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Giant Airbus Is A Giant Mistake, Says Boeing  
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5752 posts, RR: 47
Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11907 times:

Interesting little article:

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=&fArticleId=2234726

I think he's right, IMO.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11767 times:

I think he´s not right & orders prove it.

BTW, I think he didn´t say "Giant Airbus Is A Giant Mistake" it´s the usual press tactic creating sensation by combining words & pulling things out of context..



User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11714 times:

LOL! What do you expect Boeing to say? That Airbus made a brilliant decision and are going to come up with a great aircraft that is going to be a resounding success?

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11714 times:
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Well blow me, fancy the Boeing headman not congratulating Airbus for it's aircraft  Insane

The truth is that both A380 and 7E7 are needed (even if that's a hard concept for some people to accept!)

David


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12500 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11709 times:
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If Boeing say it often enough, then it will come true. But just in case Airbus get it right, then we'll join the party.  Insane

Just more A vs B hot air.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11698 times:

Boeing chief executive Harry Stonecipher said he believes European competitors Airbus has made a mistake in deciding to build the giant A380 plane, but said that if he's proven wrong, then Boeing would also build a super-sized plane.

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=Cqvd4WeientuWm0jVzwLUz2jVC3nbAxjIDq

Stonecipher is an aviation veteran, he is smart enough to formulate things right.



User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 259 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11659 times:
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"I love it when our competitors make a mistake,"

In France we have a saying, which literally translates into: " Do not sell the bear's skin before killing it...". No that I totally disagree with him, but hey, 139 orders for such a niche market aircraft before it even flies, come on, give it some credits.

Boeing was not competing with another company, but actually with three European governments who had spread out a safety net for Airbus, he charged, referring Germany, France and Spain, the three main partner countries in the Airbus programme.

Heeelllllloooooo, heard about a company called BAe Systems???

Loads of valuable arguments in that "wonderful article"...



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11651 times:

It's a prestige plane.

They'll never recover the $12 billion development cost.

But some aviation geeks will enjoy it.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineMD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 922 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

What else would you expect Boeing to say? That it's a great aircraft and everyone should buy one? It would be like Airbus saying the same about the 7e7!

I believe the A380 will fill an important niche in commercial aviation. It's been mentioned before, the A380 is the best way to increase available seats at super congested airports like LHR and high density routes without adding additional flights. And let's not forget the airplane's projected cargo capacity in it's belly and as a full freighter.

Obviously, time will tell, but I believe it will succeed and more airlines will order it as it proves itself in service. Let's wait and see.

cheers, Ralph



Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11595 times:

The aircraft IMO is not a giant mistake, and will be successful because as MD80Nut mentioned it is greatly needed on high capacity routes, airlines can cut down the amount of flights per day and can carry the same amount of passengers (for less) at the same time - something no airline would mind.

"I love it when our competitors make a mistake," Stonecipher said about the Airbus A380, a twin-deck plane designed to carry upwards of 600 passengers.

I still don't see the mistake, the plane isn't even out yet for them to say that  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

"The 7E7 is already the most successful new development of all time. It will be a hit," he predicted.

What a big surprise, he praises the 7E7 but bashes the A380 to hell.

Lets not turn this into an A vs B war


User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

The 7E7 is already the most successful new development of all time. It will be a hit," he predicted

Has Stonecipher seen his own order sheet?


User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5752 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11517 times:

Has Stonecipher seen his own order sheet?

Yeah, 52 firm orders in 5 months in this economy is not bad along with 14 orders whose contracts are to be signed soon and with strong interest from other airlines along with the rumored orders from China and NW. I think Boeing and Stonecipher has every reason to be confident in the 7E7.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11451 times:

Of course he's going to say that.

Those 120 A380 orders are equivalent to a loss of about 200 744 and/or 773 orders for Boeing.

Clearly a lot of airlines needed a super high capacity aircraft and have ordered it. The A380 may not make a ton of money for Airbus, but it sure as hell has dented Boeing's high capacity wide-bodied sales.


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11436 times:

Some people have just never looked beyond their usual uncongested Austin-San Antonio jungle jet runs...so how should they know that big airlines in the big world out there need larger aircraft than those used in upper Texas?  Wink/being sarcastic

15 airlines, close to 150 orders, with still two years to service entry is already a success story...and some hot candidates for the A380 haven't even joined the group yet...British Airways or Cathay Pacific...it's just a matter of time. And since China's aviation market is growing like crazy, we will soon see more orders from that region.
Just look at Shanghai and how many airlines have increased capacity and frequencies to that city...has anybody thought three years ago that Dubai-Shanghai might become an almost certain A380 route? Or five years ago? And some people want to call the A380 a mistake two years ahead of service entry? Seems not very professional to me...

Oh, and if managers of profitable and all time successful airlines such as Singapore Als, Virgin Atlantic, Emirates or Qantas are aviation geeks because they decided for the A380...well, then some carriers like Delta or US Airways should soon try to get one of the geeks, because those obviously know how to run a profitable airline...  Laugh out loud


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2107 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11413 times:

And this weeks crazy prize goes to Harry. Why do they have to continue this stupidity, when all you have to do is look at the order books of both aircraft. Hey stupid folks at Airbus and Boeing, while you enter these slanging matches you are questioning your customers decision making. Now who is making the mistakes!

User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11340 times:

Yeah, 52 firm orders in 5 months in this economy is not bad along with 14 orders whose contracts are to be signed soon and with strong interest from other airlines along with the rumored orders from China and NW. I think Boeing and Stonecipher has every reason to be confident in the 7E7.

He can be as confident as he wants. But considering the 7E7's supposedly the Messiah of aviation that everyone should desperately want and not a niche craft like the 380, he's in no position to make such statements.


User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11264 times:

I am a huge Boeing fan, but I believe the A-380 is an important aircraft that should succeed as a niche aircraft. I earnestly hope that it does succeed, since Airbus will always push my beloved Boeing to look for new and important improvements. The competition is what helps to keep the price of aircraft down, and technology moving forward. In short we ALL benefit from this delighfull competition.

That being said, both aircraft will be very successful, but since Boeing does not have the $ to spend to develop a 4 engine version of the 7e7 with two decks, we will all have to wait and see what develops.

Did anyone seriously expect him to say "I recommend everyone buy ten?" Do we think that Abus will say "You know, the 7e7 IS better than our A-330, so I recommend that you buy that instead?"



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11222 times:

"Lets not turn this into an A vs B war"

It was an A vs B war from the second that the thread started:

"Giant Airbus Is A Giant Mistake, Says Boeing ... I think he's right, IMO."

Now this is just asking to start an A vs. B war.


User currently offlineNWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

The A380 will fullfill it's purpose while the 7E7 will fullfill it's purpose. They are actually BOTH needed and they are BOTH important a/c. Robert NWDC10

User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11114 times:

Some people have just never looked beyond their usual uncongested Austin-San Antonio jungle jet runs...so how should they know that big airlines in the big world out there need larger aircraft than those used in upper Texas?

I'm not personally a big fan of the A380, but I think you hit it here. Despite the fact that Boeing sells aircraft worldwide, and despite the fact that they're obviously continuously doing market research, they're still an American company and they seem to occasionally have an obvious bias towards the American market. They don't seem to quite grasp the concept of large international cities with slot-limited airports that only have one or two runways.

I think Boeing's probably right in that Airbus won't make back its investment on the A380. But who cares? France can just throw the company some more cash to make up for the loss. The fact is it's taking orders away from Boeing, and Boeing actually needs to pay its own way with the business it generates.

On some routes, only the largest aircraft available will work. The rest of the world doesn't always desire (or can't even support) our concept of increased service frequency in smaller airplanes.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineKim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11053 times:

I only had to read 2 posts to see where this was going.

1. The American puts up a post about a Boeing executive saying the A380 is a mistake, and 2. the European counters it by saying that orders for the plane are strong.

Interesting that when "asked what Boeing would do if the A380 turns out to be a success, he said: "Then we will also build a large airplane - and faster than you can say 'Airbus'."

How could they role out a product that fast, unless they already have something on the drawing board just in case.

I frankly think the A380 is not a mistake, but it is still a niche aircraft that doesn't warrant TWO aviation giants spending billions in development costs to fight over a relatively small market. That would be like the DC10 and Lockheed TriStar all over again. Great planes both, but really only room enough for one.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

I rest my case on this article  Insane

Micke/SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10918 times:

I think the A380 has the ability to better than the 130 or so orders. The economy will inevitably get better and when that does skyway congestion will supplant any desires to increase flight frequencies. High capacity airliners will be needed by many airlines once the world economy turns around.

The efficiency of the Boeing 787 (or 808) will be also a great asset in the future and allow the airlines' bottom line to be reached in style. I expect at least triple the initial order amount within the next decade.

Why bicker over two different aircraft from two different companies designed for two different niches? The respective manufacturers know where they are headed with their respective designs.




"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10888 times:

I agree with the previous poster who said Americans should travel outside of Dallas to San Antonio (I was going to say "Dallas to Atlanta on an MD80"); the A380 is desperately needed. If the British Airports Authority (BAA plc) say that 1 in 8 (or was it 1 in 6) movements in 2010 at Heathrow will be an A380, in what way could the aircraft be considered a "giant mistake"?! What does he think all the big longhaul airlines of the world should use to replace their 747-400s? New, identical 747-400s? Or an up to date, larger, more efficient design? The only mistake here is Boeing's, who have not bothered to update their product line and expect airlines to reorder 737s and 747s for generations to come, as though it was still 1975. Well, technology moves forward whether you like it or not, and if you can't embrace it and sell it to your customers, they will find it elsewhere.

Please, my American friends, don't mistake this for a US-bashing, Boeing-bashing post. I love America and I especially love Boeing, and that goes for all Europeans on here - we all had our first flights on Boeings. So when we're critical of Boeing, it's cos it hurts to see our best mate lose the plot, not cos we want to see them dead or anything. Stonecipher needs to wake up and smell the coffee, and look at Boeing's rapidly shrinking product line, instead of claiming the 7E7 is the biggest success story of all time (52 orders!) while the 747, 757 and 767 slink off into the sunset.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10867 times:

"Boeing was not competing with another company, but actually with three European governments"

Boeing was not competing. Period! Instead, they were busy making profits with their cash cows and stopped creating airplanes for a while.


25 N766UA : I love how Airbus describes the 7E7 as looking "like an A330 with a sexy paintjob." Last I checked, the 7E7 looks absolutly nothing like the A330 save
26 AirframeAS : ...strong interest from other airlines along with the rumored orders from China and NW. According to Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine, it lis
27 JeffDCA : Airbus and Boeing are being as bad as each other in this regard. Look at Boeing, they say this yet there is cleary a demand for such an airliner as ai
28 Magiccarpet : I am totally sold to the idea fuel consumption savings on the 7E7 from NIL customer bleed and the concept of pylon change is brilliant; especially for
29 BoeingBus : The A380 is needed and it will ultimately be a success but why should Boeing invest in this segment for so few orders? The A380 has sold 130 or so...
30 DrExotica : What is the going price of an A380 and what is the general profit margin for wide-body aircraft? I am curious how many is break even given the $12B A3
31 Rj111 : Stonecipher and Leahy are getting pretty immature these days. "The 7E7 is already the most successful new development of all time." And suddenly the P
32 NIKV69 : He didn't give any examples on how Airbus has made an error. I believe the 380 will cost much more than Airbus is letting on. Oh well time will tell I
33 L-188 : How many of those buys of the current A380 orders where aware that the aircraft was going to be so overweight? I haven't heard anything about those is
34 Propulsion : It is still very early for both aircraft to be prolciamed as either runaway successes or fruitless failures. Two important points need to be consider
35 Brons2 : Some people have just never looked beyond their usual uncongested Austin-San Antonio jungle jet runs...so how should they know that big airlines in th
36 N754pr : Boeing are a funny lot 717... failed 736... failed 753... failed 764... failed 744ER failed Any they are talking about the A380........ mostly because
37 N79969 : Airbus and Boeing make self-serving remarks about the each others planes all the time. Nothing new. I think Leahy is the most egregious offender of th
38 Post contains images Propulsion : N754PR: I think you appear a little confused. You incorrectly claim all the listed Boeing models to be failures and yet set the benchmark for condemn
39 Ny-jfk-lga : Was the 747 a mistake then?
40 Dan2002 : 754PR I wouldnt call the 717 a failure , with 167 orders. And most of those aircrat have over 150 orders, which is more than the A380, which by your l
41 CX flyboy : Dan, I would hardly say that many of those aircraft you mentioned are failures. Many of the -100 series made by Airbus as only preludes to upgraded ve
42 Post contains images Starlionblue : Stonecipher and Leahy are getting pretty immature these days. "The 7E7 is already the most successful new development of all time." And suddenly the P
43 N754pr : Its not even worth trying when so many here are either American or Boeing fans.... OK, Airbus are a failure, their planes don't sell, they sell them u
44 Lufthansa : Okay folks, lets do a little bit of basic maths. Here is the problem for Boeing. It's 7e7 may use a lot more fuel, but does it save enough to justify
45 Pacific : Negative marketing is just sad. B bashes A, A bashes B, vice versa but it is one sad part of "free market". What do those comments do? Nothing product
46 Flyibaby : One thing I think Boeing has an advantage on the A380 with right now is airports. I read alot of people arguing the advantage of flying this huge jet
47 N317AS : Here's a surprise. As a 20+ year Boeing employee, I hope the 7E7 and the A380 are succesful. Competition is good. I am about as sick of the A vs B cra
48 AirframeAS : C'mon you guys....get real!! Neither plane has taken flight yet so we dont know any specifics about performance at all. WE DONT KNOW YET!!! Lets wait
49 MAS A330 : Cant they just do their own thing, and not verbally abuse each other?
50 Post contains images Soaringadi : ***"Then we will also build a large airplane - and faster than you can say 'Airbus'."*** like the way he sid it.... lol
51 Post contains images AvObserver : It amazes me that anyone here gets bent out of shape by the marketing ballyhoo both Stonecipher and Leahy throw at each other. It amounts to little mo
52 A319114 : I find it funny that Air France has mostly Boeing aircraft in it's fleet when Airbus is a French based company. In my opinion that is a slap to the fa
53 Flyibaby : AvObserver, well said...you've won my respect with that!
54 N79969 : "Its not even worth trying when so many here are either American or Boeing fans.... OK, Airbus are a failure, their planes don't sell, they sell them
55 Starlionblue : One thing I think Boeing has an advantage on the A380 with right now is airports. I read alot of people arguing the advantage of flying this huge jet
56 Post contains images Sky0000547 : I personally will never fly on an A380, but not because it's Airbus, just because I don't want to be trapped with 600 of my not so close friends. I ca
57 FJWH : Here on Airliners.NET you can't say Boeing&Airbus in one thread or there's a flame fest! But N754pr, we had a lot of threads about the 764 that it did
58 Angelairways : We've heard this all before. All I have to say is that the strategy of attacking your competitor and spending more energy and resources on negative PR
59 A319114 : Angelairways is partly right. A few weeks ago (in believe somewhere late July) there was an article on the fierce competition between Boeing and Airbu
60 Post contains images Udo : EazyE90210, before you post total trash, better get informed first. Air France currently operates 164 Airbus aircraft, with only 89 Boeings. And 89 is
61 Na : On the original topic: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....................................
62 Starlionblue : I find it funny that Air France has mostly Boeing aircraft in it's fleet when Airbus is a French based company. In my opinion that is a slap to the fa
63 Sebolino : I really think the problem is not if you like Airbus or not, if the plane is ugly or not, and if the 7E7 is the best or not. The problem is that China
64 Ktachiya : Well ok........ How in the world can Boeing refer to the A380 as a mistake? This is crazy........ Well boeing is the one who lost customers to airbus,
65 NoUFO : Do we really need to discuss what Mr. Big Mouth at Boeing or Monsieur Bramarbas at Airbus say?
66 Post contains images Alasdaironeil : Whatever Boeing, lets wait and see. These companies should be focusing on their own developments rather than critisising each others. You never hear A
67 Post contains images Glideslope : "They will never recover the 12 billion in development costs." This is exactly the problem in today's market. If Airbus was required to operate like
68 Maddy : It´s funny that Boeing first wanted to join Airbus in developing the A380 and now they say there is no market.
69 Rj111 : They will never recover the 12 billion in development costs. This is exactly the problem in today's market. If Airbus was required to operate like any
70 Na : "Giant Airbus Is A Giant Mistake, Says Boeing". Time will tell. One thing is for certain: The Giant Airbus Is A Giant Blow in the face of Boeing. Ston
71 Danny : "This is exactly the problem in today's market. If Airbus was required to operate like any other Private Company in the world they would be out of bus
72 Sebolino : Glideslope, You wrote a lot of crap today. First, Airbus is profitable so your statement is ridiculous. Second I don't know a country in the UE where
73 Gary2880 : "Boeing chief executive Harry Stonecipher said he believes European competitors Airbus has made a mistake in deciding to build the giant A380 plane, b
74 Post contains images Andreas : Glideslope: We will see how happy things are when the former East Germany really starts to melt down. It aint too far away people. I've never read suc
75 Alessandro : Hold your horses, neither A380 nor B7E7 flies yet, so it´s hard to say if they´re a success story or not!
76 NIKV69 : So true, even though I think the 380 will be a nightmare to operate I think we should wait till it's maiden flight before we judge.
77 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Giant Aircraft a giant mistake...well, I have my views on the "superjumbo" but lets look at the comments in context... What did McDonnell Douglas say
78 MD80Nut : What amazes me is that the A380 has yet to fly, but we already have people saying what a mistake it is! Having been in my teens and already an aviatio
79 GMUAirbusA320 : This being said as the orders keep coming in for Airbus...and NOT for Boeing. It's a mentality like that which is why Boeing is dying. They think thei
80 Leskova : GMUAirbusA320: It's a mentality like that which is why Boeing is dying Well, I wouldn't go quite that far - Boeing, to me, doesn't seem like a patient
81 Post contains images N317AS : Sky, You are correct with the upper and lower deck comment. But with me I am still trapped in a tin can with 600 people I don't know and probably don'
82 Vanguard737 : It is always amazing to me how we self proclaimed "adults" and aviation enthusiasts can act so petty and so childish so fast. Last I remembered, aviat
83 Areopagus : Funny. As I read that article, I got a different emphasis than everyone else seems to have done. Of course Stonecipher is going to reiterate the criti
84 Learjet23 : As someone who knows everything about everything...I can tell you this big air slug will fall on its fat ass! Too slow, too heavy, as usuial it's owne
85 Ken777 : Both A & B invest in new aircraft based on their projections for the future. But the future can be quite different. Look at B with the Sonic Cruise, f
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