25 Post contains links and images EMBQA : Rikkus67- Early on, AA's Airbus's where not painted because of a composite issue, but due to the type of assemble procedures used. Airbus, along with
26 THAIlover : Didin't I read somewhere that the new paint suppose to help save fuel? At least for JAL case but not sure about UAL.
27 Post contains links and images DfwRevolution : The shiny metal look won't work on the new designs, esp. on the 7E7 with large portions of the fuselage being made of composites. Hey... NW came up wi
28 Spacecadet : Hey... NW came up with something rather shiney- That's actually not shiny at all - it's some sort of matte silver. Maybe somebody here knows the exact
29 BOAC911 : At least United's fleet won't resemble a military fleet anymore. That grey was awful!!
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