LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3333 times:
Oh dear! VASP was one of those carriers that always looked like it pulled through by the skin of its teeth, but the end may well be in sight for them. From what I know Canhedo was bad news from the start. How different were VASP beforehand?
As an Argentine, I'm curious, how is Brazil's economy doing now? I know it suffered some negative growth last year, but are things improving as they are in Argentina or not at all? And to what extent do you think VASP and VARIG owe their critical financial conditions to the economy? Or more to the (mis)management of the airlines themselves?
P.S. Without distracting too much attention from VASP, do VARIG look like they'll live past October 15?
EMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 9 Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3263 times:
Bankruptcy in Brazil mean liquidation.
Before Canhedo, VP was a public company. So, ....
However, since the beginning, when it was privatized, things started bad for VP.
01 - Nobody knows why, but Canhedo was the only one interested in VP.
02 - He (Canhedo) is a very close friend of the guy who was in charge of the government in São Paulo at that time.
I have friends who worked for VP and they told me that in the 80s and 90s when aviation was doing well all over the world, VP was also doing well. However, money were largely deviated from the company.
Every single possibility of deviating money was used. Therefore, VP present situation is not a consequence of the economy downturn, but mainly a consequence of a bad administration.
VP sky became even blacker when GOL started its operations, after all they are the direct competitor of VP.
Regarding to your question about RG, I think they are doing better now. However, since they have huge debts everything they earn now is used to pay their creditors, what causes serious problem to their cash flow.
In general, I think things are getting better in Brazil. See TAM and GOL examples. TAM showed revenues in the first semmester and I do think they will end the year in a blue sky. The same applyes for GOL.
123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 742 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 3143 times:
Poor employees.... they are a pitty because what do they have to do with the terrible management?
Just as a reminder to you: Vasp purchased a large stake of LAB, then did real financial carnage with them until a Bolivian businessman purchased back the stakes VP purchased, and now, LAB is running fine - inspite of old debts.
Pdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1044 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2968 times:
Brazil's economy is doing rather well and has recovered smartly from the anemic growth levels of 2002/2003. Annualized GDP growth through June 30, 2004 was a blistering 5.7%, the fastest since 1996. In fact, the Central Bank is slowly raising short-term interest rates, 25 basis-points at a time, to keep a lid on potential inflation.
Brazil's economic management stands in stark contrast to Argentina's. Lula accepted fiscal restraint was necessary and even recently increased the required 'primary fiscal surplus' (federal receipts, less expenses excluding debt service) from 4.25% of GDP to 4.50% of GDP. These measures have increased investor confidence in Brazil, with corresponding improvements in its sovereign credit rating.
Following the success of Lula's political party in the municipal elections last Sunday, he now needs to focus on microeconomic reforms, such as labor market flexibility, further deregulation of the energy and power markets, and greater incentives for private sector investment.
JJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 16 Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 2881 times:
Brazilian Government just announced that is giving VP 6 months to present a re-structure plan. This re-structure plan also includes the payment of all Governmental debits.
VASP concession contract is expiring next 10TH OCT as so as VARIG´s. Both are having the same dead-line.
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2834 times:
Yes. In the late '90s, ALL four carriers were flying regularly to Europe. RG with 747s, 767s, DC-10s and MD-11s, JJ with A330s, TR with 767s and VP with MD-11s. Besides JJ's service to CDG, RG is the only one still linking Europe with Brazil.
Pzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1385 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
I am sure AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ served Zurich as a I read it in its inflight magazine when I flew them in 2001.
Indeed, it was quite a feat to have 4 Brazilian airlines flying to Europe. In Mexico we barely have 5 airlines flying to US despite our long border and closeness (AM, MX, 6A, JR, ZE) I am not incluiding Aerolitoral or Aerocaribe as they are AM and MX subsidiaries.
Link between Bhutan and Monterrey is simple. I live in MTY and I went to Bhutan last January (of course, flying with Druk Air). Fascinating country, fascinating airline, fascinating approach to PBH.
EMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 2678 times:
I don't think VP stops flying will help RG. Passengers flying VP are most likely to move to GOL.
For only a few months JJ flew to Zurich and Frankfurt. Both destinations initiated at the same time. Zurich was a continuation of the FRA flight.
If I am not wrong this flight started when Swissair desappeared. However, high competition from RG and LH (putting fares down), September 11th terrorist attacks, and world economy downturn made JJ cancel this flight very quick. What, in my opinion, was a correct decision.
By this time JJ also started a flight to MVD, which was also canceled due to RG and Pluna competition.
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2656 times:
Si, se puede decir que soy porteño, pero tambien soy muchas cosas, entre ellos vasco. ¿Sos mejicano?
By this time JJ also started a flight to MVD, which was also canceled due to RG and Pluna competition.
Which has since been restarted by PZ, has it not? In your opinion, do you think JJ are making the most use of their A330s, or did they simply join the fleet at a bad time? Besides their existing routes, is there NO way they could be making money?
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
VP used their A300s mainly from GIG/GRU to the Nordeste (VP is 100% domestic). Last year, I chose VP from GIG-SSA, expecting a comfortable A300, as it said on the ticket. Turned out to be an old, ear-splittingly noisy 737-200 as the A300 went "technical".
VP still have the 3 A300s in the fleet dating from 1982 (PP-SNL, SNM, SNN). SNL has been conspicuously absent some time so has probably been cannibalised. The other two were flying earlier this year, but I'm not sure if they still are--maybe someone in Brazil could confirm.
If VP is running out of money, I'd say expect to see the A300s and 737-300s grounded first, followed by the rest. If you're a newcomer to Brazil, I'd try and stay clear of VP. Last year they were bad enough; don't risk it when you have alternative options like GOL and TAM available (both excellent).
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2555 times:
LVZXV: Brazil's economy is doing far better than Argentina. Check reply by Pdpsol (well done!).
Indeed, TAM and GOL are already on the blue, buying new aircrafts and adding routes to their network. GOL started flying to four new destinations in South and Southeast Brazil, effective 15 October: JOI, UDI, CXJ and IGU - this on top of their two new routes to North Brazil, effective Septeber: PVH, RBR. It will start its first international route, to EZE from December. GOL is now the largest operator of 737 next generation in Latin America. (Also for you info, ILC has a stake of 20% in GOL, which had sucessfully launched its IPO in June this year!).
TAM will start flying from GIG to SCL in November and from GRU to LIM in March/05.
Also agree that passengers flying VP will migrate to GOL. This has been confirmed by a report released yesterday by the Brazilian Civil Aviation Authority (DAC): In September VP market share fell from 9.9 to 8.6% of te Brazilian domestic market. GOL increased its share from 20.3 to 22%. TAM remains the leader with 35.6%, RG is second with 31.6% of the domestic market. Overall the domestic market in Brazil in September had a growth of 11.5%, and of 7% in the international market.
LVZXV: for your info, all VP 737-200s were grounded by DAC and are not allowed to operate anymore. No doubt: if you can choose, try flying TAM or GOL - avoid VP!
RG had its license renewed by DAC for another 6 moths, I'm not sure whether it can survive more than that without state aid - but the Brazilian government seems ready to rescue RG. Many options are under study, but no result as yet. The merger with TAM has been abandoned. Another solution under consideration is to allow foreign investors to take a bigger stake in RG, backed by a loan from the Brazilian Development Bank. TP and LAN demonstrated interest (note that TP and RG will start codesharing from November, and both airlines have synergies. Indeed, TP CEO Mr. Fernando Pinto, was the former CEO of RG some years ago!).
[Edited 2004-10-09 17:35:45]
25 Jeff32: LVZXV: for your info, all VP 737-200s were grounded by DAC and are not allowed to operate anymore. No doubt: if you can choose, try flying TAM or GOL
26 LVZXV: Welkom Hardiwv! Thanks for your detailed and informative post. IGU will make a lot of money for GOL, so too will EZE which they plan to launch in a we
27 Hardiwv: LVZXV and Jeff32: thanks for the remark on VP 737-200 fleet! No doubt, GOL service to EZE to start from December will put even more pressure on the ot
28 LVZXV: Hardiwv: No wonder that all other internatinal airlines operating the leg GRU-EZE have dropped their service (e.g. LH, LX, AC, KLM - now codesharing w
29 Hardiwv: LVZXV: I am based in AMS, but fly regularly on the route AMS-GRU on business and leasure. I was also on assignment in BSB from 1996 until 2001, so I c
30 Hardiwv: LVZXV: But not sure whether BA will continue to operate GRU-EZE for much longer. Probably they will consider LHR-EZE with direct flights instead. Same
31 LVZXV: Hardiwv: BA served EZE directly from 1992-2003. The Argentine economic crisis forced many airlines to rethink that route--AC, AM, DL, KL, MX and QF su
32 Hardiwv: ZXV, You're right, since this year, with the economic recovery of Argentina, many airlines are coming back to serve EZE directly, with the exception o
33 LVZXV: LX are a basket case, and as you say, their withdrawal from EZE is somewhat anomalous. AZ has always flown a mix FCO-EZE-FCO, MXP-EZE-MXP, FCO-EZE-MXP
34 Hardiwv: ZXV: SA withdrew from EZE not only because of the Argentine crisis, but mainly because of its wider codeshare agreement with RG. So it makes more sens
35 Kanebear: It'd be wonderful to see EZE-LHR direct and would probably save BA a ton on crew layovers. BA has to have multiple crews in South America to operate t
36 Hardiwv: Kanebear: Agree, but BA also rotate their crew on the route GRU-GIG. About the food better out of EZE, probably is the nice Argentine steak Note that
37 LVZXV: Hardiwv: I first saw MH at EZE in early January 2003. They must have begun their KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE in 2002 or even 2001. I guess they chose to weather t
38 EMB195ER: Hey guys, I would like to know if someone here knows why JJ and AF are dropping the codeshare? Any idea? Hugs, EMB195ER
39 Hardiwv: I really don't know why. But I know that TAM improved considerably its service to CDG (it is one of the few airlines offering lie-flat seat on interco
40 EMB195ER: Hardwv, Adding a point to your comment: last July I was in Paris and a friend told me that TAM was bringing to its won responsability the check in ope
41 Hardiwv: EMB195ER: Again, agree with you. In my opinion, this "bigger thing" in TAM's mind is the Oneworld Alliance! how do you feel? If you put the pieces tog
42 DBCooper: While TAM may be a natural fit for oneworld, they will need to bulk up operations at both GRU and GIG to make it more effective for their potential pa
43 Dellatorre: Just wanna to clarify the destinations flown by the 4 Brazilian Airlines to Europe back in the late 90's. Varig was flying to: Amsterdam, Frankfurt, P
44 EddieDude: VP also flew to MEX at some point or is it my imagination?