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NWA Wants Boeing To RE Open B757 Line  
User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16015 times:

According to the VP Inflight Services at NWA and sources in NWA's SOC (System Operations Control), NWA is exploring with Boeing the possibility of re-opening the B757 line. NWA is so smitten with the B757 and it's performance that several routes are being considered. BOS-GLA and BOS-CDG for transatlantic (former NWA routes operated with DC10's). Also, NWA is quite pleased with it's re-entry into West Coast-HNL markets (LAX, SEA, SFO and PDX bookings/loads are strong) that NWA wants to go double daily in the West Coast-HNL market. NWA is also thrilled with the performance on SEA-KOA/OGG and wants to expand as well. Possible cities include SAN, PHX and LAS. Will be interesting to see how this impacts HA and Aloha. From what I have read, NWA will be the only major US carrier with this type of frequency in this market. Even UA has only 1 daily out of SFO/LAX. Anyone else following this ? Big grin


PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15812 times:

Has Boeing dismantled any of the jigs to build the aircraft on? This would be great news if true.


Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15805 times:

Do you have a source for this rumor? Seems rather odd to me, NW is a long time 757 operator, and now that the 757 line is closing, they suddenly decide that they need more of the type?

That being said, the 757-300 is a great airliner.....its timing was all wrong. It is probably the most effecient way to move 225 pax on routes from 1500-3000 miles and is well suited for NW's West Coast-Hawaiian services.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15781 times:

Even UA has only 1 daily out of SFO/LAX.

United operates an assload of Hawaiian market flights other than KOA and OGG with frequency that NW couldn't support.

To the topic... the bottom line is that NW would have to order 100 or 150 new 757s in order to make it even mildly interesting for Boeing to consider, and the shortest timeframe possible would probably be a year.

I doubt seriously this is possible. Boeing suppliers have nothing in the chain for the 757 and would have to reramp. It wouldn't be worth it to them.

If NW really wants to refocus the 757 onto North Atlantic and Hawaiian routes, the best (and cheapest) route is to supplement their extremely large 319/320 fleet with the 321 for domestic high-load routes, and dedicate the 757 fleet to Oceanic routes.

N


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15775 times:

Though I view this such assertion with a heavy degree of skepticism, if indeed it's true... you'd think NW could've been slightly quicker to the draw with this.

Boeing scoured the Earth for nearly three years trying to find additional 757 customers. They've also got the charge down for closing the line.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15752 times:

Would be super nice if it's true....but, isn't there a few NW 757's in the desert right now, or did they recall those?

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15731 times:

If NWA wants more 752's, I'm sure Condor will be happy to sell them some (or all) of their PW powered ones. The cost would be reasonable and with D-checks and new interiors & paint, you would have wonderful new capacity. If NWA wants new 753's, that's a different matter as I believe NWA is the only PW powered operator of the 753.

[Edited 2004-10-04 04:34:49]

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15712 times:

So we here that NW is looking at the 7E7-8 to open up new Asian markets, then we hear they wish Boeing would print out a few more 757s? Any possible relation? It's kinda wierd that NW gave Boeing a cold-shoulder for so many years and is suddenly at their doorsteep looking for orders.....

User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15674 times:

Thanks gigneil for the UA info. Will be interesting to see how much frequency UAL maintains in bankruptcy. Not sure if I agree with your A321 theory though. We are using 757's in the Pacific also with great success.

For Deltaguy: no 757's in desert. Some in pacific.



PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15663 times:

While, I'm sure that there are PLENTY of 752s in the desert, I really think that it's the 753 that they want more of.

I thought I read somewhere that NW is perverbially "kicking themselves" for not ordering more, and by the time they took delivery on them it was too late to get anymore.

Anyone?



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineMonorail From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 625 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15658 times:

Hey, if CO could get new 762s a few years ago, the precedent certainly stands for NW to persaude Boeing to make some more 57s


Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs!
User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15651 times:

DfwRevolution, I totally agree. Management must have had a Boeing epiphany or something. Big grin


PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
User currently offlineKim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15619 times:

", the precedent certainly stands for NW to persaude Boeing to make some more 57s"

I don't recall this precedent. Do you really think Boeing would open up the line again for *ONE* customer after trying for 3 years without success to find more customers???

I really think the 757 is a *GREAT* plane in both -200 and -300 forms but I have trouble believing this could really come about.



User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15608 times:

DfwRevolution, I'm unaware of any stories about Boeing giving NWA the cold shoulder. What is the background of that comment? Thanks. Also, I recall a few years ago Atlas Air bought 2 ex-ANA 747SR's with GE engines to re-engine 2 of their PW powered 742 freighters (I know 1 was an ex-Air France purpose built freighter). Condor may be willing to sell some of it's RR powered 753's which could then be modified with PW engines if so needed. The cost of these relatively new & low time 753's would certainly be less than re-starting the 757 production line, not to mention having to get all of the suppliers and long lead items lined up.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15579 times:

Hey, if CO could get new 762s a few years ago, the precedent certainly stands for NW to persaude Boeing to make some more 57s

-------------

This would be very different, when CO chose the 762, the 767 line was up and running......the 762/763/764 are all built on the same line and very little extra effort was required for Boeing to build 10 shortbody 762ERS for CO. In this case, Boeing has closed down 757 production - restarting the line would have major financial impacts, as well as getting the line and suppliers back on-line.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15522 times:

Hey, if CO could get new 762s a few years ago, the precedent certainly stands for NW to persaude Boeing to make some more 57s

Anecdotal conclusion at best.

It cost Boeing very little to output more 762s, as the 767 line was still alive & kicking at the time, and therefore manufacturing that variant could easily be worked into the construction numbers.


User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15510 times:

Navion: Yep, its the -300 NWA is hot for...

Also agree with Dutchjet about the major financial impacts of releasing the line again. Although none of us know just how much Boeing completely shut it down do we?

ForeverRC: yes, NWA is kicking themselves and I must admit, I am surprised at how hot they are for this aircraft..now it will just be second hand jets. I am sure they will get a good deal. Or, did they plan on this all along? looking at the dollar...



PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15485 times:

Is NW the only operator of PW powered 757-300s?

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15462 times:

Will be interesting to see how much frequency UAL maintains in bankruptcy.

United has been in bankruptcy for a very long time, and has added significant capacity to the Hawaiian Islands in that time.

Not sure if I agree with your A321 theory though.

I don't see why... the 321 is an available aircraft, and can be used on shorter domestic routes to free up the 757s for more profitable work.

Hey, if CO could get new 762s a few years ago, the precedent certainly stands for NW to persaude Boeing to make some more 57s

No such precedent. The 767 line was open, the 757 line is not. The 762 is a currently-in-production airliner even as we speak.

N


User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15454 times:

Dutchjet:

Not sure but I have seen much debate on the PW issue. Interestingly, NWA got rid of the few former RC 757's as they were RR (now with America West).



PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15441 times:

Is NW the only operator of PW powered 757-300s?

Yes, they are.

N


User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15436 times:

gigneil: U-N-C-L-E


PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15411 times:

I know about the Republic 757s, ancient history!!

I really do not see NW compromising on the engine issue, if they are serious about additional 753s, they will want those aircraft equipped with PWs, just like the rest of their 757 fleet.

As mentioned above, Condor has been looking to dump all or part of its 753 fleet for years.....to date has any 757 had an engine swap, going from PW to RR engines, or vice versa....sounds expensive to me.


User currently offlineSmileyjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15391 times:

Dutchjet:

I couldn't resist digging into the archives.



PSA....Contact Bay Departure....So Long....
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15368 times:

to date has any 757 had an engine swap, going from PW to RR engines, or vice versa....sounds expensive to me.

It is possible... but, as you said, very expensive, and I don't know if its been done on the 75 before.

N


25 Navion : An engine swap has got to be cheaper than re-starting production or buying new ones if production is restarted. Don't forget, the RR engines are popul
26 Aloha717200 : I would love to see this happen but I don't know that it's a likely possiblity. But here's a question: What about a conversion? This is probably a stu
27 Post contains images Northwest717 : Wow, NW seems to be getting pretty "buddy buddy" with Boeing here. Maybe we'll even see them place an order for the 717 . I can only hope.... -Tim
28 Gigneil : It would require scrapping one plane to increase the size of another. But could it be done? I sincerely doubt it... but stranger things, right? An eng
29 Smileyjet : "Wow, NW seems to be getting pretty "buddy buddy" with Boeing here. Maybe we'll even see them place an order for the 717 . I can only hope...." Manage
30 BR715-A1-30 : So let me get this straight. 1. NOBODY orders the 757? 2. Boeing decides to close the line down 3. NWA apparently decides they want some more after th
31 L-188 : I am sure that NWA will have as much success with Boeing reopening the 757 line as Lufthansa Cargo had with Boeing keeping the MD-11 line open.
32 Post contains links Tekelberry : According to this article, the last 757 is being produced this month, so the line hasn't been shut down yet.
33 Yyz717 : NWA could have kept the 757 line with an order for 12-18 aircraft to be delivered at 1/month. It's a little late now for them to be lamenting the clos
34 Smileyjet : Thanks Tekelberry. At last someone who isn't a know it all arguementative. Much appreciated.
35 Leneld : Could PDX see an additional NWA PDX-HNL flight in the future?
36 JBirdAV8r : Hmm...hasn't Boeing Wichita already sent off the last 75 fuselage?
37 HlywdCatft : I'm surprised Northwest hasn't asked Boeing to reopen the Douglas DC-9 line
38 UA777222 : Would this have anything to do with the changing of the CEO? Thanks again. UA777222
39 NW7E7 : Even though the last 757 is due to be delivered this month, the beginning of the line of parts might have shut down already. Hopefully this is not the
40 AirframeAS : Doesn't it cost money to re-open the 757 line? I highly doubt that Boeing wants to re-open the line. If NW was that interested in getting more 753s, B
41 Jc2354 : I know this could be considered a stupid remark, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Why couldn't Boeing offer a shorter fuselage of the 757-300, perhaps call it 757-4
42 AirframeAS : Why couldn't Boeing offer a shorter fuselage of the 757-300, perhaps call it 757-400? Take a good look at the 738 and 739....there ya go!
43 Lufthansa : Guys dont be so sure.... This may be a "just in time" measure. NW has been a very good airbus customer the last few years, and I am sure boeing would
44 Adipasqu : HP would love to get their hands on some new 757's (probably both -200 and -300...RR powered of course). If both NW and HP were to order, say 100-200
45 Yyz717 : Infact if I were CEO of boeing, I'd Give NW a handful of 717s (fully optioned with higher weights and ventral stairs etc) and tell them that if they l
46 AirframeAS : HP would love to get their hands on some new 757's (probably both -200 and -300...RR powered of course). How do YOU know this??
47 Lufthansa : AirframeAS When was the last time you travelled to Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai or Tokyo? Seriously, I live in the eastern half of the world and I c
48 AirframeAS : When was the last time you travelled to Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai or Tokyo? Never have...and have no plans to or any intentions to. Seriously, I
49 Adipasqu : HP would love to get their hands on some new 757's (probably both -200 and -300...RR powered of course). How do YOU know this?? It has been discussed
50 Lufthansa : Airframe AS I can't believe how short sighted your are? Where do you think they're gonna make their profits? Flying business people, university profes
51 KEESJE : No good signal for the 7E7-3 IMO. Maybe NWA compared the 757-300 to the 7E7-3 in term of seat mile costs and they didn't like what they saw. NWA tend
52 Zonks : Lufthansa: It is full of lots of huge cities. Like some city way out the back of china called ChingChong (not a joke) that has 28 million people livin
53 N1120a : Um, last I checked MEX was still the most populous city in the world at 18 million. In anycase, NW loves their 747s (even old ones) and would be a goo
54 KEESJE : I think significant but not to dramatic improvements to the 757 are possible: - More efficient engines (e.g. Trent 500 version or PW geared fan). - Wi
55 N1120a : um, the 753 has the lowest seat-mile of any narrow body and is the main reason NW would want the line re-opened, so I don't think it is over stretched
56 Rwylie77 : Surely there are enough 757's out on the market available that NW can buy second hand, especially as they have made it clear they don't mind flying ol
57 Jetjack74 : This has happened before. The reopening of production line is not that uncommon. Some of the Navy's E-6A's and all of the E-6B's were factory-fresh 70
58 E7plnr : smileyjet, Who are your references in the SOC? This is quite the story! If NWA wanted more 757's would they not utilize the fleet that they currently
59 Scbriml : Boeing has closed the 757 line. They announced the end of production after spending two or three years trying to find additional sales. The 7E7-3 is t
60 Upsmd11 : So, this may be a stupid question but could NW possibly use some new 762's with the appropriate engine on it to maintain commonality? The fleet common
61 Ltbewr : Why not buy/lease used 757's? Aren't their any in the desert? If find ones with other engines, how hard is it to convert to their preference in engine
62 Deltawings : Well if so.... NWA should order the 767-400 then to.......also an aircraft line that is probably going to shut down soon DeltaWings
63 BestWestern : NW could buy the dozen unwanted Condor 753's.
64 Post contains links AV757 : The Boeing 757 has some great economics and cargo capacity for specific short to medium haul routes for their operators. To the point that right now t
65 N79969 : This is another one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of stories. Although NWA is relatively "healthy" compared to some other airlines, do
66 SNATH : I really wish this happens, as I love love love the B757. But I'm not really holding my breath. After the MD-11 line was closed, wasn't it LH that pub
67 UA744Flagship : GigNeil said: United operates an assload of Hawaiian market flights other than KOA and OGG with frequency that NW couldn't support. LOL. Thanks for th
68 Rj111 : The 7E7-3 is the new replacement aircraft in this category. Why on Earth would Boeing take the not insignificant charge of restarting the 757 line (as
69 Btblue : This sounds ridiculous. Boeing closes the 757 line down and then NWA (aparrently) want more 757's and (aparrently) want the line re-opening. Go stick
70 Dutchjet : Lots of interesting comment above: 1. If this is true, NW will want PW powered 753s....this is not about 752s and, as we discussed above, the Condor 7
71 DIA : Read through above posts, but didn't see any info regarding the number of 757s NW would be interested in attaining. Smileyjet, have any info on this?
72 ChrisNH : I, too, figured the 757-300 would be a winner on long-and-thin transatlantic routes. But I cannot see Boeing opening up the line again UNLESS Northwes
73 TOLtommy : How hard would it be to upgrade the current 752's to ETOPS? Replace the domestic 757's with A321's, and use the 752's to add overwater capacity?
74 Jetjack74 : I spoke to a 757 captain yesterday during a sit on my SAN high-value turn. He said the we're looking to use 752's on those BOS-Europe flights as well
75 Ken777 : Opening the 757 line up again is possible, but the issue comes down to is it viable. A major factor will be the people issue and the unions would have
76 Nwcoflyer : This is pure fantasy. Though I would love to see NW order more 753's, it won't happen. I am sure NW is kicking themselves because they did not order m
77 Jetjack74 : I think that is more realistic on the newer 5600 ships Well unfortunately, ships 5650-5657 were not built with the partial ETOPs provisions. They are
78 Anthsaun : Is there anyone else, besides NWA, around the world interested on buying some more B757's?
79 Gigneil : The reality is that the supply pipeline forecasts ahead for a year. If Boeing placed a new order for enough parts to build new 757s, they'd be 9 month
80 Boeing7E7 : 757 180 pax 7E7 200 pax Widebody vs. Narrow. 7E7 Better fuel Burn.
81 Sv11 : I think NWA should acquire the Condor 757-300 with RR engines and build up a fleet of RR powered 757s. This would give them additional aircraft to buy
82 N1120a : The 753 is a 220 PAX aircraft and has really low fuel burn. Its field performance is better than a 737 and that is what is so special about it. I doub
83 Gigneil : UPS has a mixed fleet of 757s. N
84 BCAInfoSys : Guys, well this may be a nice wet dream; the chances of it happening are SLIM TO NONE. As someone who has walked the 737/757 line numerous times, I ca
85 M404 : if the 753 was so good and boeing opened the line again the competition would buy some as well. I can't hardly beleive this
86 AviatorTJ : Just some things to chew on: The pending NW 7e7 orders The possibility of 747adv orders I think we know that the 7e7 for NW is a given. I think that a
87 M404 : Or how about this - NW "Gee Mr Stonecipher, we'd really like some more 757-300s but you say you can't restart a closed line, Darn. And we were such a
88 AviatorTJ : Use M404's idea to get a good deal on the 7e7. Did it ever occur that we could only be seeing one of their bargaining attempts?
89 Post contains images Scbriml : Guys, well this may be a nice wet dream; the chances of it happening are SLIM TO NONE. Slim's already left town!
90 Aa777jr : Why don't they just order some A330? aa777jr
91 Post contains images TradewindL1011 : I've noticed that American has been parking some of the ex TWA PW powered 752's. However, I counted the records and that number currently only stands
92 Gigneil : Why don't they just order some A330 What does that have to do with wanting more narrowbody twins? N
93 Tcfc424 : This is an intriguing post, definitelt stimulates thoughts about the ambitions and goals on both sides of this statement. 1. Many people here have cri
94 Whitehatter : One point regarding the PW powered 757s that AA are parking... they were built with some customisation for TW. Apparently some of the switchgear in th
95 Post contains images KEESJE : I think Boeing is not in a position to tell customers to buy anything or not, let alone a B7e7-3 iso of a 757. Someone above suggested the 7e7 will be
96 Fedex : As I understand it here in MEM, FedEx is reconsidering the 757 along with several other options since the US 737 deal never happened. IF (once again I
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