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Bmi To Launch Heathrow-India Services  
User currently offlineWork4bmi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

bmi to launch Heathrow-India services

bmi, the UK’s second largest full-service scheduled airline, today confirmed its plans to launch services from Heathrow to Mumbai and from Heathrow to Bangalore, following the recent agreement between the UK and Indian governments to allow extra flights between the two countries.

bmi has formally confirmed its plans to the UK Department for Transport, which is now expected to require the Civil Aviation Authority to hold a hearing to allocate the 21 extra flights per week granted to British airlines.

Sir Michael Bishop, chairman of bmi, said:
“We have long campaigned for greater access to long-haul markets for bmi’s award-winning services. bmi has actively sought to bring about changes to the bilateral agreements in existence between the UK and India. We are now able to demonstrate our commitment to serving this important market.

"Our short-haul network at London Heathrow means we can offer onward connections throughout the UK and Europe, bringing the benefits of these connections with India to even more customers.

"Our attempts to introduce greater customer choice to other long haul services from Heathrow, such as to the USA, continue to be frustrated through restrictive bilateral agreements. The opportunity for an increase to the number of services in the UK to India market should provide bmi with the opportunity to meet that demand.

"We are ready, willing and able to provide these extra services and with it vigorous new competition – and

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

I seriously hope this will have no effect on the Bmi MAN longhaul services. Where are Bmi going to get the a/c?

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6707 times:

This is indeed good news - new carriers and frequencies are desperately needed on this route and bmi will be welcome.

However, its is a bit strange that bmi want to launch flights from LHR, when they can provide North American connectivity, which is a very important consideration for almost all European carriers out of India.

All of bmi's NA flights are out of MAN, so unless they get UA and AC to take the pax onwards, it might be difficult.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6698 times:

Before any of this becomes reality, they'll have to make sure they can get their hands on one of the extra frequencies that are being progressively allowed by the updated UK-India bilateral. I guess that BA and VS are also very much vying for these rights, with BA possible having the best cards because no problems with Heathrow slots and no problems with available airframes to operate the flights.

As for the 2 others, BD is likely restricted with only 3 widebodies available so if they are granted the rights, these services might very well be detrimental to their MAN longhauls. VS, on the other hand, might face a problem securing Heathrow slots for these services.



User currently offlineThowman From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

Good news.

However, I hope they are going to recruit more call centre staff to cope with the demand.

I too think it is strange they are going for LHR. Surely they'd be better making their main hub MAN and concentrating from there?

Are plans to acquire another 330?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

Good luck to them; they'll wait to see what frequencies they get before deciding on what equipment they'll get. A330s will be difficult to come by, but perhaps A340s might be considered?

Of course, the problem is, where are they going to get the slots? Will we see more domestic slots being lost, perhaps some services being cut to Leeds, Inverness, Belfast etc.?


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

I expect it to go 1xBA 1xVS 1xBD.... and same next year. The 330's were originally ordered for Heathrow services, and since BD are still losing their shirts on IAD and ORD, I expect one of these to go first (IAD)


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6566 times:


Good to hear that BMI is going to India. With a decent European network and its UK flights BMI is in a better position to capture the India-Europe market than VS, although it will face competition from BA. That being said, there is enough O&D traffic between the two countries (India-LHR) to sustain two more carriers on the route.

Another consideration they should give is if they serve India-MAN (currently no one flies BOM-MAN nonstop) not only will they have the O&D traffic but also a fair share of the India-US market(with their connecting flights to the US) which is a much stronger market with higher yields.

Work4bmi,

Any idea when the allocution of routes will take place? I'm sure VS and BA will put their best feet forward (and hope BMI stumbles) to get these frequencies.

cheers






I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently onlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

It is a shame that BA is not stepping up and adding frequencies and destinations to India (Bangalore, Hyderabad). 3 British long-haul airlines serving heathrow is a little bit too much to me.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

BA has also confirmed it wants to do Hyderabad and Bangalore. The decision rests with the UK Dept for Transport. All UK carriers are invited to apply for the new rights. I do not know when they will be awarded though.

User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6477 times:

I thought Bmi's MAN long haul programme was proving a success these days BestWestern?

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6415 times:

HUY - nope... hence the diversification away from corporate routes into leisure markets, such as LAS.

EI are having the same problem with BWI - loss making - so lets send the aircraft where we can lose less.

I expect either IAD or ORD to go if BD get access to India from Heathrow. What you may see is a bit of both (IAD 3 weekly ORD 4 weekly)





The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6372 times:

I do not mean to be argumentative, but are you sure???? They are not 'diversifying' their original business routes to IAD and ORD are still operating, and I am led to believe the ORD route is very successful. I have to say that I would be very surprised of BD started cutting their long-haul flying out of MAN. They have an excellent product. Also, have heard the Carribbean routes are selling exceptionally well, in all classes.

Are you SURE? what is your source?

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6342 times:

BD might have a better bet tendering for services to BOM and DEL ex MAN, rather than launching services from LHR to HYD and BLR, where this is a good big market already (VS used to operate to DEL from there). Slots at LHR are a problem, I would have thought the DOT's priority would be to try and diversify towards long-haul operations from regional airports that can co-exist with existing services from LHR, rather than more directly competing services from LHR.

User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

JGPH1A,

VS still does operate LHR-DEL on Air India's unused frequencies. They do not have frequencies on their own, but that just shows you how desperate they are to get the India slots.

Just to clarify, India routes are NOT leisure destinations, they are extremely high yield routes. One of the reasons, why many European airlines are asking for more slots and when the Indian government opens up its skies in winter, they mop up the frequencies. Delta and Northwest are both flying double daily to Bombay (BOM) this winter and others have upped their frequencies. Also, many carriers now want to make money on the booming Bangalore (BLR) and Hyderabad (HYD) markets. LH is already cashing in on these routes! You can expect this market to rise and rise, there's no looking back...

I still maintain that BMI will be better off if they operate to MAN and connect to the US. But if they are after the elusive LHR slots, then have at it. Either which way they'll make money hand over fist.

cheers





I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

My understanding is that there is either an implicit or explicit clause in the new bilateral that stresses the primary markets to be served by the new frequencies have to be 3rd/4th freedom markets rather than 5th/6th freedoms. In either case, the only slots that will be available at BOM (as per AAI's W'04 NAC charts) are not compatible with transatlantic connections, so de-facto the market served will be India-UK with EU connections only.

User currently offlineSTARCREW From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6157 times:

ORD is making good money, IAD is in profit as well but not as good. There is alot of belly cargo on both routes. The new routes to the Carribbean are almost fully booked already and Las Vegas is showing healthy bookings as well. The Toronto route is seasonal and operated as a codeshare with AC, again good loads this summer. The new routes are a diversification into more leisure orientated routes but not because we are loosing money ( longhaul, mainline and regional all in the black only dreaded "baby" loosing money)more because the 3rd A332 came back from SAA early and well there was nothing to do with it since LHR -US roures are still blocked.

The new routes ex LHR are subject to DOT approval. I doubt very much any aircraft will be moved from MAN. The gossip at LHR is that a pair of A340's are going to be acquired( we've been looking at these for sometime since the A332 although fantastic aircraft do lack range and have stopped us opening up routes to US west coast). The other gossip at LHR is that as well as India another new route to Johannesburg and/or Cape town (hence A340s) will be announced very shortly...



there is only ONEWORLD
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6137 times:

BMI are right in going to LHR. You'll see,

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

more because the 3rd A332 came back from SAA early and well there was nothing to do with it since LHR -US roures are still blocked.


There's PLENTY to do with it other than pout about not getting US service, which is what BD has been doing.

They could have offered flights ex-LHR to other destinations, and I'm pleased they've gotten a piece of the India pie. There's really no such thing as too many frequencies to most Indian markets.

N


User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

im surprised that they chose India. But Im soooo happy to see my fav. airline growing, and sreading its wings. good luck, PS-i hope they get the slots at LHR; im sure i remember them having troubles in the past

User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6018 times:

STARCREW, the A332s can operate UK-US west coast, no problem.

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineSTARCREW From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

more because the 3rd A332 came back from SAA early and well there was nothing to do with it since LHR -US roures are still blocked.

Surprisingly gigneil yes there was nothing to do with it! The company looked at lots of destinations but most were either already served or covered by restrictive air agreements. Also MAN is the only A330 crew base and basing one aircraft at LHR would have been expensive. It did go off and fly for the RAF for a couple of months flying RAF Brize Norton to RAF Mt Stanley in the Falkland Islands via Ascension on MOD Charter. There was talk of it going onto charter but its config was too restrictive.

In the future the main longhaul hub will be LHR make no mistake. As for slots we have 14% of slots at LHR. That won't be a problem.



there is only ONEWORLD
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5989 times:

This is great for Star Alliance travellers coming from the USA on United. There will be tons of high yield business travellers transferring from UA flights from the States and flying on to India, which is a hot business destination now. Cargo and liesure travellers shouldn't be bad either.

User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5970 times:

So why don't UA fly there themselves rather than sharing money that they don't have?

User currently offlineSTARCREW From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

HUYfan,

Yeah it can make the west coast but with cargo payload penalties so i've been told.  Smile

[Edited 2004-10-06 17:29:05]


there is only ONEWORLD
25 Post contains links BestWestern : Earlier this year Michael Bishop stated that A330 operations are at a stage where "they are at a point at which they should move into a profit if the
26 Spike : Airline companies make me laugh. One minute they are putting more seats in for revenue, the next minute they are taking more seats out for revenue. Th
27 Whitehatter : BMI will have a third Airbus free next summer. The winter Caribbean program will be completed, and Air Canada are to take up the MAN service themselve
28 Jasepl : The Times (of India)'s saying that the Indian and British governments have taken the recently re-negotiated bilateral further and will allow all Briti
29 AlanUK : Knowing that LHR-DEL is BA's second most profitable route on the network, I'm convinced they will try their hardest to get the newly authorised routes
30 Post contains links Jasepl : Here's the link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/874822.cms
31 ETStar : Does the UK Department of Transport post on their website information regarding applications made by airlines? Is this info publicly available? If so,
32 Cloud4000 : I know I've raised this issue before, but why doesn't BMI start service to India from MAN? Given the sizable number of Indian living in the Manchester
33 Whitehatter : There are carriers making good money out of MAN-India. RB is offering cheap tickets via Damascus, and Emirates do well on that route. Even Aeroflot us
34 Post contains links David_itl : ETStar, the CAA makes applications public on this page. David
35 Post contains images Work4bmi : STARCREW, Dont know who you are, but guess you for bmi Anyway, the J'burg rumour - looks good, I know for a fact that "people" have been taking busine
36 Behramjee : 1. Its highly unlikely that BMI will get the right to fly LHR-BOM/BLR as the remaining 21 slots for UK airlines will see VS getting 14 for daily BOM a
37 Post contains images Behramjee : Atwonline.com reports that BMI : 1. Has applied for 6 weekly LHR-BLR flights 2. And daily LHR-BOM flights...so 13 in total out of the 21 remaining for
38 StargoldLHR : Well I'm having to wait an extra day to get back to MAN from ORD the friday night I was is SOLLLD out. Ive done BMI's MAN-US routes four times in 12 m
39 BDSTAFF : STARCREW. I think you will find that the 'dreaded baby' is not loosing money. For example, August, it was the baby division that made the most profit
40 LHR27C : Some bmi long haul services ex-LHR would be very welcome, and it is good that they are looking beyond America. They've been campaigning for a long tim
41 WindowSeat : LHR27C, There are many many airlines on both sides of the pond that want the Bermuda II relaxed. Remember, it has everything to do with London Heathr
42 Jasepl : Even if BMI does get India slots at LHR, I doubt that they will be able to use them for US flights. So, either which way their application goes it's n
43 BestWestern : BDstaff - since you know what the board thinks...care to share the operating margin? As a BD gold customer I do wish BD the very best, but it aint wit
44 JoFMO : I think HLX and Germanwings are doing well so far, and they are both offshots of lagacy airlines.
45 BestWestern : HLX is basically Hapag Llyod - a charter company with a low cost base Remember that HLX has no aircraft, and a staff base of only 40 in Yield manageme
46 BDSTAFF : BestWestern: August was an example month, it is a regular trend. You are right, August was a peak month, record pax figures for the group. Then why di
47 Thowman : BDSTAFF As a BD silver holder, I am please that the US services are doing well. However, I am not surprised that BD Mainline is struggling. It has a g
48 BestWestern : "cant see baby failing when they make a profit, doesn't make business sense, does it?" But it doesnt make a profit..... Your CEO has stated that the B
49 BDSTAFF : BestWestern: It makes a gross operating profit. The figures do not lie. Don't forget that this financial year ends is in 2005! Thowman: The call centr
50 Post contains images Bapilot2b : Hi BDSTAFF, in regards to BMI outsourcing their call centre operations it is a company called Ventura, and has sites in Cardiff, Leeds, Rotherham and
51 Thowman : BDSTAFF Thanks for the explanation. Customer relations sympathised but never actually said what the problems were. I did offer my small call-centre -
52 Kkfla737 : What are Air India's plans for increasing Heathrow service now that the new bi-lateral is signed. It's very good news to have BMI on the UK-India sect
53 Post contains images STARCREW : THOWMAN i completely agree with you on that
54 STARCREW : BDstaff, I say dreaded baby only from an operational point of view... they work their crews very long hours and the schedule changes on a daily basis
55 BestWestern : It makes a gross operating profit Which means it loses money! Gross operating profit doesnt include any fixed costs in operating the airline, such as
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