Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AC Orders New RJs  
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Strange news on Radio-Canada (http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Economie/nouvelles/200409/27/001-AIRCANADA.shtml). AC is buying some new RJs.

15 CRJ-700 and 30 CRJ-200. 15 orders can be cancelled without any penalty for AC.

The news doesn't say where that deal stands vis-à-vis the last CRJs order.

Stay tuned.


Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Why didn't I think of that first ???

Here's the link to Bombardier's press release
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=3_0&lang=en&file=/en/3_0/pressrelease.jsp%3Fgroup%3D3_0%26lan%3Den%26action%3Dview%26id%3D2652%26sCateg%3D3_0.




Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineMartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

This contract has a potential value of approximately $2.45 billion US.

Goodbye Air Canada!!

If this deal goes through, ctheir chance of bankruptcy will be near 100%  Laugh out loud , I'll laugh my butt off if it causes them to die. This shows how stupid management can be, just my opinion though!  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud



Chelsea Football Club supporter.
User currently offlineBigD From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4958 times:

Does anyone have any idea what routes some of these jets will be used on? I'm especially keen to know what routes the 705's would be used on. The seat pitch in these planes is excellent for economy class.

BigD


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

There is no indication of the 705 routes, but the seat pitch - and the fact these are destined to be two-class cabins with an in-seat video system - is a pretty good indication that they might see service on so-called longer thin routes, like an Ottawa-Winnipeg or London (ON) - Calgary. A good bet also are the longer intra-West routes where AC is putting CRJ-100/200s for the winter. Much longer than that seems unlikely as AC has the Embraers in the fleet plan for the mainline, and those are probably better plans for any flying over three hours.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

MartinairYYZ.

Thank you for your analysis. Perhaps you should take over Air Canada and teach them how its done..  Insane


User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

This is all part of the original announcent from Dec. 2003. It is all part of the business plan that was agreed to by the creditor's, nothing new.

CA


User currently offlineCYLW From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

Does anyone know if new CRJ200s are equipped with leading edge devices and a lower cabin floor for better visibility out the windows like the CRJ700s??



User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

50 seat regionals are a dying breed....BBD has already said that the modifications to the 700/900 will not be retroffited in the CRJ200 series.....too expensive (you would have thought they would make it cheaper, right?).

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

50 seat regionals are a dying breed....

The production lines at Bombardier and Embraer would suggest otherwise.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

No, not really...their CASM is ridiculously high. The love affair with the 50-seat jet is past maturity and will die relatively quickly. Otherwise, there replacements would have already been in development instead of 70 seaters and above (and note that the 70 seaters are not moving at the brisk pace most analyst and manufactures initially thought).

I'm glad BBD made the sale...if for the only reason it will strengthen their ability to get the C-Series launched.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

No one seems to have picked up that this is a Jazz order...which makes it far more important then any Air Canada order, as it means they have reached an agreement with ACPA allowing Jazz to expand it's jet operation, and operate larger 70+ seat jets which untill now it has not been able to do...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4926 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4349 times:

Slawko, as ACCargo says above, this is a previous order made "public" again ... and is no more nor less, than allowed in the Teplitski jet arbitration bewteen Air Canada, and Air Canada Jazz.

The CRJ 200s are allowed into Jazz, on a one-for-one, as the EMBs are delivered to Air Canada. The CRJ705s will replace the BAe142s, again, on a one-for-one basis.

I am a little bewildered why this is made to appear as "news".



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

I am a little bewildered why this is made to appear as "news".

I agree. This order was announced months ago. It is not news.

No, not really...their CASM is ridiculously high. The love affair with the 50-seat jet is past maturity and will die relatively quickly.

Yes, the CASM is high, yet the order books remain robust.

note that the 70 seaters are not moving at the brisk pace most analyst and manufactures initially thought

True. One signif factor thought is that the 70-seat threshold bumps up against alot of scope clauses.

The CRJ 200s are allowed into Jazz, on a one-for-one, as the EMBs are delivered to Air Canada.

Are you saying that the new CJR-200 will be operated by AC? As opposed to Jazz?

The CRJ705s will replace the BAe142s, again, on a one-for-one basis.


Hopefully this means the 146 will remain with Jazz until 2005.










Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4926 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

The 146 will remain until the CRJ 705s are delivered, and will replace them on a one-for-one basis, and will be operated by Jazz.

Jazz, as you know, presently operates 50 seat CRJs. They will be allowed more CRJ200s, as long as Air Canada mainline gets the EMB 175s and 190s. The way the Teplitski arbitration reads, is that the 50 seat RJs can be added to the Jazz fleet, only at (roughly) the same time and rate as the arrival of the EMBs at Air Canada mainline.

But also, as you know, Air Canada is notorious for backing out of signed employee contracts. It is my opinion, (and only my opinion), the EMBs will never arrive at either Jazz or Air Canada. Once the increase in CRJs at Jazz occurs, Air Canada will "suddenly" decide against the EMBs.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinePacificWestern From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3961 times:

I look forward to a 3 hour flight on a CRJ-200 to Toronto. NOT!!!!!!

User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Actually as I understand it, 146s will be out of our fleet by DEC, Jan at the latest, first 705s are not due till mid/late spring.

User currently offlineMartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3838 times:

Thank you for your analysis. Perhaps you should take over Air Canada and teach them how its done..

Why not! Lower frequency on flights not so in-demand (only keep high-load times) and put the others jets on new routes! Did I have to be such a genius? It may not be perfect but it'll be better than what they have now, FLYYUL  Insane

 Laugh out loud



Chelsea Football Club supporter.
User currently offlineNW7E7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 533 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

If AC goes bye-bye there will be a huge void to fill in the Canadian market. Who would possibly fill it?

NW7E7


User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

Market watchers predict the AC will come out bigger and stronger than ever. VEry good for my division of the company (Jazz)....definitely alot different than what the teenage know it alls have to say. Think I'll go with the analysts.

User currently offlineAllee From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

This link http://www.aircanada.ca/about-us/investor/pdf/ac_sr.pdf goes over AC's fleet strategies.

User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3432 times:


But also, as you know, Air Canada is notorious for backing out of signed employee contracts. It is my opinion, (and only my opinion), the EMBs will never arrive at either Jazz or Air Canada. Once the increase in CRJs at Jazz occurs, Air Canada will "suddenly" decide against the EMBs.



That's ridiculous. Typical ACPA logic. And I'm not a pilot. AC has just cut down the CRJ order and management is in love with the EMB-190 and sees it as the ideal aircraft for AC to cut capacity on some routes and build up others. But to you, it's all a malevolant trick on ACPA pilots. Sad, really.





User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2952 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Since Canada isn't the fast growing market or the largest, isn't 30 CRJ200s plus 15 CRJ700s too much. What are they replacing the 737-200s, or returning some of the 320s or 319s. Are they still getting the Embraer 190? When? Are some Dash 8s slated for retirement.

User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

What new domestic and transborder routes will crop up using the CRJ-100/200 and the new CRJ-705s? And which routes may see AC use the EMB-190?

Already, YEG-YWG, YYC-YWG are or will be seeing the CRJ for sure. YWG-YOW and YXU-YYC are possibilities.


User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Since Canada isn't the fast growing market or the largest, isn't 30 CRJ200s plus 15 CRJ700s too much. What are they replacing the 737-200s, or returning some of the 320s or 319s. Are they still getting the Embraer 190? When? Are some Dash 8s slated for retirement.

Some Dash 8-100s are scheduled for retirement. The last three Jazz BAe146s are leaving. Some A320 will be leaving. And all 737-200s are gone. Some of the CRJ200s will replace Dash 8s and 146s, and some will build frequency or launch new domestic or transborder services. The CRJ705 and EMB-175s will replace some CRJ0200s now flown on some very long sectors (2-3 hours). The EMN 190s will do the same, or replace A320s, and they will help launch some new services, particularly transborder routes where an A319 is too large.


25 Yyz717 : No matter how you slice it Sebring, this order will add capacity to the domestic/US market. Looks like AC is still playing its old market share games.
26 WJA73G : And who is going to pay for these??? WJA73G
27 Boac707 : One thing we need to remember is that AC wanted to split off some of its operations and sell them for profit. So why not order a bunch of new aircraft
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AC/CP New Aircraft Orders! posted Fri Jun 23 2000 04:27:20 by Slawko
REUTERS--BAE Systems Orders New Airbus Audit posted Wed Jul 5 2006 18:32:26 by RAPCON
Australia's Virgin Blue Orders 9 New 737 Planes posted Wed May 10 2006 06:50:21 by Leelaw
AC Announces New Fleet Delivery Schedule posted Fri Mar 24 2006 02:21:33 by Ac789
Pegasus Airlines Orders 6 New 737NGs posted Thu Mar 9 2006 16:37:35 by USAF336TFS
Mexican Start-up Vuela Orders New Airbus! posted Thu Dec 8 2005 01:25:57 by Ghost77
AC//E-190 New Routes posted Sun Nov 13 2005 23:21:14 by FLYACYYZ
Kenya Airways Orders New 737-800s! posted Fri Aug 12 2005 21:49:34 by NYC777
AC Announces New Domestic And Transborder Routes posted Thu Jun 2 2005 23:10:13 by Accargo
AC Orders 777 And 787 (Part 2) posted Mon Apr 25 2005 23:12:26 by RootsAir