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AI Posts Tender For Lease Of 747 400 Combi  
User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4727 times:

AI has posted a tender for the dry lease for 2 to 4 747 400 combi aircraft.

http://mmd.airindia.co.in/aimmd/tender/JC_DL-747-400%20COMBI_9480.html

The aircraft are wanted for years 3.

Why has AI posted this just after recently posting a tender for the same type of aircraft

Is this to start more services or the replace the 747 200 and 300 combi aircraft.







Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4791 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

Excellent move...only problem is that there are vvv few B 744M operators in the world...namely BR-OZ-KLM.

Im not sure if CI has a few or none...I know LH had a few but I think they all were converted into full pax models.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

Excellent move...only problem is that there are vvv few B 744M operators in the world...namely BR-OZ-KLM.

Isn't it possible to convert them??


If we believe all AI tenders, we would have about 200+ a/c now in the fleet... what is going on?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Don't they do this 742/2/4 combi tender thing every few years, only to realize that there are none to be had?



User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

I thought Air Canada is supposed to be withdrawing there 747 400 combi aircraft . If that is the case then that makes 3 aircraft available in theory.


Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4791 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

Yes I forgot to mention ACs 3 B 744Ms that are being withdrawn from service this October so who knows maybe AI will take them. AC are withdrawing their B 744Ms at the same time AI wants them...interesting scenario isnt  Big grin

Mrniji...it maybe possible to convert a full B 744 pax into a Combi but that would take a while I would imagine and with the pace at which AI makes its decisions with regards to conversion costs-seats configuration-cabin layouts etc etc, such a move would take months and not be feasible for AI in the short run.

These B 744Ms are not going to be replacing AIs B 743Ms...instead they will be replacing the withdrawn B 742s in service most likely and will be flying on routes which needs a 275 seater aircraft and not a 400 seater B 744!!!

The B744Ms will come in handy for adding new flights for AI to UK...hopefully now we may see MAN service from India with these machines and more LHR flights.


User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8549 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4545 times:
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The AC machines would be an excellent chioce as they are P&W powered.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineAlexchao From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 688 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4522 times:

Im not sure if CI has a few or none...

I don't think CI ever had the 744M.

Isn't it possible to convert them??

Yes. EVA Air's B-16462 was once a Combi and is now in All-Passenger configuration.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Don't they do this 742/2/4 combi tender thing every few years, only to realize that there are none to be had?

Yes, they put tenders approximately every two months or so... Maybe these new a/c will replace some of the KE leased (when are they due?). Then, in case the AC rumor is true, hopefully AI will also install PTVs in order 'to adhere to their new corporate image with the ex-SQ'  Big grin



User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Just to reiterate: Why for all means are they tendering again??? They just tendered 17+ a/c, including some 74M... how are these tender processes going (especially for the 330/340/777 and the LR??)?? Or were they again only some show to utter the presence on the market... any agreements, or only hopes?? Details please..!


To say it differently: if someone has the evergy and insider knowledge, it would be nice to know which aircrafts are due to leave the fleet when to whom due to ending agreements, and which aircrafts of which types are due to arrive when from whom... I am losing my overview due to too many leasing agreements.. [I have so often put attention on new tenders, but no clue what is happening]

and last, but not leased... any intention to take some more wonderful 310 on lease?? They must be cheap and available  Big thumbs up



[Edited 2004-09-23 00:44:58]

[Edited 2004-09-23 00:46:28]

User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

I don't have any insider information but it seems that one more 747 400 might be joining the fleet in December after the one due in October.

http://www.airindia.com/page.asp?pageid=229

But the article does say two more fights to Los Angeles effective October 2004 which I don't think are happening until December. 2004.

Though I thought that before they paced tenders for the 20 aircraft that included the A330 A340 747 400 Combi and 777 they placed one for the lease of a 747 400 so this could be the 747 400 that is due in December.

They did say in this article

http://www.airindia.com/article.asp?articleid=251

that they have plans to add six more aircraft so could it be that

they add one 747 400 in October 2004

add one 747 400 in December 2004

add 4 747 400 Combi in March 2005

which makes six aircraft. So could that be the aircraft that they plan to add on lease.





Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

The Econ Times appears to publish anything that any mid-level GOI bureaucrat might mumble in between spitting out his paan and blowing his nose. And as we all know, these people don't know the difference between an Airbus A330 and a Pavan Hans phatphati if their life depended on it. I won't be surprised if it prints some moronic comment about starting flights to Antarctica soon.

User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

The Econ Times appears to publish anything

LOL! And true, just as we discussed in that other AI thread. Of the Bombay papers, the Indian Express seems to be the only one still at least pretending to be serious.
The Times group papers, including the Times itself and the Eco Times, should know better they will never ever be able to out sensationalise Mid Day. Consider two of Mid Day's front page headlines from this week alone: "Govinda moves in with Rani" and "Gujjus unhealthiest in city" (it then goes on to tell us to stay off the khandvi and penda!). Of course, there's the annual favourite: "Rains lash city".

And what's up with Mid Day, an afternoon paper, now available at the Currey Road signal at 8 in the morning?


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

following my replies 8/9: again there is a tender for 738... I thought the tenders for AI express are already in the evaluation process...  Confused

I just had a look at the tender doc...

Required by AI

- Overhead Projection System in each of the Passenger Zones or drop down TV monitors in each Zone


I hope AI stays in compliance with their tradition and goes, as Jay always says, for the former, i.e. the 70s style projectors you have to hammer on to make them work.. Big grin

[Edited 2004-09-24 00:13:11]

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

"Overhead Projection System in each of the Passenger Zones or drop down TV monitors in each Zone"

Because its cheaper than having one of the cabin crew provide a Kathakali performance in each Zone of the 738.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4057 times:

it would be nice to know which aircrafts are due to leave the fleet when to whom due to ending agreements, and which aircrafts of which types are due to arrive when from whom

Right now the only aircraft due to leave the fleet are the 747-200s that have been removed from all scheduled service in the winter schedule.

VT-AIF (ex 9V-SMF) is due to be delivered to Air India in October 2004 and is sitting with LH Technik in Hamburg.

That is all the immediate movements that have been confirmed. Nothing else planned for the winter schedule.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4052 times:

again there is a tender for 738... I thought the tenders for AI express are already in the evaluation process...

The deals are already signed for the first 3 737-800s for AIX that will be delivered in March 2005 for an April 2005 launch.

This tender is for the second and third phase of 11 aircraft for delivery later in 2005 and into 2006.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

The deals are already signed for the first 3 737-800s for AIX that will be delivered in March 2005 for an April 2005 launch.

Cool... who is the lessor? The Boeing Leasing Company? The flights will have an AI number right? Same livery?? Where is the first flight going? Any online booking promotions on AI or seperate webpage?? Questions...  Smile


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

"Any online booking promotions on AI or seperate webpage??"

Please.

They can barely update the AI webpage (other than useless crap like "methi khakdas now served to ladies observing Santoshi Maa day on Ahmedabad-London flights" or "Minister says Air India will rise like Ganpati at low tide"), let alone launch a brand new webpage for this new LCC service !


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

let alone launch a brand new webpage for this new LCC service !

Mostly agreed, Jay, although I personally have made great experience with teh AI online Booking.. SIN-GOI two years ago for $ 200... OK, I had to call up the BOM Yatrik office ten times to actually get the ticket delivered (this was supposed to happen within 48 hrs or so), but it worked  Big grin



User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

This article says that 2 of the 737 800 are coming from CIT and that 1 is coming from Boulliun.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/820861.cms

Hope that helps Mrniji.



Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

For all our criticisms and no-hoping AI, they have managed to increase capacity by approximately 80% in the past two years. I agree it will be sometime before they become world beaters but at least they are trying.

I'm not trying to blindly support AI here. But I see them giving the Johnny-come-latelies like EK, ET and QR a solid run for their money a few years from now. And yes, privatization is the key.

rgds//Vimanav

P.S. I just posted a trip report on AI LHR-DEL on 25SEP. Check it out.



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

"But I see them giving the Johnny-come-latelies like EK, ET and QR a solid run for their money a few years from now."

EK has been around for nearly 20 years now. Hardly a "johnny come lately." the only way AI can give EK et al a solid run for their money is if Bom and/or Del became huge transcontinental hubs, something I dont see happening any time soon. DNATA and EK are run by hyper-professional Brits and Aussies and the pioneering Sheikh Makhtoum. AI is run by a bunch of babus who need to shuffle tons of paper before they can order a pile of napkins, let alone a fleet to rival EK's.

I wish AI does become a giant in aviation, but until privatization comes along, as you quite correctly state, it aint gonna happen.


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

By airline industry norms, EK even though 20 years old is still a new comer considering all the other majors we are talking about are 50 years or more including AI.

Jaysit...

I don't dispute why these guys are doing well with all their Aussie and Brit talent. It's just that our guys are no less (I mean our business brains). The day we realize our potential (like we did with IT), we are gonna kick those babus in their butt and lick our airlines into shape. If it may take some real scoundrels to do that, so be it.

I'd give it a maximum of 5-8 years.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Vimanav,

I second your assessment 100 %... and yes, 5-8 years seems realistical, leeping in mind the growth potential.. good night


25 ETStar : Vimanav said: I'm not trying to blindly support AI here. But I see them giving the Johnny-come-latelies like EK, ET and QR a solid run for their money
26 Jaysit : "Vimanav, Ethiopian (ET) has been around for over 55 years so please get your facts straight." I think he meant Etihad Airways, not Ethiopian.
27 Gamps : EK are run by hyper-professional Brits and Aussies and the pioneering Sheikh Makhtoum Not sure when you went through DXB or flew EK - but if you did
28 Jaysit : "Not sure when you went through DXB or flew EK - but if you did you will see that it is Indian managers who run the show at EK as well as at DXB!" Cor
29 Na : As for the possible source AI might get the reqired 744 Combis from: there are the 2 jobless ex-MAS (GE-powered) aircraft which are owned by Boeing. M
30 Mrniji : Eva Air has planned a slow change from 744s (and some of them are Combis) to 773ERs but I doubt they can come into AIs timeframe Correct.. the speed A
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