Delta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1130 posts, RR: 3 Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7837 times:
Continental Airlines will start daily B-767-200ER service from Berlin/Tegel airport to New York/EWR on May 10th 2005! This service is due to leave Berlin/TXL airport at 11:00 am and arrived EWR at 1:30pm ! CO leaved EWR at 7:15pm and arrived TXL at 09:00am! Handling Agent in Berlin will be AHS!
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7742 times:
Great news if it's true. Talk about an untapped market! Continental really pioneers underserved European destinationsfrom NYC. I hope this one comes to pass...I've heard some great things about Berlin...and this route will make it that much easier to get to.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4685 posts, RR: 48 Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7735 times:
Good luck for them, I hope they will make the best out of a seemingly low-yield market, where everyone else has failed. Berlin has been the cementery for many intercontinental ambitions - e.g. LH, SQ, AA, TW...
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3219 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7721 times:
DL had the route authority that was acquired from PA. They weren't making money on it, even tried using WAW based FA's to fly it to help turn a profit. US based DL FA's raised a fuss, flying went back to US bases. Route closed shortly thereafter.
LUV4JFK From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7713 times:
I thought Continental was strapped with their widebodies. Where is this extra 762 coming from or what route will no longer have 762 service? It seems to me that this route should be used with a 757 to start. Anyway, how did Berlin pass the suggested Belfast & Lagos routes to get their start? I thought those would have be the next 2 cities announced for new service out of EWR.
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2801 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7624 times:
If this is true, it's great news, and I think CO has a good shot at succeeding where others have failed. EWR offers a unique combination of the huge NYC O&D market and the connecting traffic of a significant hub. This is what enables CO to serve destinations like EDI and OSL that other US majors wouldn't touch.
As for equipment, if it is in fact a 762 then it's probably due to range issues. EWR-TXL is really pushing it for a 757--it's almost 300 miles farther than OSL, for example.
TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 53 Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7586 times:
AWESOME!!! I believe the Berlin market has evolved after reunification over the last decade. More business now, national capital, etc... metro area of 4 million. I believe it will work, especially with CO's huge hub at EWR.
Airsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 38 Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7546 times:
>>>I believe the Berlin market has evolved after reunification over the last decade. More business now,
Sadly, the contrary is the case. Many of the firms based in Berlin were lured there by generous government subsidies. After the Cold War ended, Berlin´s special status as an island of Western civilisation within the very Empire of Evil ended, and so did the subsidies.
Combined with the economic downfall of the East (i.e. half of Berlin plus the hinterland), Berlin as an economic centre is not even second rate.
Berlin is home to less enterprises with 100+ employees than Mannheim with a population of 300,000. I wonder when MHG gets EWR service on CO; oh wait, our 1066 metre runway might be a bit too short
TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 53 Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7481 times:
>>Sadly, the contrary is the case. Many of the firms based in Berlin were lured there by generous government subsidies. After the Cold War ended, Berlin´s special status as an island of Western civilisation within the very Empire of Evil ended, and so did the subsidies.
Combined with the economic downfall of the East (i.e. half of Berlin plus the hinterland), Berlin as an economic centre is not even second rate.<<
I know that Berlin does not compare to Frankfurt or München (or Mannheim it seems) as far as business centres, but certainly, the development happening at Potsdamer Platz illustrates that major global businesses do have a presence there and as I understand it, it is gradually growing and improving. No? Perhaps now that Berlin is more in the center of the expanded EU, it will lead to greater growth?
AeroAussie From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7389 times:
Bravo, Continental. They've always been pioneers on over the Atlantic, opening routes that nobody else would touch. And now that they've joined Skyteam, they've become an even more attractive airline - the frequent flier benefits are boundless. I hope that they succeed in this market, and many more to come.
GodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2751 posts, RR: 18 Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7302 times:
the development happening at Potsdamer Platz illustrates that major global businesses do have a presence there and as I understand it, it is gradually growing and improving.
Well since you mentioned the Potsdamer Platz... Sony for example will soon leave Berlin and move to Munich(?).
Regarding the route:
If true I wish CO all the best and I see potencial. The problem LH had was that the A343 was too big so the 762 might be fine.
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 52 Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7262 times:
Here's hoping CO can make a go of it. No one else has been able to find the secret to turning a profit on this route despite the potential diplomatic traffic, and the increasing number of companies with offices there.
Just as an aside, I wonder if the fact that there is no major airport or hub at Berlin has something to do with it? TXL is too small and SXF is too antiquated, and THF is too much a museum piece to fit the bill. At present I would guess US-Berlin would be almost all O&D traffic. When the new Brandenburg airport is built, it has the potential for becoming a third hub (Listeining Lufthansa?) behind FRA and MUC, and could be well positioned as a gateway for Eastern Europe.
Does this make sense or am I totally off base?
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
NoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7796 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7096 times:
Just as an aside, I wonder if the fact that there is no major airport or hub at Berlin has something to do with it?
This is exactly what LH said after they failed to establish a TXL-EWR route. It's difficult to maintain international connections to a non-hub. It's basically a dead-end for passengers. However, LH offered only one flight per week in each direction, making the route unattractive for business travellers against the background that FRA provides a much more dense timetable that includes lots of one-hour-flights to TXL. Add the ICE high-speed train to that and there was no good reason to book EWR-TXL nonstop.
Economy was well accepted, but not the money-maker business class, LH said.
I'm very much hoping CO, with their smaller 762 and a more frequent schedule, will succeed.
Vanguard737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 673 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6524 times:
I understand why Berlin has been such an under-served market, but I believe Continental's move is a great indication of the progress Berlin is making since German RE-unification. I believe this will lead to more airlines into the Berlin market and help vitalize the citie's economy. Berlin is a beautiful city, rich in history, and I cannot wait to go! (Summer of '05 hopefully)
And a side question for our German friends: So what's the deal with the Palast der Republik and the Stadtschloss? Will the Stadtschloss be rebuilt? I hope it will; that orange, esbestos filled thing is an eyesore. However, does Berlin really have the money to be rebuiling Prussian palaces right now?
(Sorry everyone I know that wasn't aviation related!)
AirBerlin From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6226 times:
THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been waiting for this thread to appear for ever. Ever since LH stopped their IAD service Berlin has been without a direct connection to the states. As an American living in Berlin this has been absolutly horrible. THANK YOU CONTINENTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6200 times:
Has anyone heard or read anything officially confirming this service. If CALMSP still doesn't know (and he works at CO), I would still be a little leery. We also heard that CO is almost definitely going to start DUB, but we haven't heard anything about that either.
WGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 39 Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6174 times:
Having been there twice Vanguard737 I will tell you I fear you may be in for a dissapointment. Berlin is ugly and expansive, and the few architectural gems are seperated by large clusters of boring office and residential structures. The zoo and the cathedral at the very least are worth visiting.
I think Berlin is somewhat underserved, and Continental's flight will be a welcome addition. There is a definite need for more air service at Berlin. Developing Berlin as an air transport hub will boost the economy of the city, enabling it to make progress towards being a German center of commerce again, up there with Frankfurt, Munich et cetera. DB already provides rail connections throughout Germany but I don't think that's quite enough: there needs to be direct intercontinental connectivity by air to major world destinations before Berlin can really start to thrive as an economic center.
25 FraT: I still have my doubts. As said before, CO is using their widebodies close to the max. Then they applied for the Chinese routes for which they need to
26 Gjunnar: i'd really appreciate that step. in july e.g. more than 3900 passengers travelled from berlin to JFK or EWR, via frankfurt, paris, london, amsterdam o
27 Ctbarnes: So what's the deal with the Palast der Republik and the Stadtschloss? Will the Stadtschloss be rebuilt? If they can get all the asbestos out of it, I
28 AirBerlin: Vanguard737: The Schloss will be rebuilt despite Berlin's financial troubles. The money has already been aproved by the Senate. The Palast der Republi
29 TWFirst: Last I heard, the Stadtschloss is definitely coming down and the Palast will be rebuilt... I thought there was a fundraising campaign going on.
30 Chqdispatch: I remember flying TXL-ORD on AA years and years ago and boy, that plane was full and that inlcudes coach and business. I got 'upgraded' to business sh
31 NoUFO: First off: I was talking about LH's EWR-TXL route. How embarassing. LH served Washington D.C. - Berlin. Sorry. Ctbarnes, The asbestos had been removed
32 Pelican: That sounds like a nice opportunity to me for a trip to NY. Berlin and trans-atlantic flights is a sad story. I hope this will change soon. Berlin is
33 JoFMO: One floor is filled is with water and you can cajak on it!
34 ConcordeBoy: We also heard that CO is almost definitely going to start DUB CO has long since flown to DUB...
35 Cory6188: Sorry, I meant BFS. I have a really bad cold, feel like crap, and I'm just not with it today.
36 N1120a: I think Berlin is a beautiful, inexpensive and increadibly fun place. Also, they are probably using the 762, not for range issues, but because they th
37 AirBerlin: Has anybody heard anything about Riviera Jet. They were lookign to start service between TXL and JFK. Their website had some info but now it's blank..
38 Vanguard737: PELICAN: He never said Berlin was expensive, he said it was EXPANSIVE (as in large) Tschuss
39 STT757: As posted in an earlier thread a reliable rumor a month or so ago is that CO is set to launch 6 new Trans-Atlantic routes for '05, Bristol is Official
40 NoUFO: The money has already been aproved by the Senate. Huh? I've missed something. Where do they get 1Billion Euros? It seems that no tax money will be spe
41 FutureFO: Unforutanately LH tried thic capitol-capitol service a few years ago on the 340. Thos being TXL-IAD. Did not make that much money at all and they drop
42 Klwright69: What is the source that says that CO will start this new route?? It is certainly possible that CO will start this new route, but CO has never done ver
43 Coa764: I agree! Name your source and supply a link... The sheep on this page tend to blindly follow the flock and, well for the few of us that don't ... send
44 Mia: I just have one question, why wouldn't they open service to SXF? Isn't SXF a better airport?
45 MasseyBrown: I have my doubts about the 762 part of this rumor. As pointed out, CO doesn't have very many of them and the route, which failed to generate sufficien
46 TriStar500: Let me do some math... If 3.900 passengers were flying to NYC from BER via other hubs in the peak season month of July, it equates to 130 passengers o
47 FraT: "in july e.g. more than 3900 passengers travelled from berlin to JFK or EWR, via frankfurt, paris, london, amsterdam of course! " ...and more than 2.0
48 PHX Flyer: The Lufthansa M&M program sucks big time, especially for members who do not reside in the US. Since Continental is now a member of Skyteam, passengers
49 MasseyBrown: Tristar500 asked: Do you think that CO could operate this route profitably with only 130 passengers per flight even in a peak month? Using CO's 752 17
50 Pelican: Vanguard737+WGW2707 Sorry English can be tricky. Btw there are more sights than the Zoo and the cathedral??? (Berlin has at least 4 famous cathedrals
51 STT757: The US and Berlin City Officials broke ground yesterday on a brand new US Embassy to sit on the original site of the pre-WWII US Embassy, hopefully th
52 CB777: Delta777Jet Where did you get this info from, I work for CO at EWR and nobody is talking about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CB777
53 Mitchell Gant: I think you are more likely to see DL announce Berlin rather than CO. DL has expressed an interest in doing more international "high yield" flying, an
54 FraT: Seems as if Mitchell Gant has it right. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1770113/
55 Dazeflight: Hi Mitchell, the problem is, Berlin is definitely no high-yield market... in terms of high-yield pax Stuttgart or Hamburg have definitely more to offe
56 Delta777Jet: In the german press was following articel: Delta Airlines plans B-767-300ER nonstop service from Berlin/Tegel to New York`s JFK airport! Maybe the inf