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Frontier & A Hub Out East  
User currently offlineSunVAlley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

It's my understanding that a major Airport has been discussing with F9
the possibility of creating a mini hub at their airport, as a contingency plan in the event US should liquidate or down size big time. F9 officials have been in
Columbus off & on for about 10 days. ( consultants have been busy giving many airlines all types of detailed reports, airport fees etc in case this event does happen with US)

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Hey, here's a thought...America West tried using CMH as an east-coast, north-south hub, with absolutely no success due to a lack of connectivity to the rest of the network, so Frontier is going to try to use it in the same matter America West did...great idea...NOT!

Please, spare the residents of Columbus, and the students at Ohio State University, the disappointment of watching another useless hub going up in flames...



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

Plenty of airports would love to become a hub/focus for anyone.... but the question of facilities/model/location/cost always come into play.

There are of course any airport where US is a dominant player, no doubt they're considering their options.

MCI, IND, STL may try to attract more domestic hubbing.

MSY, TPA wouldnt be all that great as domestic hubs, but could possibly serve an airline well as Carribean/L.American gateways.


User currently offlineSunVAlley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

I believe Pride Air tried MSY back in the 80's and failed miserably.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3354 times:
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I tend to doubt that this would happen in the foreseeable future, for all sorts of reasons.

(i) crude oil is at $50 a barrel. Frontier warned about the cost of fuel at $35 a barrel.

Even thought they have taken out a good hedge for the next six months, this is obviously going to impact the bottom line - as it does with all the airlines - and Frontier's position is to conserve cash.

(ii) Because of an accident to the 7th A318 at Airbus, Finkenwerder, they are short an aircraft, which is causing problems for the winter schedule. I don't think they have any planes to spare and they run a fairly lean operation with aircraft scheduling as it is.

(iii) they have stated that they are not overly keen on an eastern hub at this time.

The CEO thinks there is a shake out coming in the industry, and they seem to want to lay low while that happens.

(iv) They are changing over to the Sabre system, and for this reason - as well as the above, they hve said "no new cities, no new routes" in Fiscal '05.

Frontier has already had to deny several rumors about new cities, including Montego Bay, Jamaica.

That last one is funny, because it was the CEO who started the rumor about Jamaica some nine months ago.

(v) The Rockford (Chicago) press has convinced itself that Frontier will soon announce service DEN/RFD. Frontier hasn't mentioned it.

So - if something should happen to US Airways, I could see Frontier maybe - maybe - adding a couple of frequencies to PHL, but I'd be suspicious of a new hub.

However - having said all that, the CEO has also said that Frontier must remain "nimble and reactive" - so maybe if the deal was good enough.....

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2277 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

Hey, here's a thought...America West tried using CMH as an east-coast, north-south hub, with absolutely no success due to a lack of connectivity to the rest of the network

SHUPirate1:

The reason(s) behind the failure of America West's Columbus hub was far more complex than that synopsis. I have posted passenger boarding totals for HP's hub operations in CMH before, and I can tell you first hand that connecting traffic was plentiful in Columbus, as well as local traffic. The true reason to their decision to shutter Columbus was a lack of interest in realizing the full potential of the hub; mostly due to the airline's new fare structure and its inability to function in a limited, RJ-heavy operation, coupled with increased pressure from local competitors such as Delta (who, might I add, has taken most of the former HP routes from CMH and is currently operating them successfully).

As far as a possible mini-hub or focus city goes, as far as Columbus is concerned, I have no doubt in my mind that it could work (aircraft delivery problems and fuel costs aside). It is without a doubt that a large-scale hub operation could not function in CMH, that is a given. However, a dedicated operation focused on providing service to high O&D destinations from CMH either not currently served or minimally served from the city is definitely conceivable. In essence, Columbus could handle a similar operation by Frontier to ATA's Indianapolis operations. Flights would be on mainline company metal (not outsourced to a regional affiliate) with aircraft configured in an all coach configuration (HP never had a paying passenger on their first class seats to Florida from CMH), with a premium product at a low fare (also a rarity in CMH).

Granted, this would be contingent on the collapse of USAirways (a scenario I hope does not happen). Also, their would be a host of other possible suitors in addition to Columbus. However, if the situation does become reality, I would think it would be a very good window of opportunity for Frontier to capture a larger presence east of the Mississippi.


User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

And to add to flyCMH. An airline (F9) that did the America West route of a hub in CMH would have to also commit to CMH to western city's without a stop in Denver. Who was going to fly PHL-CMH-LAS/PHX-LAX when you could do it non-stop or one stop. I personally think HP made a half a** effort. If they had used a A319 from CMH non-stop to the west, maybe it would have faired better!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

SHUPirate,

My roommate, who is a huge Buckeye fan, wants me to point out that it should be the students at THE Ohio State University.  Smile Apparantly, you cannot forget the THE in front of it.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

I think that CMH and DEN are in pretty much the same position Geography wise. DEN is a western hub, but not so far west that it is isolated from the east, and provides great connecting opportunities from the west coast. However, DEN is too far west for a person flying from say, MDW to FLL. Major backtrack.

CMH is in the east, but not so far east that it is isolated from the west. CMH would provide great connecting service between places such as MDW-FLL and MDW-LGA, IAD-STL, DCA-MCI, instead of having to go through DEN on those routes which would equal major backtracking.

Unfortunately as Mariner has stated right now F9 is laying low and just keeping their losses to a minimum (and doing a good job at it). When the industry shakeup has finished its course (which unfortunately will probably mean the end of USAirways), F9 will probably again be looking to expand.

That's why I think CMH would make a great hub for F9, but what do I know, I'm just a Freshman Theatre Major  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineSunVAlley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

DLKAPA, I agree with your conclusion about CMH and the convenience of it's location. I also know that equipment shortages have never stopped other carriers from expanding or taking up opportunity when it knocks. (Morris Air using Sierra Pacific & Ryan- Airtran using Miami Air & Ryan, in the 80's WN using some People Express 727's)
Will UA emerge a leaner meaner airline? who knows? Frontier (a good airline) presents themselves as a LCC, but in reality their fares are about equal to UA in most shared markets. Frontier is very strong in O & D boardings at DEN, where they are known. In other cities their "Origin" traffic is much much weaker due to their small presence and the better known presence of their larger rivals. But the history of hubs with dual operators as in DEN, shows that as the smaller operator gets larger, their load factors as a whole go down, taking the spike of profitability that they experience They pick up the routes with the largest passenger counts first, then start adding routes that don't carry as much passenger volume, resulting in a diluted load factor.
We all know that AA, DL, UA, CO & NW has experienced the last 3 years in turmoil. Turmoil they will learn a lot from. If they should be lucky enough to survive & re-structure themselves, and get to the point where they are leaner, meaner & more profitable (interesting-who could be meaner than AA) and have the power to control and flex, they will be a major obstacle to carriers such as Frontier, Airtran, Spirit, etc. If that should happen, secondary hubs are even more important to carriers such as Frontier. (We are seeing the dilusion in profits & load factors even today with JetBlue, as AA, DL, HP etc., match and cookie cutter what they are doing. Overcapacity is rampant, and the strong will survive. It is interesting to see the history of People Express- AA warned them of Chicago being "their turf", and the day they hit Chicago AA- reacted very very strongly. CAn AA do that today, Not to that degree because of their financial position, BUT--you can bet AA, DL, CO, NW and all are waitng for the judges ruling next week with the pay cuts requested at US.


User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2277 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

DLKAPA, I too agree with your assessment of CMH's geographical advantages when it comes to hub operations. Though, as you and most others here know, many national carriers have already come to realize the Ohio Valley region makes an excellent connecting point. With CVG, PIT, CLE, and DTW all within a 3-hour radius of CMH, the prospect of Columbus joining their rank as a major hub is essentially zero. While Frontier might want a presence in the area for future large-scale expansion which might bring large amounts of connecting traffic, right now I don't think it's entirely feasable with so many hubs in the region. Hence I believe that if Frontier does want to make inroads east of Denver, they'll have to find a city that can support a decent sized, mostly O&D operation that's not already a hub.

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

(v) The Rockford (Chicago) press has convinced itself that Frontier will soon announce service DEN/RFD. Frontier hasn't mentioned it.

I think the RFD people are less delusional than the PIT people.  Laugh out loud



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3103 times:
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FlyCMH:

"...I believe that if Frontier does want to make inroads east of Denver..."

Which raises the question - does Frontier want to make inroads east of Denver?

I have a suspicion that, at least in the short term, the answer might be "no". Or "not much."

Unless Cancun counts as east of Denver.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6712 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

For once, I have to agree with Mariner -- the chances of Frontier having a hub at CMH are somewhere between "slim" and "none." Sure, CMH has OK geography for a Midwest hub -- but that really doesn't distinguish it from PIT, CLE, CVG, BNA, MDW, ORD, IND, or DTW. The idea of a hub like ATA's at IND (and serving similar cities) doesn't work too well since WN already serves the majority of those cities non-stop or one-stop from CMH. I suppose you could fly point-to-point to LAX, SFO, RSW, and LGA, but the local demand won't support much more than one flight on each aside from LGA.

If you're thinking about connecting larger cities in the Northeast to Florida, stop right there. Song, jetBlue, AirTran, and Southwest have got most of those well-covered now -- does Frontier really want to be offering BOS-RSW for $59 each way with a connection at CMH? It makes no sense to connect people from the East Coast to the West Coast at CMH unless the DEN hub is completely maxed out (which it isn't). I can see an argument for point-to-point, but:
* Southwest has CMH-BWI covered and Independence has CMH-IAD. DCA slots aren't free.
* Southwest will probably start CMH-PHL within the next year.
* CMH-LGA is possible but LGA slots aren't free, either.
* CMH-BOS doesn't make sense unless Frontier is serving BOS from DEN.
* CMH-MDW, CMH-MCO, and CMH-TPA are all WN routes.
* CMH-LAS and CMH-PHX are both served by WN and HP.

FlyCMH says, "I have posted passenger boarding totals for HP's hub operations in CMH before, and I can tell you first hand that connecting traffic was plentiful in Columbus, as well as local traffic. The true reason to their decision to shutter Columbus was a lack of interest in realizing the full potential of the hub; mostly due to the airline's new fare structure and its inability to function in a limited, RJ-heavy operation..."

Passenger boardings mean nothing when the yields are poor and your market share is poor as well. In spite of its "hub" at CMH, HP held leading market share in only a handful of its non-stop markets. Connecting traffic wasn't making money for HP -- it was only filling seats (at a loss) that would have otherwise flown empty. Heck, Delta, US Airways, and Southwest all had higher O&D market share at CMH than HP in 2000. What exactly is "realizing the full potential of the hub?" Offering lots of loss-making connections to people who are only choosing HP because they are dumping the seats for the lowest price? AWA was losing $25 million per year at CMH -- at about 3500 seats per day (10 daily mainline and 40 daily express flights), they were losing roughly $10 per seat.

In any case, Frontier needs to get its core business back to sustainable profitability before they undertake expensive projects like opening a new hub. With jet fuel prices as high as they are and a soft revenue environment, F9 needs to hunker down at DEN and conserve cash right now.


User currently offlineMoman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Not to get off topic, but I disagree with ConcordeBoy when he says that TPA would make a good connecting airport. Are you kidding? There aren't even enough gates for that kind of operation. Miami is only 37 flight minutes away. Plus the layout makes it quite challenging. TPA has a good thing going in its' diversity of carriers in that one carrier does not have a monopoly over the airport. Hope it stays that way. Plus no way I'd connect in CMH for a flight to the northeast from Florida. I'd rather go to PHL, IAD, or direct to BOS or LGA/JFK. Plenty of options north for Floridians to choose from without having to go through CMH!

Moman



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

If US bails, F9 (or someone else) should scoop up the capacity at PIT.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineNomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Few, if any, in Chicago (ORD or MDW) would connect at CMH to go to Florida when there are multiple nonstops with low fares on Spirit, USA 3000, Ted, Southwest, and ATA (as long as they are around).

User currently offlineKingGeo3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2923 times:

I think the RFD people are less delusional than the PIT people.

Us PIT people are not delusional! Don't you know that LH is going to start 3x daily ops with a 744, F9 and WN are going to each open a major hub operation with unbelievably low fares to all points on the compass (including JST and CKB) and US is going to mail an apology letter to all the taxpayers of Allegheny County.

. . .and then I woke up.  Wink/being sarcastic

Back on topic, I think CMH as a hub will have a similar problem as the PIT-CLE syndrome with people driving away to CLE or CVG for potentially cheaper fares (I really doubt CVG though, I used to drive up from Cincy to catch a cheaper DL flight!)

Regards,

KG3



Nobody respects me . . . :(
User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2277 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

ScottB wrote:

I suppose you could fly point-to-point to LAX, SFO, RSW, and LGA, but the local demand won't support much more than one flight on each aside from LGA.

That's essentially what I envision. All the cities mentioned above could work well for Frontier from CMH. However I would add Boston, as there is a local demand that currently goes un-met with only 6 regional jets a day split between Delta Connection and American Eagle. Add to that nonstops to Denver and to Cancun (a very popular destination from CMH served weekly by USA3000), and you have a nice-sized operation in Columbus.

I can see an argument for point-to-point, but:
* Southwest has CMH-BWI covered and Independence has CMH-IAD. DCA slots aren't free.


Agreed. Especially with WN adding two more flights to BWI, brining their total up to 5 daily flights.

* Southwest will probably start CMH-PHL within the next year.

Assuming US goes belly-under. Currently US fills the market nicely with 6 daily flights; 3 mainline, 3 regional.

* CMH-LGA is possible but LGA slots aren't free, either.

That's true that they're not free. But the possibility of one-stop LAX-CMH-LGA or DEN-CMH-LGA could make the investment worthwhile.

* CMH-BOS doesn't make sense unless Frontier is serving BOS from DEN.

Possibly. It's pretty hard to believe that DEN-BOS could have been that bad of a route for Frontier in the first place. However like LGA, they could have success using CMH as a thru city to from DEN to BOS.

* CMH-MDW, CMH-MCO, and CMH-TPA are all WN routes.

I definitely agree with MDW, but surely not MCO and TPA. MCO is only served once daily by WN, and TPA has twice daily service. America West had up to 3 A319s flying between CMH and MCO at one time, with the aircraft going out full daily. However, like was mentioned, they made absolutely no money with 12 first class seats going out empty each day also. Given Frontier's different product compared to WN and also DL, and their low fares, I have no doubt in my mind that F9 could take on MCO and TPA, similar to ATA in Indy.

* CMH-LAS and CMH-PHX are both served by WN and HP.

Agree also, though Southwest could really add another PHX flight. Like I said earlier, I couldn't really see Frontier opening cities like PHX and LAS nonstop from CMH, since they are for the most part well served already.

Passenger boardings mean nothing when the yields are poor and your market share is poor as well.

That's what I meant by America West not "realizing the full potential of the hub." America West had the ability to change that situation by responding to the demand at Columbus. A good example was the Columbus to Baltimore run.

America West flew the route five times a day on 50-seat regional jets. These flights filled constantly, and more often than not, with O&D passengers. Like you mentioned, load factor means absolutely nothing when your matching Southwest's fares and operating a high-cost RJ operated by an affiliate carrier. Given the overperformance of the route, frequency should have been reduced to 3 flights a day, still trumping WN's frequencies, and mainline aircraft should have been placed between the two cities. Assuming the aircraft fills up, which Southwest seems to have no problem doing currently, the low-fare model that America West has adopted would have worked on the route. The same scenario can be applied to some of the other RJ routes that were flown from CMH.

I realize what lead to the ultimate demise of the America West hub in CMH. I tried to sum it up in saying that it failed "mostly due to the airline's new fare structure and its inability to function in a limited, RJ-heavy operation, coupled with increased pressure from local competitors," however you explained the situation much better than I did. I just believe that America West did have options in rectifying the low yield situation they faced in Columbus. Likewise, I believe that Frontier, with their low cost model and superior product, could succeed where America West couldn't in Columbus.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Iowa744fan-The funny thing about that, is that I almost put THE in front of there, but chose not to...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Frontier will not be opening a hub at CMH EVER!!! F9 does not do what most LCC's are doing by utilizing smaller markets to save money. They go big or go home. They are willing to pay the big money to fly to the big airport in the major markets. If they were to start a new hub it would be in a major city with a big O&D market. I know that in order for them to do this in the East they would have to go up against a tough competitor but that is just the way F9 operates and that is also why they will not be doing it any time soon. I personally think the next big move that we will see from Frontier will be the start of the Caribbean service and possibly a "focus city" in RSW for the service to jump off of. The reason that I say RSW is because F9 has a good relationship with the airport and RSW will soon have more gates then they can fill. Although I do think that RSW is first on the list if the Caribbean service starts the other logical place to start that service from would be FLL and when US is shut down that might be exactly what happens. If F9 was to start this "focus city" to accommodate Caribbean service I would imagine that they would utilize Jet Express in the surrounding cities and the only mainline jets we would see would be from DEN and LAX. Again, this is only my opinion I have not heard anything to back this up with facts.
Another thing worth mentioning is that F9 does operate a sort of "focus city" in CUN. So it is not unlike F9 to see an opportunity and just go for it like LAX and CUN. I would imagine if they started the Caribbean service I speak of they might also add direct flights from not only the cities that they currently serve CUN from but also more "niche" cities in the same way they did with the Mexico service. The possibilities are endless!!!!!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

I believe Pride Air tried MSY back in the 80's and failed miserably.

Point being?





but I disagree with ConcordeBoy when he says that TPA would make a good connecting airport. Are you kidding?

Hmm, remind me again of where I said anything about connections at TPA...?


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Um, I think that HP did have at least 1 LAX-CMH flight for a while before they shut down. As far as F9 starting up there, there has been more mention of them doing MSY (would be interesting, as I go to law school in NO but I am from L.A.), though that would not be the best from a hub and spoke stand point. Then again, IAH is way south and CO makes that work big time (then again, Houston is the 4th largest city in the US and fills forward cabins with oil people, but MSY has a big metro area as well, lots of monied tourists and a few businesses of its own) and only 300 miles from MSY. From an O&D stand point, MSY would be much better than CMH. Again, I think F9 will probably focus on DEN and point to point for now, as they need more planes to do anything else major


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

As I said earlier... MSY wouldn't make that great of a domestic hub. It's got decent O&D, but connection facilities are not extensive, WN is big here, and it's surrounded by much more established domestic hubs (IAH/DFW/MEM/ATL)


With a little tweaking to gate assignments*, it probably however, would make a great USA-Caribbean/LatinAmerican gateway, particularly if a LoCo attempted to make a go at it:
  • no WN
  • no real competition from anyone except MIA (who's at a level unto itself anyways)
  • customs facilities already in place which have the structural capacity to handle multiple flights (widebody and narrowbody) concurrently if staffed to meet that demand.



    *finish the extention of Concourse D, leave the East Terminal alone, scramble UA (and perhaps AA) to other currently unused gates... and the entire international councourse (16 gates: 12 of which can service int'l arrivals, five of which can handle widebodies while all other gates are in use, 1 of which can handle a 747-sized aircraft while all other gates are in use) would be the new airline's to use.


  • User currently offlineUltrapig From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 581 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

    It's more accurately "Duh" Ohio State University

    25 Qwerty : I've flown in and out of CMH many times. It is a lousy airport because the community of Columbus offers very little to an airline. - There are no larg
    26 ATLhomeCMH : Likewise, I believe that Frontier, with their low cost model and superior product, could succeed where America West couldn't in Columbus. I can always
    27 SunVAlley : The MSY standard is very much the same as LAS. HIgh amounts of steeply discounted travelers filling up aircraft with packaged tours by consolidators f
    28 Qwerty : Columbus is not a growing city That couldn't be further from the truth. I'll find the census data and post it here. You might need to define further.
    29 Post contains links FlyCMH : Qwerty wrote: - There are no large maintence hangers, save NetJets main facility, so who would want to mini-hub without a maintence base. Chautauqua A
    30 FlyCMH : I couldn't let this egregious error pass either: RE: DL picking up the HP's clack. DL is just feeding local people to ATL and CVG. Ummm, Delta and Del
    31 Moman : Concorde boy: "MSY, TPA wouldnt be all that great as domestic hubs, but could possibly serve an airline well as Carribean/L.American gateways." Sounds
    32 Airfrnt : I think that there is a outside chance that F9 may chose to move into an east coast market if US does a belly flop. However, I think there is a much b
    33 InnocuousFox : I agree that they have their eyes on US particularly. If US liquidates, there will be some prime hub space available at PHL and CLT (or even PIT for t
    34 Mariner : I agree that everything changes if US Airways folds, but I don't think Frontier is banking on it, and I have some problems with a hub in the east for
    35 Rage323machine : F9 hub in CMH we saw HP try it no success! Well let me point out also HP did pull out due to lack or interest not productivity of the city nor hub. I
    36 Burnsie28 : 1) Columbus residents are more likely to get a NW focus city (Heartland Strategy) then Frontier. 2) Frontier does not have the money to open a new hub
    37 InnocuousFox : However, if the market changes that significantly (i.e. US fails), it would be an interesting meeting to see if they could get financing to pick up th
    38 N1120A : On the CMH v. DEN thing, you have to realize a few things. DEN is a much bigger city than CMH. It also has one of the most state of the art airports i
    39 ConcordeBoy : The Origin business traffic in MSY just isn't there. (if it were you would see a lot more of WN) ...we will. They just got five more gates here, and c
    40 N1120A : WN seems to be looking to add another LAX-MSY flight, which will be cool as their current timings suck and UA has more flights. Probably non-stops to
    41 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : and UA has more flights ...for a grand total of two Anywho, there's another airline looking at LAX-MSY, though I'm not so sure they'll go through with
    42 N1120A : Yeah, I would think a few AUS non-stops would be good for them. Connecting the 2 party and left thinking islands in seas of conservatism would be grea
    43 ConcordeBoy : Connecting the 2 party and left thinking islands in seas of conservatism would be great. ...I'm guessing you must not be all that familiar with Housto
    44 N1120A : Houston as liberal? One can only dream. I would love to see anyone make MSY any kind of hub. If IAH is not too far south, MSY should not be either as
    45 MSYtristar : I just have a couple of comments here. 1) The notion that MSY is a 100% leisure market is completely unfounded. The city has numerous businesses (name
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