OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4030 times:
Southwest may consider D/FW Airport
Gates to be vacated by Delta in February could entice carrier
By ERIC TORBENSON and SUZANNE MARTA / The Dallas Morning News
Southwest Airlines Co., which for years steadfastly avoided service from sprawling Dallas/Fort
Worth International Airport, may be softening its stance.
The discounter's chief executive said Thursday that executives are closely watching how D/FW fills
gates soon to be left vacant by Delta Air Lines Inc.
"It is definitely a situation that we are monitoring," Gary Kelly, who was named Southwest's CEO in
July, said in an interview.
"It remains true that we don't want to serve this region from D/FW for a variety of reasons. We want
to continue to serve the Dallas-Fort Worth region from Love Field, and nothing has changed there in
terms of our desires."
However, Mr. Kelly said, the airline could take a fresh look at D/FW Airport because of the
opportunity presented by Delta's decision to pull its hub.
The move will put thousands of passengers up for grabs starting in February.
Now D/FW's No. 2 carrier, Delta will probably keep only about 4 of its 19 exclusive-rights jet gates in Terminal E, freeing up the rest, airport officials said.
"The airline landscape is changing, and it's something we're going to continue to monitor," Mr. Kelly
said. "We're watching closely to see what service is added and by whom."
Don't know if the link will work, but it's a free registration...
Another interesting aspect of the article is that it mentions -possible- used 737s, presumably older
-300 models...
"Southwest's ability to jump into new markets has typical constraints, one of the biggest being
aircraft. The airline adds 29 planes next year and would likely go to the used 737 market if it needed more planes, especially in the first half of 2005, Mr. Kelly said."
"In this environment, we would get some very good deals," he said. "We are fortunate in that we've
got a good amount of cash on hand and a very strong balance sheet."
FRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3911 times:
He is either making plans for a fleet addition of 737-800's from ATA's looming bankruptcy, or he's trying to goad AA into spending money they don't have on leasing Delta's gates in a pre-emptive move, and adding flights which probably won't be profitable (or Delta would not be discontinuing them).
ATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3891 times:
or he's trying to goad AA into spending money they don't have on leasing Delta's gates in a pre-emptive move
I think this is more realistic. Saying that they're monitoring the gate situation at DFW is sort of stating the obvious. Most carriers who aren't nearing liquidation are.
I don't think it'll happen. If it does, it'll be limited.
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3883 times:
USA Today also has an article on this.
I said it before I think it would work and work well!!!!!!!!!
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3887 times:
>>>I think there's a spot for me in Market Planning!
You and TxAgKuwait both...
I think that "Southwest [is] watching AirTran" is a foregone conclusion, and has been for some time. It's entirely conceivable that starting DFW could be a "containing" move re: AirTran, and a pre-emptive move re: JBLU (in the same way that starting PHL was).
This ought to be fun to watch.
The last SWA -200s are still scheduled to retire in mid-January 2005, so after that, -800s (ex-ATA or other) are anyone's guess, as are used -300s from other sources. I'm presuming that any used -300s acquired would have to be of the old-style "round-dial" type (versus EFIS), and I don't know that there are that many left out there that SWA doesn't already have in its fleet.
Okie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2410 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3860 times:
"It remains true that we don't want to serve this region from D/FW for a variety of reasons. We want to continue to serve the Dallas-Fort Worth region from Love Field, and nothing has changed there in terms of our desires."
However, Mr. Kelly said, the airline could take a fresh look at D/FW Airport because of the opportunity presented by Delta's decision to pull its hub
One would not to think WN a predator but at least an opportunistic.
Seems I remember AA leasing up some gates at DAL and then eventually dropping the lease after Legend failed at considerable costs to AA
WN is a forward looking company but I suspect this is more about rattling AA cage at DFW with a few non committal statements at no cost to WN.
Kohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3859 times:
Would it be conceivable to see the retirement plan for the 200s change a bit? Keep them around - contained solely in the DAL markets - and take the 300s/500s/700s that go through that system for use at DFW...
Plus, there was the recent hubub over the "88 flight reduction". So there are a few open lines of flight there...
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3843 times:
>>>Would it be conceivable to see the retirement plan for the 200s change a bit?
Don't think so, given the cycle-related "aging aircraft" AD requirements. N721WN and N722WN just got parked in the last few days, so I think we're down to 10 now. Between now and 12/31, 5 more are supposed to go, and the last 5 a couple of weeks later in mid-January. Kinda hard to turn back the clock on cycles/hours...
>>>Plus, there was the recent hubub over the "88 flight reduction". So there are a few open lines of flight there...
At our utilization rates, that's eqivalent to about 8 aircraft, and I think that capability has already been redeployed as of 31OCT/01NOV, so that's not a factor for any potential DFW ops, if in fact they do eventually occur.
Drerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4916 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3841 times:
I wouldn't put my money on ATA 738s just yet--as that would introduce added crew cost. My bet is on used -300s; but hey--I wouldn't have wagered they would run flights out of DFW so it remains to be seen. If they start DFW service-my guess would be BWI, PHX, HOU, LAS, LAX, MDW, MCO.
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3440 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3834 times:
I think the only 73G's that southwest will be owning will be the -700. The 800 and 900's are stretched, so they hold more people, but they have the same wing as the 700 (so the same fuel capacity) so the range isn't as great.....you know for those routes to hawaii and mexico that southwest is going to serve in the next few months
Swacle From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3799 times:
This whole DFW thing is very interesting, to tell you the truth. No one ever saw us serving PHL, but that is a whole different ball park. WN doesnt serve another airport 10 miles from PHL with 140 flights where headquarters is also located. Granted BWI is about 90 miles away, but still just a bit different scenario. I think it would work, but I also think that service should be limited so as not to hurt our DAL operations. Sure, HOU should be served as well as other cities that we serve from DAL, but not at the levels we currently serve from DAL. If this were to happen, the emphasis should be put on non-wright/shelby cities that could be cash cows for WN, such as LAX, SEA, PHX, LAS, MDW, PHL, MCO, BWI, etc. While I don't see this happening, It would be very interesting to see how it all played out if it did.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3763 times:
I think the only 73G's that southwest will be owning will be the -700. The 800 and 900's are stretched, so they hold more people, but they have the same wing as the 700 (so the same fuel capacity) so the range isn't as great....
The range difference between the 73G and 738 is less than 200nm so I don't see that being an issue. The real kick in the balls is personell schedueling, a 738 requires a larger crew than a 73G.
This whole DFW thing is very interesting, to tell you the truth
WN and DFW sure turns me on, they are my airline of choice for DAL-HOU which I take at least 2 times a month minimum. I would fly WN much more often if I could use my RR and/or purchase direct tickets out of Texas....
Swacle From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3726 times:
I think the only 73G's that southwest will be owning will be the -700. The 800 and 900's are stretched, so they hold more people, but they have the same wing as the 700 (so the same fuel capacity) so the range isn't as great....
The range difference between the 73G and 738 is less than 200nm so I don't see that being an issue. The real kick in the balls is personell schedueling, a 738 requires a larger crew than a 73G.
How about the 738X or 739X...Boeing has put these on the table but I never heard anything else after the initialk news release a couple years back. The -900X was supposedly to offer about a 3000nm range with higher thrust engines and an additional emergency exit to accomidate upto 209 pax...might be a better idea if we are going to have to add a FA for the 800...but overall I still agree that we wont add anything larger than the -700.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7677 posts, RR: 18 Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3707 times:
The Dallas-Fort Worth metro is so big and populated that a decent sized operation would not likely pull pax flying from Love Field. With the Wright-Shelby Amendment restrictions still in place at Love there are many existing markets from DFW that Southwest could easily enter and do well in. And most of these markets they are well established as a brand in.
To me, to not scoop up a bunch of those gates and start ~25 flights a day from DFW would be stupid. AirTran, JetBlue, and everyones' Grandma will be watching the situation there closely.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4114 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3687 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
WN wants nothing to do with the -800's. They like to have a quick turnaround and those are too long for that.
Jmsintexas From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 30 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3685 times:
One example of where this scenario is already taking place is here in Houston. While the majority of WN service to the area is to close-in HOU, they also serve far-flung IAH. Not only that, but IAH is the headquarters and hub of another major carrier, similar to the situation WN would be facing at DFW with AA. With that in mind, the idea seems plausible.
Anyway, to this (very) untrained observer, this seems like the perfect time for WN to expand out to DFW, because:
1) AA might not have the resources to fight back in the same way they might have in the past.
2) DFW will probably be willing to offer some pretty good incentives to attract someone (anyone!) to help fill up Terminal E, so if WN doesn't do it, then they will be allowing someone else to get a larger foothold on their market. Whether it's a new entrant, expansion of current services, or (most likely) a combination of both, somebody is going to take some of those gates.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3687 times:
How about the 738X or 739X...Boeing has put these on the table but I never heard anything else after the initialk news release a couple years back.
Boeing states that they require an order for only 35-40 frames to begin production. This number might have dropped since so many MMA were ordered
The two derrivitives aren't exactly what they once were... I think Boeing now plans on using a common 737-IGW structure for the 737-MMA, 738X, 739X. They would all have feature a heavier wing, stronger landing gear, tankerage increase, uprated engines, and a MTOW of 185,000 lbs versus the 738's current 174,000 lb. The 739X would also have an additional exit door and flat pressure bulkhead to increase seating without a stretch. The 738X would be ideal for long-thin routes, and I can't help but think of CO using them across the Atlantic.
The Dallas-Fort Worth metro is so big and populated that a decent sized operation would not likely pull pax flying from Love Field
I completly agree... the L.A. area (while MUCH larger than the DFW area) has something like 4 WN airports. The DFW area has a population of 4+ million, it can sustain two airports.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3678 times:
>>>The range difference between the 73G and 738 is less than 200nm so I don't see that being an issue. The real kick in the balls is personell schedueling, a 738 requires a larger crew than a 73G.
The fact that an -800 would require a 4th F/A isn't as much as an insurmountable challenge as it sounds. Crew sked is readily able to keep track of -200 qualified crews as a subset of the whole group, and Dispatch/MX does the same with the aircraft. Our computer systems are robust!
Something else that's a possibility is that were -800s acquired (from ATA, or elsewhere), they could be on short-term leases (1-2 years, just to give Boeing enough time to get additional -700s in the pipeline for us), and not permanent acquistions.
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3440 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3611 times:
it sure would be convenient when non-reving though(if swa flew out of DFW)!!! I'm non-reving to Phoenix today and i have to go through albequerque, and to go to chicago or oakland or any of those far flung cities requires at least a stop at houston, usually another one or two before finally reaching your final destination. stupid wright-shelby.
COfaninBOS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3605 times:
People keep comparing LOV and DFW to HOU and IAH.
I think many fail to realize that the only service out of IAH is to Dallas Love with just six flights a day. That's it. They aren't really in competition with CO. Instead, they are offering businesses in the Woodlands, Greenspoint, and other places in the North Houston metro area, cheap, walk-up fares to central Dallas!
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4684 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3595 times:
I've heard from several AA pilots that management has always been concerned that if DL were to close the DFW hub, then WN would consider setting up shop in Terminal E to fly to cities it can't serve out of DAL.
Air Tran is probably considering increasing service out of DFW, but it's still the "new kid" in town. WN has a loyal following, and I bet it could cause some headaches for AA at DFW.
25 S12PPL: How is the turn around on a -800 longer than that on a -700??? It's the same airplane... Anyway. I thought WN wouldn't pick up -800's because it would
26 Jmsintexas: Point taken that WN is not competing with CO out of IAH - I thought they had more destinations than just DAL (and the cities they could connect to out
27 Bartond: FYI - DFW metroplex has close to 5.6million
28 AirStatDFW: I think it would be a great idea for WN to fly out of DFW to places they can't fly out of DAL. I would love it since I live 8 miles from DFW and about
29 Captoveur: AA would kill WN if they moved to DFW.. The smartest thing they could do is stay at DAL. If it's not broken why fix it?
30 ChrisNH: The point appears to be that Southwest would be interested in DFW IF the price was right. They say that they are quite happy at Love Field, and that's
31 Kohflot: Captoveur: What could AA do about it? They've already been forced to lower fares in the DFW-LA market and any market Southwest goes into from DFW will
32 UA744KSFO: "AA would kill WN if they moved to DFW.. The smartest thing they could do is stay at DAL. If it's not broken why fix it?" Saying that AA would kill WN
34 OPNLguy: >>> It would not matter if they had glass cockpit or not, as their pilots fly 733/735 and 73G all the time and don't have a problem. If DL does not ha
35 Sccutler: Southwest could, if they chose, open up DFW as a large-scale station and there is bupkus AA could do about it. WN is not Vanguard, not Legend. WN can
36 OPNLguy: >>>I also envision AA and WN brokering a deal by whcih WN agrees to remain at DAL, and AA agrees to withdraw its remaining objection to repeal of the
37 Ckfred: If WN sets up shop at DFW, and that is no means certain, it can cause some hurt at AA, but it can't kill AA. DL is going to vacate about 15 gates in T
38 Sccutler: To clarify, when I stated WN could "crush" AA, I meant on head-to-head routes, not that I believe WN would (or would try to) deal a death blow to AA.
39 AirplaneBoy: WN has a lot of money in the bank, WN is making tons of money (though less than previous years, but who isn't right now?), WN has planes on order, WN
40 Kaitak: I'm sure a few American Airlines executives are choking over their cereal (well, they will be a few hours from now) on reading this. "Why not just sho
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
