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AF To Fly Non Stop LYS-EWR In 05?  
User currently offlineSkyteam10001 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 197 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

AF could try to fly direct from its secondary hub, LYS to EWR next year

the links are in French, sorry about that

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3228,36-379792,0.html
http://www.tourmag.com/index.php?action=article&id_article=74988&id_rubrique=422

apparently AF is looking at using the same kind of aircraft they use for their Dedicate operation.

The article mentions that DL used to fly JFK-LYS but axed it in 2001. The article goes on saying that using a smaller aircraft and potentially using the feed from CO at EWR could help make the flight profitable.

I think it is very interesting but I have a couple of questions

1/ I thought AF was all about the CDG hub, and now they would be strengthening their hub #2 (or #3 if you consider the AF-KLM group) ?

2/ why wouldn't CO be interested in linking LYS from EWR themselves ? Would one of their B757 not have the range ? Be too big for the route ?

anyway great news if confirmed !



13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8894 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

When I saw this, I was wondering whether it would be CO or AF. CO has a track record with secondary European cities using the 757, and there should be enough feed on both ends, coupled with local traffic, to at least fill a 757, which holds 40-50 less seats than the 767-300s Delta was using. Dedicate service could work, it's done pretty well with LH from MUC and DUS to EWR.

Jeff


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5232 times:

I can confirm that AF DOES plan to operate some A319-ER "Dedicate" on nonstop flights between NYC and LYS but also from/to TLS and BOD.

Concerning LYS, AA and DL tried successively to operate the route to JFK with a B767 but poor load factor and the proximity of GVA forced them to close the line.

The A319-ER offers the perfect capacity for this kind of market and would certainly make those routes profitable, especially from LYS and TLS.

Air France operates 4 A319-ER (F-GRXG, XH,XI + F-GTAS leased from AeroSerives) in a configuration of 28J/54Y on flights from CDG to SSG (Malabo - Equatorial Guinea), PNR (Pointe-Noire), DOH, KWI and TAS.

PNR and KWI show great load factors and an increasing demand so the route could be in a medium term operated by an A332.

2 additonnal A310-ER are to be delivered until July 2005, and new "Dedicate" services should be announced soon.


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User currently offlineSkyteam10001 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5087 times:

Flyssc, thanks for the confirmation

don't you think it is at odds with AF's strategy though ? ( -->make CDG a fortress hub)

I am thinking maybe CO was interested in the routes to feed their EWR hub so AF thought they could fly the routes themselves ?


User currently offlineAF-A319 From France, joined Oct 1999, 603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

I wonder what's AF marketshare for high-contribution PAX on these 3 routes?

-LYS-NYC
-BOD-NYC
-TLS-NYC

If this m/s is already very high (which seems likely due to the number of F+ customers, amongst many other reasons), why would they operate an A319LR when they can carry their PAX through CDG and take benefits of economies of scales?





User currently offlineFalcon Flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

US flights from French regional airports have always proved difficult. When UTA/Aeromaritime attempted EWR services from Bordeaux, Toulouse and Nantes, the demand just didn't materialize. As mentioned above, AA and DL service into Lyon was also unsuccessful. I can't imagine that a high-end Privatair-type service from the secondary airports could generate enough demand to succeed unless it originated from Paris or maybe Nice.


My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

Falcon Flyer, AF-A319,

AF's DEDICATE service has nothing to do with the "Privatair" type service.
AF's A319LR are configured with a classic Business/Economy cabin : 28J / 54Y. The particularity is that a long haul flight is operated by a narrow body a/c.

UTA attempted to operate nonstop BOD/TLS/MPL to JFK in the early 90's with DC10s, obviously too big capacity for these routes; Even the A310-300 used by AF at that time on LYS-JFK and NCE/LIL-JFK was too big...and the economical situation of AF (and the market) at that time was completely different compared to now.

This summer AF operated 6xDaily CDG-NYC ( 5XJFK + 1XEWR).
4 X Daily JFK will continue to be operated next winter and 6 X Daily JFK are planned for next summer 2005 (along with the Daily EWR).

NYC is AF's destination N°1 in terms of traffic. A lot of PAX (French or US) have to transfer at CDG to go to/from French Regions.

A nonstop flight JFK- LYS would "lighten" the connections at CDG for these PAX as LYS is the 2nd AF's HUB. Lyon Satolas is a very unsaturated efficient HUB, offering excellent easy short connections to all the French provinces but also to Germany, Switzerland, North of Italy, North-Africa, with also an excellent TGV connection right at the airport, like in CDG.


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Concerning TLS, it became an important economical area with EADS, Airbus and many "new technology" firms implanted there.



User currently offlineNceBoy From France, joined Sep 2004, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

Well, there is actually enough demand to fill a DL 767 (code share with AF)from JFK to NCE, which is the 2nd airport in France, but a much smaller city than LYS.

The point is that with the train you are only an hour and an half from Paris, and closer to GVA, considering that the train leaves inside the CDG building. However, you get the privilege of flying AF widebodies from EWR or JFK, and have a choice of schedules and times of departures etc, which is important to business travelers.

However, for people who are not in the need of frequent flights, I could see a small plane doing that job (AF didn't ordered the 7E7, but who knows), and code-share with Delta for flights to the US/Canada.



coz I'm leaving on a jetplane !
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

I have a feeling that either one of these cities will be one of hte "6" new destinations for us..........as we have already announced 2 of the 6.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

What have the two been? HUA and BRS? Is LOS still considered "unannounced"?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

"UTA attempted to operate nonstop BOD/TLS/MPL to JFK in the early 90's with DC10s"

UTA oprated from EWR, I remember well their DC-10s with the awesome paintjobs.

"A nonstop flight JFK- LYS would "lighten" the connections at CDG for these PAX as LYS is the 2nd AF's HUB. "

Again they are looking at EWR, not JFK.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJetranger2000 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4333 times:

What a coquencidence, I'm thinking of traveling to LYS in the spring of '05. Would make things much easier for me, not having to change planes, especially if I fly on NWA/KLM and having to stop in AMS.

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3924 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4214 times:

not sure what HUA is but yes BRS & LOS are the two so far...........and even though LOS has not been officially announced.....when the word comes straight from our President you know we're going to fly there.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 870 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

anyway a lot of flights were tempted from LYS MRS BOD NTE ... direct to NYC in the past , but none of them operated for a long time .

dennys


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