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LCC Overbookings; US & Europe  
User currently offlineTedstriker From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 16 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

I saw "Airport USA" last night for the first time (for UK members ITV2 is showing it). I was surprised to see on it that Southwest overbook their flights. Is this common for US lcc's?

Please correct me if I am wrong (and I'm sure you will!) but the likes of Ryanair & Easyjet do not overbook their flights here in Europe. I always thought thatEasyjet etc based their business model on Southwest.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

JetBlue doesnt overbook flights, ever. I dont think Independance Air does either.

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

As FA4B6 said, JetBlue does not overbook their flight and yet maintain their high load factor. I've always appreciated that when flying B6 although I'm sure they could make some extra money if they overbooked.......But it probably just isn't worth the hassle and angering customers over it.

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

ALL airlines overbook. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill up the a/c to the levels they need to make a profit. Southwest in the US does some severe overbooking on some routes due to high rates of no-shows as depicted in the program you saw (which I believe is on our A&E cable/satallite network as Airline). Sometimes, the computers' fudge it up too, allowing excessive overbooking. The level of overbooking would depend on the date, time of year, if equipment, flight times or flight frequency changes, if mainly a business or casual/tourist route and other factors. Some airlines may allow lower numbers of overbookings due to developed history, marketing decisions, and with LLC's perhaps lower rates of no-shows and that cannot shift pax to other airlines. In Europe, there may be national and EC regulations on overbooking that we don't have in the USA. Also, LCC's there may have lower rates of no-shows, therefore must limit the rates of overbookings.

User currently offline1millionflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2266 times:


Independence Air and Jet Blue both will not overbook for any reason.

I was standing by on an America West flight a while back 757 BOS-LAS and it was booked to 216 out of 190 seats. I got on the plane as 27 people did not show up. LAS flights are notorious for no shows!


User currently offlineGlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

The worst I ever had was a KLM 747 between Aruba and AMS. I was working the flight that day and I nearly had an heart attack when I opened the DCS and saw that the flight was overbooked by 240 pax.
That was a day to remember. Thanks to other airlines such as Aeropostal, DL and CO we got pax rerouted through IAH, EWR, JFK and CCS. They weren't happy campers, I can tell you.

GlobeTrekker



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

European Low Cost carriers do not generally overbook. They do keep the money and the taxes for no-shows, though.

However, now that they allow changes to bookings, they might also change their policy on overbooking (pure speculation on my behalf).

I believe there was talk about an EU regulation that would compensate any passenger denied boarding due to overbooking quite heavily. Not sure what became of that.

Regards

Ikarus


User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

ALL airlines overbook. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to fill up the a/c to the levels they need to make a profit. Southwest in the US does some severe overbooking on some routes due to high rates of no-shows as depicted in the program you saw (which I believe is on our A&E cable/satallite network as Airline). Sometimes, the computers' fudge it up too, allowing excessive overbooking. The level of overbooking would depend on the date, time of year, if equipment, flight times or flight frequency changes, if mainly a business or casual/tourist route and other factors. Some airlines may allow lower numbers of overbookings due to developed history, marketing decisions, and with LLC's perhaps lower rates of no-shows and that cannot shift pax to other airlines. In Europe, there may be national and EC regulations on overbooking that we don't have in the USA. Also, LCC's there may have lower rates of no-shows, therefore must limit the rates of overbookings.

Actually, no, JetBlue does not overbook flights, ever. We have 156 seats, we sell 156 seats. There are only two situations that would allow for pax to be removed (and hence would create an "overbooking-like situation"):

1. If a wheelchair pax insists on stowing their wheelchair on board the a/c and makes that decision after booking their travel (this must be done in Row 26 D-E-F and therefore if the flight is full, 3 pax need to be removed from the flight), then three pax must be removed from the flight. That's why on every B6 flight, 26 D-E-F are blocked and can only be assigned at the airport. But sometimes, things happen last minute as we all know.

2. If Federal Air Marshals all of a sudden show up last minute to a flight that they are not scheduled on, they have the right to work that flight and if the flight is booked then 2 pax must be removed.

Other then that, jetBlue has never and will never overbook a flight. Ever.

Anyone know what Independence's policy is?



User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

I am glad to see JetBlue doesn't intentionally overbook. As I noted in my post, some LCC's may have a lower no-show rate than other airlines, including LCC's and as a marketing policy for their customers, not overbooking prevents a lot of problems for LCC's since they just can't transfer pax to other airline's flights. This is probably true for JetBlue and is an unusual policy. It probably expains their excellent reputation in such a short time.

User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

IndyAir will not over book flights . . . More like they can't overbook flights!!!
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

IndyAir will not over book flights . . . More like they can't overbook flights!!!

tsk tsk! At least they don't practice this policy.

In theory it seems like a good idea, but in practice it creates a lot of angry people (me having been one of them twice). Its disruptive and should be practiced minimally.


User currently offlineEugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 15 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Overbooking is more like to take place with legacy travellers with high yield business travellers. If they can get extra bookings from high yield travellers and ask for volunteers to take a different flight then have maximized revenue. The people who choose or are compelled to take different flights will be put on flights were there will be extra capacity so there is no loss in revenue on that flight

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (10 years 14 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

I dont think Independance Air does either.

Haha, they dont have to because they cant even fill up half of their planes.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineOrd777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 14 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

I'm not saying that I agree with the practice of overbooking, but I do understand why airlines do it. Depending on the airline, they can gain 15 additional passengers system wide for every individual that must be rebooked due to overbooking. The revenue from these 15 additional individuals far exceeds the cost of rebooking and providing vouchers to the bumped customer. Airlines will admit that overbooking can tarnish thier reputation in the eyes' of customers, but it's really just a matter of numbers. I applaud those airlines that value their customers time over their money.

User currently offlineMoose1226 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 13 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

Burnsie28,

What did you expect after three and a half months? Every flight full? Keep dreaming and give them some time.


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

>>>Also, LCC's there may have lower rates of no-shows, therefore must limit the rates of overbookings.

European no frills airlines have very high no-show rates, because people book 19 EUR tickets half a year before flying. In the end, if their plans change, it´s just cheap enough to say "oh, to hell with them couple of bucks..."

Take me as an example, I was a no-show just once, CGN-CDG-CDG which had cost me 28.50 EUR including all taxes.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Burnsie28,

What did you expect after three and a half months? Every flight full? Keep dreaming and give them some time.


No but not a SYSTEMWIDE load factor of what 47% in the strongest month of the year. Did jetBlue have that low, NO, Spirits, NO, and both of those fly planes with 100+ seats.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
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