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Airtran Growth Next Year  
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

There should be alot of new Airtran flights next year. I think they have around 20 new aircraft (737 and 717) arriving next year without any retirements. Does anyone have any guesses where most of the flying will be? Will they make a bigger push into DFW in light of Delta's pullback or will they wait for a USAir vacancy? One thing for sure, once those aircraft are delivered, they won't be parked.

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

As coincidence would have it, looks like I spoke too soon.


Monday October 4, 1:01 PM EDT


ATLANTA (Dow Jones)--AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) Chief Executive Joe Leonard said the hurricanes in Florida have prompted him to trim some growth plans.

In an interview with Dow Jones Newswires, Leonard said he is considering delaying the delivery of around six Boeing Co. (BA) aircraft. AirTran has ordered 100 Boeing 737s and has taken delivery of four.

Leonard said the hurricanes affected 51% of AirTran's network because the airline has so much service to Florida. In fact, on Monday, AirTran announced it would add service to another Florida city, Sarasota, AirTran's first new city this year.

Leonard said he still plans double-digit percentage capacity growth despite a slight slowdown.

-By Elizabeth Souder, Dow Jones Newswires; 201-938-4148



User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

>>>AirTran has ordered 100 Boeing 737s and has taken delivery of four.

Last I heard, they had placed firm orders for 50, and had options for another 50. Did they convert the 50 options to firm orders (and I missed it), or did the reporter flub the facts?


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

So much for the rumor about FL aquiring ATA's 737-800s.

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4578 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Let's hope they dont end up buying the Airbus A311-100.  Laugh out loud

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00001143



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

"ATLANTA (Dow Jones)--AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) Chief Executive Joe Leonard said the hurricanes in Florida have prompted him to trim some growth plans.

In an interview with Dow Jones Newswires, Leonard said he is considering delaying the delivery of around six Boeing Co. (BA) aircraft. AirTran has ordered 100 Boeing 737s and has taken delivery of four."


Will someone please tell me how hurricanes that have already hit have any relation to trimming future growth plans. Southwest is talking about going to DFW and buying more planes in the used market to keep growing PHL and BWI at the same time. I guess the hurricane didn't hit any of their gates in Florida.

Way too cautious IMO.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

no bashing, i dont think the workd revloves around it, but jusk asking. What are the odds oof Airtran coming to CRW? Please just an answer.

User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

The reason why the hurricanes have had a relation to trimming future growth
plans at FL is because over half of AirTran's revenue comes out of one state,
Florida, as stated in another recent forum. FL needs to diversify the route
structure (ala more cities out west ABQ, SAN, SEA, SLC etc) instead of
trying to fly in and out of every city and town in Florida.



72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26540 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

Beyond the problem of FL loving FL, even B6 is hurting over the hurricaines because of their FL network. WN has the cash position to brush this off like a piece of dust, but the other 2 are barely majors and not as diversified yet. Don't worry, FL is not going 11 over this but they probably have to keep a hold on some cash for a while


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

no bashing, i dont think the workd revloves around it, but jusk asking. What are the odds oof Airtran coming to CRW? Please just an answer.

Don't know and don't care, but I must say that your posts on every single thread are reminding us of ILOVEBOI....


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

I did some digging, and the original order (announced last summer) was for 100 aircraft, consisting of 50 firm orders and options for another 50. In July of 2004, they exercised two of those options, so they have 52 on order (some of which have been delivered) and 48 remaining options.

AirTran Airways Announces Order for 100 Boeing 737 Aircraft
ORLANDO, Fla., July 1 [2003] /PRNewswire/ -- AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE:AAI), today announced at a press conference at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport that the airline has placed an order for 100 new Boeing 737-700 and -800 series aircraft - of which 50 are firm orders and 50 are options. At the same time, the airline placed an additional order for up to 10 Boeing 717 aircraft.

AirTran Airways Exercises Options for Two Boeing 737 Aircraft
ORLANDO, Fla., July 20 [2004] /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), today announced that the airline has converted purchase options to firm orders for two new Boeing 737-700 series aircraft. Delivery of the two new aircraft is scheduled to take place in the first quarter of 2006. The announcement comes only a few weeks after the low-cost airline accepted delivery of the first of 100 new Boeing 737-700 aircraft.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4319 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

no bashing, i dont think the workd revloves around it, but jusk asking. What are the odds oof Airtran coming to CRW? Please just an answer.

Hate to break it to ya, but very slim, I doubt they could fill a 717 to ATL. At least you have Independence Air.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineATL2CDG From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 296 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

Quickmover:

FL has a substantial number of flights that either originate or terminate in various Florida and other Southeastern markets. The various hurricanes of late caused the cancellations of hundreds of flights; each cancelled flight resulted in the loss of thousands of dollars each, both with on-board traffic lose and connecting traffic. Furthermore, the FL HDQ and a primary maintenance hangar in MCO received substantial damage - costs that were not originally projected the in 3Q budget. These events thus result in a substantial decrease in revenue and notable expenditure increase. Without showing a nominal operating profit, the ability to acquisition and implement into the fleet new airframes is cost-prohibitive. While AirTran may be able to fill the seats without a concern, having the money to initially bring those aircraft online is the main determining factor.

Southwest, while still reeling from the hurricanes, is not in as bad a position has it has a MUCH more diversified network and was better able to adapt to the various airport closures and such.

Kcrwflyer:

Given that CRW would likely be unable to support AirTran's requirement of a minimum of three roundtrips per day for short- to medium-haul destinations, it is quite improbable that your fair city would see AirTran service in the foreseeable future.

[Edited 2004-10-04 23:15:52]

[Edited 2004-10-04 23:17:58]


Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
User currently offlineCmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 993 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Funny you should ask. AirTran will start new service to SRQ from ATL and BWI on Dec 17th.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

Kcrwflyer,

Just not enough passengers...

Yes, I know I am a little biased, but I honestly believe they will be in St Louis before the end of 2005. Our Airport Authority has went to Atlanta, and they have came here. I really hope they didn't show them the D concourse where they would be shacked up at, that could ruin our chances alone with those horrid purple walls. Big grin


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

yeah, i guess delta does own the market. i do think they could fill a 717, as delta fills 5 crj's and they even throw a cr7 into the mix just to see if itll sell out too, it normally does. But u know me, im tryin to see something bigger than an rj. I think that 100 seats isnt too much to fill... worth a try. Indy came in with a bang.

and how many passengers do you need to have? its not gonna be all O&D. and with US about to get kicked out were gonna need something to pick up slack as they are the largest carrier.

and yes independence is nice..


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4185 times:

"The reason why the hurricanes have had a relation to trimming future growth
plans at FL is because over half of AirTran's revenue comes out of one state,
Florida, as stated in another recent forum. FL needs to diversify the route
structure (ala more cities out west ABQ, SAN, SEA, SLC etc) instead of
trying to fly in and out of every city and town in Florida."


All the more reason to add jets to diversify now.

I don't know what type of loss they are looking at, but they had close to $400 mil in cash last time I looked. If a major carrier goes away, they need to be ready to take advantage of the void.


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4103 times:

Kcrwflyer,

Notice I didn't say the market o/d can't support it, CRW itself doesn't have enough passengers to fill 3 717's a day with the current service.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 4084 times:

Just because the hurricanes are long gone, the effects will last for quite a while. Tourism is going to see a dip, even though we are in the middle of one of the yearly dips in leisure travel, as some folks will avoid Florida because of the uncertainity in regards to lodging and attractions. Add to this Florida residents probably will be too involved in picking up the pieces to want to travel anywhere. This is even going to affect the Snowbird migration this year as well.

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 4042 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Any opinions on them flying into DSM??? Maybe we will see them come back in the future.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 4019 times:

"Notice I didn't say the market o/d can't support it, CRW itself doesn't have enough passengers to fill 3 717's a day with the current service."

i dont exactly understand what you mean. Do you mean added to the current service they couldnt do it? Is that their base amount of flights? 3 717's per day?


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 4002 times:

I just mean that the market isn't large enough to fill those planes even with connecting passengers, if an additional 300 passengers a day could be created by FL, I would be completely shocked.

User currently offlineDsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 3972 times:

While Florida might be an improtant part of FL route structure, we need more ATL non stops from GPT.


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (9 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 3956 times:

I just mean that the market isn't large enough to fill those planes even with connecting passengers, if an additional 300 passengers a day could be created by FL, I would be completely shocked.

Indy did it.


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (9 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

The splash of the first LCC entry into a market will have a larger impact on passenger numbers than the second will.

Besides, what do they have on IAD-CRW? 6 dailies? Obviously they aren't filling all the seats (I think the loads were like 50%), so thats like 150 pax. I'll give CRW the benefit of the doubt and say that they'll get that LF to 80%which is 240 pax a day (thats a fairly optimistic prediction). FL w/ 3 flights would be about 350ish....

Plain and simple, the market isn't big enough.

[Edited 2004-10-05 02:28:10]

25 Kcrwflyer : ehh i guess your right. but you never know. Indys systemwide loads are 47%. in CRW, the airport director said that they were around 70% or so. I was j
26 Dayflyer : >>>AirTran has ordered 100 Boeing 737s and has taken delivery of four. Last I heard, they had placed firm orders for 50, and had options for another 5
27 Post contains images OPNLguy : Thanks.. I figured it out back in reply #10..
28 Rwylie77 : Sounds like an excuse to me - expanding into Dallas would spread the risk surely - expanding their routes away from Florida would spread their risk if
29 Flynavy : It is my understanding that the GPT flights are subsidized.
30 Post contains links Elwood64151 : Will someone please tell me how hurricanes that have already hit have any relation to trimming future growth plans. AirTran is a heavily southeast-US
31 Quickmover : I wonder if the rumblings from Southwest that they may start service from DFW will change any of FL's plans. AMR would have a major fight on their han
32 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : FlyNavy, It is my understanding that the GPT flights are subsidized. You are 100% Correct. Without the Beau Rivage, and Grand Casinos Pumping Cash to
33 Srbmod : If it wasn't for MGM-Mirage and Caesar's Entertainment, the only service GPT would have to ATL would be on CRJs and ATR-72s. Rumor has it that FL is l
34 Quickmover : I would think that if WN wasn't tied down trying to grow PHL, they would be in DFW in a second. The fact that the WN CEO is openly talking about going
35 ScottB : "If FL added service from BWI to LGA, MKE, MDW, RDU, BUF, CAK, EWR, PBI and MSP, they'd mostly stay away from WN markets while adding significant serv
36 PHLBOS : Does anyone know how the current DFW routes are working out for FL? From FL's interactive route map; DFW non-stop flights include ATL, BWI, FLL, LAS,
37 Groundstop : "MKE is already served from BWI." Not anymore. This route was dropped shortly after the end of the JetConnect contract.
38 NikonDFW : Airtran is starting DFW-TPA flights in December, or Janurary.
39 Quickmover : Are they filling the planes from DFW?
40 Kcrwflyer : I want to know if theyre filling the planes from BMI
41 LambertMan : I think that BMI actually does pretty well, it is the headquarters for State Farm Insurance and Country Insurance both of whom are very large provider
42 Kcrwflyer : how many pax can thes companys possibly put on planes? DOW Chemicals has a big operation in Charleston and all they squeezed out is an erj to iah. The
43 ScottB : "This route [MKE-BWI] was dropped shortly after the end of the JetConnect contract." Funny, I looked at the PDF timetable online to be sure, and it wa
44 ScottB : JAXpax says, "Don't know and don't care, but I must say that your posts on every single thread are reminding us of ILOVEBOI...." Is that sort of like
45 ERJ170 : Is that sort of like the way certain posters try to relate any thread to new service at RDU? Well, as the saying goes.. talk about what you know or do
46 PSU.DTW.SCE : NW now flies BWI-MKE with 2 daily CRJ's
47 LambertMan : Kcrwflyer, They have enough business to where in the past Frontier flew there. It didn't work out because of the really dumb routing BMI-OMA-DEN, and
48 BH346 : AirTran announced that Wichita loses 1 flight to ATL. Over the last year or so, it seems like FL has been reducing frequencies in the fall and then ad
49 Usairways85 : I think Airtran should figure out what they want to do in PHL. Because if they stay as they are now, i can definitely see them being somewhat run out
50 Kcrwflyer : "Kcrwflyer, They have enough business to where in the past Frontier flew there. It didn't work out because of the really dumb routing BMI-OMA-DEN, and
51 Jeffie813 : when i look at the airtran destination map, it looks like they are discontinuing the PHL - PBI non-stop. am i correct?
52 Usairways85 : No, it looks like PHL-PBI is there. It is a seasonal route though, only operates 4/5 months out of the year.
53 Jeffie813 : thanks. i just looked at it again and i realized that the line was actually connecting to PHL and not BWI. thanks!
54 Usairways85 : A few other PHL notes. ATL was operating at 6 daily and now is down to 5. Also they were opperating 4/5 daily to Boston and are now down to 3 daily. I
55 Flynavy : Newport News/Williamsburg (PHF) to DFW would compete directly with AA's ORF-DFW flight. I'd like to see it, though.
56 Vatveng : Newport News/Williamsburg (PHF) to DFW would compete directly with AA's ORF-DFW flight. I'd like to see it, though. It would also, to a lesser extent,
57 D950 : Does anyone know the breakdown between the 737-700 and 737-800 Airtran has on order?? One thing they could do to tick off WN is fly one or two 717's t
58 PHLBOS : I think Airtran should figure out what they want to do in PHL. Because if they stay as they are now, i can definitely see them being somewhat run out
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