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US Airways Union Negotiations Strike A Deal.  
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
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24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3753 times:
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The TWU deal wont mean a whole lot. US needs ALPA to give in, and ALPA will continue to tell them to go to hell. US is just delaying the inevitable chapter 7 filing.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

The TWU is US Airways' smallest union and only represents a handful of dispatchers and simulator engineers. US Airways is mainly focused on the larger unions: pilots, flight attendants, machinists, and customer service workers.


N670UW


User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

Any little bit will help. ALPA will do their usual crap and hold out till the last minuet. What I don't understand is that some of these union bozo's think it's better to not have a job then have one thats a little lower paying. I hope the judge busts all the unions and all the silly rules that they have and then US can get a more simple work rule in place and have the workers be more productive. I have seen it on a daily basis how lazy some of these union boys at US can be. They refuse to help other workers when asked because "it's not in their job description"....Come on you are all there to do one thing, thats to make sure people and their bags get safetly from point A to point B. It's time that all of them see the big picture.

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

To clarify, TWU Local 547, being discussed here, represents the Flight Crew Training Instructors.

TWU Local 545, which earlier reached an agreement, represents the Dispatchers.

TWU Local 546, which represents the Simulator Engineers, has yet to reach an agreement.

[Edited 2004-09-26 22:33:02]


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

I dont think ALPA will give in, what US wants is seemingly almost like paying them minimum wage. ALPA also knows, even with those cuts, they are not likely to survive anyway, so why take a pay cut when your going under most likely anyway, this time, ALPA holding out is smarter.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

US Airways and TWU Flight Crew Training Instructors Reach Tentative Agreement on Cost Savings

ARLINGTON, Va., Sept. 26 -- US Airways and the Transport Workers Union (TWU) Local 547, representing approximately 65 Flight Crew Training Instructors, have reached a tentative agreement on a new contract to reduce costs in support of the company's Transformation Plan to become a low-cost carrier.

Details of the agreement have not been disclosed pending the TWU's communication of the agreement to its members.

"Our members recognize the need to implement meaningful efficiency gains and other cost-saving steps in order to keep US Airways alive and well. While these actions are very difficult for us, we recognize that our livelihood depends on the successful restructuring of this airline," said Bill Gray, president of TWU Local 547. "Our employees have too much time and effort invested in this fine company to just stand by and watch it fade into the annals of aviation history."

"The leadership of the Flight Crew Training Instructors has made a very important decision on behalf of its members in reaching this agreement to support the company's Transformation Plan," said Jerrold A. Glass, US Airways senior vice president of employee relations. "We fully recognize these sacrifices, and that they bring us one step closer to our goal of becoming a stronger and more competitive force in the industry."

Ratification of this agreement is expected to be completed within two weeks and requires approval by the bankruptcy court.

Meetings with the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA), the Communications Workers of America (CWA), the International Association of Machinists (IAM) and one other TWU group (Simulator Engineers), continue.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

As for ALPA, they've removed the (ridiculous) restrictions on the Negotiating Committee. The RC4 did not stop that from happening. (The RC4 put them there in the first place, which basically prevented any negotiations from taking place.)

Also, the ringleader of the RC4, Fred Freshwater, just announced yesterday that he will not be running for reelection to the US Airways ALPA MEC. I guess he's had his fun, ruining hundreds of lives, and now doesn't want to be bothered cleaning up his mess. Or maybe he doesn't think he could get reelected. No, that couldn't be it...after all, he represents a majority of the pilots...he says so himself.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 3629 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

I dont think ALPA will give in, what US wants is seemingly almost like paying them minimum wage. ALPA also knows, even with those cuts, they are not likely to survive anyway, so why take a pay cut when your going under most likely anyway, this time, ALPA holding out is smarter.

I'm not really up on this whole thing as much as some people, but how is it smarter to hold out? If, as you suggest, ALPA knows the airline is going down either way, wouldn't it make more sense for pilots to continue working as they look for other jobs, rather than being out on their butts and trying to eke out a living on unemployment?

I would think, if ALPA knew the airline was going down either way, that they'd want to prolong the death as much as possible in their own self-interest. Get their people as many jobs at other airlines as possible in the meantime. If the airline does go under, the remaining union workers will still get their unemployment, but they'll have had six more months or whatever to look for another job that they otherwise wouldn't have had.

The only reason I could see ALPA holding out would be if they still don't seriously think that their wages are the main problem. Or, if they really believe they're being treated unfairly (I'm not anti-worker at all; I know what it's like to be very poorly treated even at a well-paying job, and how angry it can make you), and they just don't want to give in on principle. But I can't see how it's objectively smart for them to hold out if they know the airline will liquidate either way.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

In a related story, USAirways is claiming that they will be liquidated by February without the ALPA concessions. Earlier this year I had put the over/under of US ceasing operations at Dec. 31, so I wasn't too far off (and may yet be right).

In case you're interested, the link is:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04270/385706.stm

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

The next couple weeks will tell the story on what will happen. With the 1113e filing, US Airways will likely gain a 23% immediate decrease in all salaries that will give them some breathing room. The next step is the filing of a 1113c letter which opens the windows on so many new things. The biggest part of that will be the "Furlough out of Seniority" clause. If this gets passed, US Airways management will quickly and significantly reduce the number 15+ year verterans at the airline and bring back all the youngsters on furlough now.

If this gets passed by the court, it will essentially kill the union hold on the airline industry as United and Delta will likely be the first to exploit it. US Airways may not survive any of this...but what goes on in this case will certain mold the industry as a whole going forward.


User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3360 times:

If they furlough out of seniority, I hope those employees whose seniority is violated get a bad case of the blue flu. Furloughing out of seniority may look good on paper. But they will be opening up a can of worms if they do it.

User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3330 times:

The question should be: Are the steps USAir is taking in Ch. 11(Part. II) going to be enough to compete in their arena?

If not, the employees should not give one dime. I'll tell you why. I see this as a last-ditch effort on Bronner's part to salvage his investment and keep the Alabama teachers from stringing him up in the nearest tree.

The EAL employees burned the airline down to keep Lorenzo from completeing his raping and pilaging of their company. He got so much egg on his face from that event it was the beginning of the end for his airline days.

Time and time again we've seen drama such as this with no viable plan to operate the airline. USAir should be held to the highest standard(just as UAL should) before being given concessions by the employees.TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

One way to avoid furloughing out of seniority would be for pilots to be paid the same rate for the same job... regardless of seniority. This is how things function in the real world... get paid for what you do, not for who you are.

Basically all seniority pay is an unnecessary drain. New hires can be had at the starting salary... there is no justification to pay people more, unless you say a 20 year veteran is a better / safer pilot than a 2 year veteran. And there is little or no indication that's the case.

Doctors, lawyers, etc all get paid the same from year 1 to year 30 -- once out of training / apprenticeship.


User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

No indication that a 20 year veteren is a better/safer pilot than a 2 year veteran?

Are you $h!tting me?! In this job, experience is EVERYTHING. Sure, you can get a 2 year pilot type rated on just about any airplane(with enough extra time in the sim). But passing a line check AND surviving on the line is a completely different animal.

I assure you a doctor and lawyer's W-2's are vastly different at the end of their career than at the start. That's why the old docs and lawyers live in the really BIG houses... Insane TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

If the unions do anything, such as a job action in reaction to a F.O.S., then Bronner has a couple options.

1) Liquidate the airline and get some cash back.

2) Liquidate the airline and let it go as a write off.

His total investment in U is only around 1 percent of his total fund's value. He doesn't care one way or the other.

Unfortunately the day of the diehard unions is numbered as this bankrupcty will likely get very ugly very fast. The only thing union solidarity will do now, is earn 30,000 people a welfare check. Hate to tell ya...the jobs aren't really that plentiful other there for people with similar experience. However...lets be honest. The tech bubble went boom...its time for the airline bubble to do the same. Yes, most are losing money...but there hasn't been a great reduction in capacity.


User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

RE: US Airways Union Negotiations Strike A Deal.
Username: Ouboy79
From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1461 posts, RR: 18
Reply: 15
Posted Mon Sep 27 2004 06:29:59 UTC+1 and read 92 times:
If the unions do anything, such as a job action in reaction to a F.O.S., then Bronner has a couple options.

1) Liquidate the airline and get some cash back.

2) Liquidate the airline and let it go as a write off.

His total investment in U is only around 1 percent of his total fund's value. He doesn't care one way or the other.

Unfortunately the day of the diehard unions is numbered as this bankrupcty will likely get very ugly very fast. The only thing union solidarity will do now, is earn 30,000 people a welfare check. Hate to tell ya...the jobs aren't really that plentiful other there for people with similar experience. However...lets be honest. The tech bubble went boom...its time for the airline bubble to do the same. Yes, most are losing money...but there hasn't been a great reduction in capacity.


I am sorry, but the above author's profile says that he is 21-25 years of age? Where did he get these ideas? From listening to his noveau riche parents preach at home?

Union diehards? Solidarity brings welfare checks?

The pilots at USAirways are not going to agree to work for LCC or Regional carrier wages, and here is the reason why.

1. As has been stated, even with these cuts, their jobs are not secure.

2. While other jobs are not plentiful, the rest of the USAirways employees can find other employment at wage levels similar or higher than the new levels proposed by management.

3. By giving in, all the USAirways pilots will do is lock themselves into low wages for the rest of their careers, which may not be much longer, and again lower the bar for the rest of the industry. What happens next Spring? Should pilots really work for 50% less in real wages than they did 15-20 years ago. (Deregulation is 27 years old). This race to the bottom must stop. If US Airways stops flying, some of these guys will get on elsewhere, just like some did from Eastern, Pan Am, and Braniff. The rest will retire. Don't forget, the majority of US Airways pilots are pretty senior since the previous cuts took out most more junior employees. The pilots gave concessions less than two years ago. Management was not successful. It is better for the industry for USAirways to liquidate, than for their employees to work for AirTran or less wages.


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Miles, what a bunch of ridiculous crap.

US pilots are not the only very special people in the world. In fact, we are all special, nice people. None of us has the special right to rob 30,000 people of their jobs. That behavior is deeply irrational. It makes no sense, ever, and is not honorable, ever!


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Amazing how someone has to start out a post by attempting to blast a 25-year olds statement will poorly thought out attacks...hmm and he's a lawyer - shocker.

Ehhh oh well. Flame away all you want, unfortunately my views are that of my own and not of my hard working middle-class parents.


User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Furloughing out of order = immediate pilot strike (The union will have right to self-help if the contract is no longer valid). Seems like a very foolish move.

User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Also, the ringleader of the RC4, Fred Freshwater, just announced yesterday that he will not be running for reelection to the US Airways ALPA MEC. I guess he's had his fun, ruining hundreds of lives, and now doesn't want to be bothered cleaning up his mess. Or maybe he doesn't think he could get reelected. No, that couldn't be it...after all, he represents a majority of the pilots...he says so himself.

Typical. Blame the entire problem on the unions. While they no doubt contributed, let's look at the common denominator with the two US majors in bankruptcy right now...STEVEN WOLFE! Now could that be mere coincidence??? I doubt it.

I can understand the union's mindset. At what point do you throw your hands up and just say "ENOUGH"!? Obviously, some (most?) of the people at US Airways have reached that point.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

To clear up some misconceptions and questions about the out-of-seniority furloughs: US is proposing to furlough by fleet type, not willy-nilly, and not just the most senior employees (in fact, the rumors involve eliminating the 737/767 fleets, involving a mix of junior/senior employees--the out-of-seniority furloughs would be to reduce training costs, not wages); there is already precedent for out-of-seniority furloughs by fleet type in other ALPA contracts; the 1113(e) motion does NOT provide for out-of-seniority furloughs; in the event of a successful 1113(c) motion which provides for out-of-seniority furloughs (or which ALPA doesn't like for any other reason), I believe the judge can order ALPA to not strike; US is already seeking as part of the 1113(e) motion relief (in the form of a higher monthly block hour pay cap) in the event of an illegal work slowdown; lastly, I believe that US is willing to negotiate away the out-of-seniority furloughs, likely for 90-seat scope relief.

Also, the ringleader of the RC4, Fred Freshwater, just announced yesterday that he will not be running for reelection to the US Airways ALPA MEC. I guess he's had his fun, ruining hundreds of lives, and now doesn't want to be bothered cleaning up his mess. Or maybe he doesn't think he could get reelected. No, that couldn't be it...after all, he represents a majority of the pilots...he says so himself.

Typical. Blame the entire problem on the unions. While they no doubt contributed, let's look at the common denominator with the two US majors in bankruptcy right now...STEVEN WOLFE! Now could that be mere coincidence??? I doubt it.

I can understand the union's mindset. At what point do you throw your hands up and just say "ENOUGH"!? Obviously, some (most?) of the people at US Airways have reached that point.


Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not blaming the problem on the unions. Not at all.

The only blame I lay is on 4 pilots. I blame them for costing their group a significantly better deal.

It also appears that there will be a recall initiated of the 2 PHL reps at the next Local meeting. But again, I'm sure they have nothing to worry about, as they claim to represent a majority of the pilots.  Insane



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

US AIRWAYS FLIGHT CREW TRAINING INSTRUCTORS RATIFY COST-SAVINGS AGREEMENT

ARLINGTON, Va., Oct. 5, 2004 -- US Airways’ flight crew training instructors, represented by Transport Workers Union (TWU) Local 547, today ratified a new cost-savings agreement with a 94 percent vote in favor. The new $1.6 million per year cost-savings agreement becomes effective on Oct. 1, 2004, pending approval by the bankruptcy court.

"This once again demonstrates the commitment of the members of Local 547 in seeing that US Airways can compete effectively in the marketplace," said Bill Gray, president of TWU Local 547.

"This ratification makes it quite clear that our flight crew training instructors share the company’s drive for success and we thank them for this quick decision," said Jerrold A. Glass, US Airways senior vice president of employee relations.

In addition to the flight crew training instructors ratifying this cost-savings agreement, last week the TWU dispatchers ratified their agreement. The TWU simulator engineers have reached a tentative agreement with the company and are undergoing its ratification process. Additionally, the Air Line Pilots Association last week reached a tentative agreement requiring approval by its Master Executive Council (MEC). ALPA’s MEC is meeting in Pittsburgh today. US Airways continues negotiations this week with the Association of Flight Attendants and Communications Workers of America. Talks with the International Association of Machinists also are scheduled to resume today.

Reporters needing additional information should contact US Airways Corporate Affairs at (703) 872-5100.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2588 times:
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Maybe I missed it in another thread, but it appears that ALPA has struck a deal with US as well:

http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4603

US Airways, pilots reach agreement on $300 million in savings
Dateline: Monday October 04, 2004

Bankrupt US Airways and its pilots reached a tentative agreement last week that will save the company $300 million annually.

The accord came about a week after the airline filed a motion with the US Bankruptcy Court seeking to impose temporary pay and benefit reductions on most of its unionized workers. JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker, in a report released Friday, said the agreement will result in a 17.4% cut in pilot pay, establishing "senior captain A320 rates 4% below JetBlue and 737 rates 19% below Southwest."
"This is a major step forward for our company, its employees, customers and all other stakeholders," US Airways President and CEO Bruce Lakefield said. "Ratification by ALPA's members is essential to our transformation and would demonstrate their continuing commitment to making our airline stronger and more competitive."

Prior to filing for Chapter 11 protection for the second time in two years, the carrier said it needed to cut $1.5 billion in annual expenses in order to implement its transformation plan, $800 million of which would come from labor. At the time, it said it needed roughly $295 million from its pilots. However, according to media reports, it said in a recent bankruptcy filing that it now is seeking $950 million in annual labor savings.

Terms of the deal were not released and the Air Line Pilots Assn., which represents the pilots, said it planned to meet Friday afternoon to decide whether to send the contract to members for a ratification vote.

US Airways has been negotiating with all of its unions recently and has been able to reach tentative agreements with some of its smaller labor groups. One of those groups, its flight dispatchers, ratified their new deal Friday. But despite ongoing negotiations, the carrier has been unable to lock down new deals with three of its major unions: The Assn. of Flight Attendants, Communications Workers of America and International Assn. of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.--LF



Now if they STILL can't make money after these cuts....  Insane



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Maybe I missed it in another thread, but it appears that ALPA has struck a deal with US as well:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1761662/4/



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
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