Laxintl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7603 times:
Following todays lifting of trade sanctions against Libya, the U.S. State Department has given consent for Boeing to provide Libyan Arab Airlines with 22 new aircraft, as part of a formal order to be made public shortly.
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7458 times:
If this is true, I am very shocked, seeing how their government does not like the US government!
Libya has stopped supporting terrorism, has given up all weapons of mass destruction, and is compensating victims of previous terrorist actions (particularily Pan Am 103). They have also satisfied the US and its Allies that they are sincere by showing us a lot of stuff we didn't previously know about(like their nuclear program), and by cooperating with inspections. As a result of these actions, US-Libyan relations have greatly improved. That is why the sanctions were just lifted. Ordering Boeing aircraft is a good sign becuase it shows that Libya does not expect this new situation to change for a very long time - you don't order new aircraft if you don't expect to be able to get parts and support in the future.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7404 times:
They have also satisfied the US and its Allies that they are sincere by showing us a lot of stuff we didn't previously know about(like their nuclear program), and by cooperating with inspections. As a result of these actions, US-Libyan relations have greatly improved. That is why the sanctions were just lifted
As frustrating as the U.S. sanctions may be to some people, Libya and Vietnam have shown that it really doesn't take much to improve relations with the U.S. If the U.S. can fight a war causing hundreds of thousands of casualties with Vietnam, then 20 years later be selling aircraft and discussing passenger freedom rights, then diplomacy is possible with just about anyone.
Maybe some concessions on both sides are necessary for oh say.... Iran
How about having Libyan Airlines as the launch customer for the 7E7
Yeah if you can't get AA to sign on, why not eh ?
I think these are likely to be a mix of 767-300ER and 737NG. Or maybe 777s and 737NGs? Does Libya have the traffic for an aircraft larger than the 763ER?
If I was very cynical, I might wonder if sanctions were lifted on condition that they bought Boeing. Welcome to the dirty world of politics.
Yeah... all of 22 aircraft means the U.S. would immediatly lift a export ban
If Boeing had that much influence, the 100 frame tanker order would have zipped through congress in the Express Lane without anyone blinking an eye. 22 aircraft are modest, but this isn't a mega-order that would give the aerospace lobby a reason to drastically reverse U.S. foreign policy.
Spacecadet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7199 times:
If I was very cynical, I might wonder if sanctions were lifted on condition that they bought Boeing.
We had no choice but to lift sanctions. If you tell a country "you do these things and we'll lift sanctions" and then they do all those things, you can't then go and say "well, we didn't really mean it, we're keeping the sanctions anyway". Because then every country in the world knows you don't keep your word, and no country has any reason for making a deal with you anymore because they know you'll just break it.
You can be as cynical as you want, but honor and honesty actually do play a part in politics too. We may not have wanted to lift sanctions (in fact Bush's foot-dragging suggests we didn't), but the reality is if we ever want sanctions to actually work, we have to honor our agreements to countries that meet our demands under them.
And as much as I personally dislike Bush, I agree with whoever above wrote about how this is an example of how easy we really are to get along with. Countries that don't get along with us don't get along with us because they choose not to get along with us. If we can do business with Vietnam and Libya, not to mention Russia and all of its former republics, China, Japan, Germany, etc., then we can do business with anybody. We have a long history in this country of turning enemies into allies. All we asked Libya to do was to stop supporting terrorism, give up their WMD program and compensate their past victims. And to their credit, they did. End of story. I doubt we'll ever be "friends" with Libya but we can and we have to at least treat them like a normal country now.
I don't think it's so surprising that Libya would want Boeing jets. Libya's wanted to do business with us for a long time; Khadafi's still something of a nutcase but he realizes that being able to deal with us would only help his economy. He's been trying to get those sanctions lifted for years and has now finally managed to do it. Buying Boeing would be a pretty powerful symbol for him, if nothing else; it's showing his people that he can be a benevolent dictator (able to forgive and forget), and showing the rest of the world that he is not bound by politics in making business decisions. Who knows what the real reason is, but I'm not surprised by it, whatever it is.
Behramjee From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7088 times:
Doesnt Libya's national airline already operate a small number of A 320s???
I expect Airbus to get the narrow body order if they already have A 320s and BOEING to get a B 763ER / B 7E7 order...Libya's airline does not need the extra range and capacity offered by a B 777-200ER.
However one mustne doubt that maybe and just maybe if Libya's national airline has leased in A 320s...they may return it back to the lessor and order indeed a full range of B 737NGs + B 763s + B 7E7s all brand new from BOEING.
But since FRANCE also has a big say with Libyan politics with regards to that UTA plane bombing...expect some serious talk for A 320s for narrow body fleet whilst widebody can be BOEING.
Warren747sp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7017 times:
Of course, they are going to order Boeing jets.
They had to pay France twice for the UTA victims after Libya had already settled with France many years ago. There must be a bitter taste left somewhere.
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6689 times:
Libya has stopped supporting terrorism, has given up all weapons of mass destruction, and is compensating victims of previous terrorist actions (particularily Pan Am 103).
I am still waiting for a valid proof from the STate Department for all these allegations. .. Maybe Colin Powell can call for another interesting PPT-Presentation in front of the UN and show us prooves, as he did before the Iraq war
This entire move is surprising in my eyes. Wondering why they did not go with Airbus after being - probably unjustified - sanctioned by the US
Behramjee From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6649 times:
Instead of JFK...EWR and IAH would be a better option as both cities are huge CO hubs and CO can feed Libyan's flights from these two hubs to TRIP.
For EWR...flights should be either nonstop or via a European city.
For IAH flights...flights should be via LOS...but the B 763ER cant do that however the B 7E7-800/900 can
European destinations which are important for oil $$$ into TRIPOLI are AMS-LHR-CDG-FRA-MXP and MAD. LHR and CDG could do with the widebodies whilst the rest can have A 320s/B 737NGs.
Yes it would be a very sensible option for Libyan to approach a struggling US airline like DL to buy some of its used B 738s and B 763ERs...JP MORGAN advised DL to sell all their 21 B 764s...so is there a chance?
Libyan could also think about UALs stored B 777-200ERs in the desert but I dont think so they need the extra capacity of the B 772ER but the range of this aircraft would come in handy on nonstop EWR and IAH routes from TRIP for sure.
Malb777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6609 times:
What a great world it would be if countries could order what they like from who ever and not have all this" political bulls*&t " trying to work out why and how and was it a condition of sanction lifting etc. Libya wants to buy Boeing then let them get on with it.
In light of this thread , if Iraq does not buy Boeing at the end of the current conflicts will there will be a thread saying Iraq has turned its back on its
savior's ( for want of a better word) and gone with a country that offered no help, and this was political decision. come on guys its a big world out there with people who know what they are doing .
After all I cant see to many people in here with foreign Affairs , business Management or similar positions in there profiles
Ts-ior From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6486 times:
Due to the geographic position of Tripoli and Benghazi, all the key destinations wanted to be served by LN could be reached by a 73NG or an 32S. As far as Boeing is concerned, i think that the B738 could be suitable for the airline, but what to do with the experience they get with the A320s ?! It is the role of the politicians here !!!
For long-hauls, a 764 could be suitable for the Lybian fleet.
BeechNut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6206 times:
I think you guys are leaving out a very good possibility in the order, an aircraft that would be perfect for a country the size of Libya with mostly short/medium routes: the MD95...oops sorry, the B717. Surely this would be a good opportunity to inject a little life into that moribund production line.
It's sort of midway between the F28 and 727. The order could very well include a mix of 737NG (as direct 727 replacements), B717 (as F28 replacements but not necessarily on a 1:1 basis), and 767 as the (gasp!) 707/A310 replacement.
Is Libya REALLY still flying the 707 in pax service??? S**t, might be time to head out there before this order is filled if they do, for a ride. I've flown on Viscounts and DC-8s before, but never the 707 (too bad I missed the VC10 too, maybe I'll have to sub an IL62m instead).