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Lion Air To Take 734, MD90  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4160 posts, RR: 36
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Lion Air of Indonesia will add 10 B737-400 and 5 MD-90 to its fleet. Source: http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040929/4/1p09a.html

Regards
Flying-Tiger


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3451 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3280 times:


I guess the MD-90s are ex-Delta's or ex-SAS and the 734s are from KLM, US Airways or THY ?! This is just a thought...i don't want to make a rumour !!!


User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2190 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3263 times:

I doubt that the MD-90s are coming from Delta or SAS, as neither have announced definitive plans on retiring them.

Since it's five MD-90s, sounds like it might be the five ex AA/Reno aircraft that have been sitting in the desert at MZJ since 2001. I would love to see them with a new operator finally.

However - The 15 aircraft will include 10 units of Boeing 737-400 and five units of MD-90 produced in 2000, company chief spokesman Hasyim Arsal Alhabsi said on Tuesday.

Only three MD-90s were produced in all of 2000, and they are with Saudi Arabian. Probably just a typo.





User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

Lion Air is already operating a pair of B734s, which it took over from Merpati a couple of months ago. Apart from that, there's 23 MD82s, from different sources, including ex CO airframes. Lion has not too good of a reputation in Indonesia, and the company and its passengers seem to have a talent to wear down the planes in no time...



User currently offlineGaruda From Indonesia, joined Nov 2000, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

The 15 aircraft will include 10 units of Boeing 737-400 and five units of MD-90 produced in 2000, company chief spokesman Hasyim Arsal Alhabsi said on Tuesday.

Only three MD-90s were produced in all of 2000, and they are with Saudi Arabian. Probably just a typo.


Well, Lion advertised all over Indonesian media that ALL of their MD80s are built after 1996, so I'm not surprised if they "shaved" some years of their fleet's age.

[Edited 2004-09-30 09:43:26]

User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Well, it's good to hear that Indonesia is blooming with LCCs both domestically and regionally. But what I think is most appropriate to say about them is that they are of lower standards than anyone expects of LCCs, say, AirAsia.


the company and its passengers seem to have a talent to wear down the planes in no time...

Well, the reason behind that again comes from the economic situation of the local people in Indonesia. Many people there can't afford higher-priced LCCs, so the company can only charge them a very limited amount of money. Because of that, the cashflow available to the company is relatively low, so that they seem to wear and tear the fleet in no time.

Second, most users of LCCs in Indonesia are either first time fliers, or those who tend to not care about the environment they're in because it's a LCC. Many of the higher-level individuals tend to fly with Garuda than with LCCs.


Regards,
AK


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

I thought that I read that China Northern was talking of trying to get rid of their MD90's????


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User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Well, the reason behind that again comes from the economic situation of the local people in Indonesia. Many people there can't afford higher-priced LCCs, so the company can only charge them a very limited amount of money. Because of that, the cashflow available to the company is relatively low, so that they seem to wear and tear the fleet in no time.

Higher priced LCCs? For a starter, Lion doesn't really position itself as an LCC, as it still offers food and drinks for free to all its passengers. Indonesia has only 2 carriers that market themselves as LCC with a LCC product: Garuda's Citilink, and Bouraq-offspring Bali Air (which, incidentally, doesn't fly into Bali).

Most other semi-LCC operators in Indonesia are of the same type as Lion, offering a mostly one-class product, but with food and beverage service for all passengers. As for Lion being lower-priced than the others, may of the other carriers, including Merpati, Bouraq, Adam Air, Jatayu, Mandala, Star Air, BAtavia and others, are often cheaper actually. Yet, Lion always seems the shabbiest of them all.

Far apart from all the others is Garuda, the only real 2 class operator in Indonesia, with mostly higher fares, although its bottom tarifs are virtually identical with many of its lower cost competitors.

As far as 2-class products goes, apart from Garuda, Mandala operates a number of its aircraft in a 2-class lay-out, which is sold as either Business Class or Super Economy class, depending on the route. Lately, both Bouraq and Lion have started experimenting with Business Class, but I have no info as to the exact status of these trials.

In any case, while I wouldn't have trouble using Mandala or even Bouraq, I have serious questions about Lion. There have been several incidents with this company, and it is only their well-connected management and PR-machine that have made sure that they're still around and that people are still flying them.



User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Lion doesn't really position itself as an LCC, as it still offers food and drinks

It's true that they do give food and drink, but they are worth Rp5000 (or thereabouts), which is equivalent to around US$0.60. Yes, 60 cents. Many Indonesians in general expects courtesy, even if they only pay a small amount of fare. And the fact that there are new airlines literally born every month, every airline in Indonesia is competing with each other. That is why most carrier, apart from Garuda, could in fact be categorized as LCCs.


I have serious questions about Lion. There have been several incidents with this company

Yes, it's true, and the fact that Lion is the second largest airline in Indonesia, it's vision is to keep expanding and expanding, until it overtakes Garuda (I believe), and because of this, they tend to forget maintenance on the aircrafts.

Regards,
AK


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3742 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2921 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

I don't think KLM has any plan on retirering the Classic 737's in the near future, the 400's could come from US Airways or THY, or whoever else is planning on phasing out 737-400's.

US Airways: very likely as they may liquidate in February if they don't reach salary cut agreements with employees, even if they stay aloft they are likely remove the 737's from service and put those for sale.

Turkish Airlines: possible since they are likely to phase out their 400's in favor of brand new 800's as discussed recently in an other topic.

Maybe British Airways because they are planning on getting rid of the 400's they still have in favor of A319/320 for mainline flights within UK and Europe.

Maybe ex-Cibybird or ex-Sobelair 400's if those are still not picked up by another operator. I believe the 3 ex-Sabena 400's re already flying with other airlines.

There aren't that many MD-90 operators around the world: SAS, Delta, Saudia, JAS and the ex-AA/Reno birds resting in the desert. The latter ones are more likely to be picked up as stated.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

There aren't that many MD-90 operators around the world: SAS, Delta, Saudia, JAS and the ex-AA/Reno birds resting in the desert. The latter ones are more likely to be picked up as stated.

I think you're right Ben, because I remember reading an article in one of the Aviation magazines in Indonesia, an interview with the owner of Lion. He said why he chose MD80/90 over 737s or A320s is because there is a heck lot more MD80/90s resting in the desert, and not being used, so it's a lot cheaper to lease than the 737s or 320s. So my guess is that he will pick up ones from the desert. But he also said, that 737s will be in the agenda ones business has bloomed, and now that they are the second largest airline in Indonesia, there's also speculation over them buying T7s or even 747s....

I'm sorry if I can't state the article, because I think this was last year (my memory's rusting like jets in the Mojave Desert), but I'm pretty sure it's an Indonesian Aviation magazine.

Regards,
AK



User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

So my guess is that he will pick up ones from the desert. But he also said, that 737s will be in the agenda ones business has bloomed, and now that they are the second largest airline in Indonesia, there's also speculation over them buying T7s or even 747s....

One shouldn't pay too much attention about what Lion Air's Public Relations machine spurns out, because very little of it seems to become reality. The airline has previously stated that by the end of this year they would be operating A333s and B777s to a multitude of international destinations, yet, on the international side, we haven't seen anything but reductions lately.

Lion proudly entered Singapore about a year ago, its second international destination after KL, with 4 daily flights. The launch was marred by problems, and within the first couple of weeks or so, the airline was under investigation in Singapore for a multitude of breaches of all kinds of regulations (Singapore has regulations, just like Indonesia, but Lion wasn't used to their being enforced). The frequency, presumably as a results of these problems, soon came down to 2 daily flights, and has in recent months been reduced to 1 daily flight only. Presumably, the competition with the likes of ValuAir and Air Asia has proved to tough for Lion's shabby product.

So take their big plans with more than just a grain of salt. The introduction of widebodies is not even close to becoming reality...



User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1980 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

As for the MD-90s, could we finally see the Pro Air ones leave MZJ? There's 3 right there, add in a couple others and you have your 5...

Just what I'd like to see, Lion titles on a Pro Air scheme...machine! Just like the CO colored -82s...

Jeffrey



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

A340Spotter beat me to it, while I was trying to find a photo that shows the 3 Pro Air MD-90s in storage.

These could be three of the a/c Lion air is considering (just above center of photo):
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui




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