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Vasp - Close To Bankruptcy  
User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

VP situation is really critical:

According to Brazilian newspapers GE asked VP bankruptcy yesterday in São Paulo.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u89644.shtml

Besides, VP is fireing pilots, flight attendants and ground staff. They say that since some of their aircraft are grounded they have to reduce the number of employees.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u89637.shtml

Infraero (Brazilian Airports Administrator) will start charging VP airport fees in a daily basis from next October 13th.



66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3805 times:

What does bankruptcy mean in Brazil, in this case? Reorganization or shutdown/liquidation?

- DBC


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Oh dear! VASP was one of those carriers that always looked like it pulled through by the skin of its teeth, but the end may well be in sight for them. From what I know Canhedo was bad news from the start. How different were VASP beforehand?

As an Argentine, I'm curious, how is Brazil's economy doing now? I know it suffered some negative growth last year, but are things improving as they are in Argentina or not at all? And to what extent do you think VASP and VARIG owe their critical financial conditions to the economy? Or more to the (mis)management of the airlines themselves?

Regards,

ZXV

P.S. Without distracting too much attention from VASP, do VARIG look like they'll live past October 15?




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3732 times:

DBC,

Bankruptcy in Brazil mean liquidation.

LXV,

Before Canhedo, VP was a public company. So, ....

However, since the beginning, when it was privatized, things started bad for VP.

01 - Nobody knows why, but Canhedo was the only one interested in VP.

02 - He (Canhedo) is a very close friend of the guy who was in charge of the government in São Paulo at that time.

I have friends who worked for VP and they told me that in the 80s and 90s when aviation was doing well all over the world, VP was also doing well. However, money were largely deviated from the company.

Every single possibility of deviating money was used. Therefore, VP present situation is not a consequence of the economy downturn, but mainly a consequence of a bad administration.

VP sky became even blacker when GOL started its operations, after all they are the direct competitor of VP.

Regarding to your question about RG, I think they are doing better now. However, since they have huge debts everything they earn now is used to pay their creditors, what causes serious problem to their cash flow.

In general, I think things are getting better in Brazil. See TAM and GOL examples. TAM showed revenues in the first semmester and I do think they will end the year in a blue sky. The same applyes for GOL.

Regards,

EMB195ER


User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Poor employees.... they are a pitty because what do they have to do with the terrible management?

Just as a reminder to you: Vasp purchased a large stake of LAB, then did real financial carnage with them until a Bolivian businessman purchased back the stakes VP purchased, and now, LAB is running fine - inspite of old debts.





User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3582 times:

When I was at CGH last week, I noticed a VP B733 parked on the ramp outside the RG hangar. I was told it had been seized for non-payment of airport fees.

I also noticed a VP A300 and B732 parked next to some derelict aircraft at GRU. The A300 looked reasonably intact, but the B732 was missing both engines.

I'll look around some more next week when I fly through GRU again.


- DBC


User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

They used to fly 3 A300, however just one has been flying lately. They used the other two as part suppliers.

This week will be decisive to VP, a Brazilian ministry said today if they don't pay some of their debts until Friday and show a reestructuring programme they will lose their rights to fly.

Hugs,

EMB195ER


User currently offlineJCS From Netherlands, joined Jun 2004, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

Does anyone know which aircraft at GRU is missing both engines?

Johannes


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

LVZXV,

Brazil's economy is doing rather well and has recovered smartly from the anemic growth levels of 2002/2003. Annualized GDP growth through June 30, 2004 was a blistering 5.7%, the fastest since 1996. In fact, the Central Bank is slowly raising short-term interest rates, 25 basis-points at a time, to keep a lid on potential inflation.

Brazil's economic management stands in stark contrast to Argentina's. Lula accepted fiscal restraint was necessary and even recently increased the required 'primary fiscal surplus' (federal receipts, less expenses excluding debt service) from 4.25% of GDP to 4.50% of GDP. These measures have increased investor confidence in Brazil, with corresponding improvements in its sovereign credit rating.

Following the success of Lula's political party in the municipal elections last Sunday, he now needs to focus on microeconomic reforms, such as labor market flexibility, further deregulation of the energy and power markets, and greater incentives for private sector investment.

cheers,

PDPsol


User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

PP-SOT is the impounded B733 at CGH, if memory serves correctly. I will try and see which B732 it is at GRU minus the engines when I pass through on Tuesday.


- DBC


User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Brazilian Government just announced that is giving VP 6 months to present a re-structure plan. This re-structure plan also includes the payment of all Governmental debits.
VASP concession contract is expiring next 10TH OCT as so as VARIG´s. Both are having the same dead-line.


User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

Correct me if I am wrong, but was there a moment when 4 Brazilian airlines were flying to Europe?

RG for sure
JJ for sure
VP may be?
Transbrasil???

Cheers

PZ



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Pzurita1:

Yes. In the late '90s, ALL four carriers were flying regularly to Europe. RG with 747s, 767s, DC-10s and MD-11s, JJ with A330s, TR with 767s and VP with MD-11s. Besides JJ's service to CDG, RG is the only one still linking Europe with Brazil.

Regards,

ZXV





How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently onlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3045 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Here is another article discussing Vasp's future. Hope this airline stays afloat and gets some new management.
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh69239_2004-10-07_22-05-37_n07266339_newsml


User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3210 times:

LVZXV:

Do you remember what were JJ, VP and Transbrasil destinations in Europe during those good days?

PZ




Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3202 times:

Would it help RG if VP ends operation?

User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Pzurita1 (what's the link with Monterrey & Bhutan?!):

JJ

I'm unaware of JJ serving any European destination besides CDG. Maybe JJMNGR or EMB195ER could confirm...

TR

LGW
ZRH?

VP

ATH (briefly; poor demand)
BCN
BRU
FRA
ZRH

(Notice they never went head-to-head with RG...)

There weren't SO many services to Europe, but it was quite a feat that a not-so-developed country like Brazil had 4 airlines serving the continent at one time.

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

ZXVLV,

I am sure AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ served Zurich as a I read it in its inflight magazine when I flew them in 2001.

Indeed, it was quite a feat to have 4 Brazilian airlines flying to Europe. In Mexico we barely have 5 airlines flying to US despite our long border and closeness (AM, MX, 6A, JR, ZE) I am not incluiding Aerolitoral or Aerocaribe as they are AM and MX subsidiaries.

Link between Bhutan and Monterrey is simple. I live in MTY and I went to Bhutan last January (of course, flying with Druk Air). Fascinating country, fascinating airline, fascinating approach to PBH.

Saludos. Sos porteño?

PZ



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Jo,

I don't think VP stops flying will help RG. Passengers flying VP are most likely to move to GOL.

Pzurita1,

For only a few months JJ flew to Zurich and Frankfurt. Both destinations initiated at the same time. Zurich was a continuation of the FRA flight.

If I am not wrong this flight started when Swissair desappeared. However, high competition from RG and LH (putting fares down), September 11th terrorist attacks, and world economy downturn made JJ cancel this flight very quick. What, in my opinion, was a correct decision.

By this time JJ also started a flight to MVD, which was also canceled due to RG and Pluna competition.

Hugs,

EMB195ER


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

Pzurita1:

Si, se puede decir que soy porteño, pero tambien soy muchas cosas, entre ellos vasco. ¿Sos mejicano?

EMB195ER:

By this time JJ also started a flight to MVD, which was also canceled due to RG and Pluna competition.

Which has since been restarted by PZ, has it not? In your opinion, do you think JJ are making the most use of their A330s, or did they simply join the fleet at a bad time? Besides their existing routes, is there NO way they could be making money?

Saludos,

ZXV






How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

ZXV,

This flight operated by PZ is not the same, because the JJ flight was a direct one from GRU to MVD, while the PZ flight is via ASU.

In my opinion their A330s joined the fleet in a bad moment, this is why they were (or still are???) flying with some Middle East airlines.

However, someone told me that JJ wasn't able to put off the delivery of those aircraft.

I think there is no routes in Brazil for such a big aircraft. RG flies some of this MD-11s and B772 to MAO, but mainly due to belly cargo.

Hugs,

EMB195ER


User currently onlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6607 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

TR flew to AMS, VIE, LGW and possibly more European desitnations.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

RG also flies MD-11s GIG-BSB; was in BSB 2 weeks ago and saw one there in the evening with a different one there in the morning.

JJ has 4 A-330s flying for Etihad. The other 5 fly from GRU to MIA and CDG. Only domestic legs flown by JJ with the 330 are a daily GRU-REC and a 1/week GRU-SSA which continues on to MIA.

I haven't seen the VP A-300s flying (I am a newcomer to Brasil) . When they were operational, where did they operate them?


- DBC


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

DBCooper:

VP used their A300s mainly from GIG/GRU to the Nordeste (VP is 100% domestic). Last year, I chose VP from GIG-SSA, expecting a comfortable A300, as it said on the ticket. Turned out to be an old, ear-splittingly noisy 737-200 as the A300 went "technical".
VP still have the 3 A300s in the fleet dating from 1982 (PP-SNL, SNM, SNN). SNL has been conspicuously absent some time so has probably been cannibalised. The other two were flying earlier this year, but I'm not sure if they still are--maybe someone in Brazil could confirm.
If VP is running out of money, I'd say expect to see the A300s and 737-300s grounded first, followed by the rest. If you're a newcomer to Brazil, I'd try and stay clear of VP. Last year they were bad enough; don't risk it when you have alternative options like GOL and TAM available (both excellent).

Take care,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

LVZXV: Brazil's economy is doing far better than Argentina. Check reply by Pdpsol (well done!).

Indeed, TAM and GOL are already on the blue, buying new aircrafts and adding routes to their network. GOL started flying to four new destinations in South and Southeast Brazil, effective 15 October: JOI, UDI, CXJ and IGU - this on top of their two new routes to North Brazil, effective Septeber: PVH, RBR. It will start its first international route, to EZE from December. GOL is now the largest operator of 737 next generation in Latin America. (Also for you info, ILC has a stake of 20% in GOL, which had sucessfully launched its IPO in June this year!).

TAM will start flying from GIG to SCL in November and from GRU to LIM in March/05.

Also agree that passengers flying VP will migrate to GOL. This has been confirmed by a report released yesterday by the Brazilian Civil Aviation Authority (DAC): In September VP market share fell from 9.9 to 8.6% of te Brazilian domestic market. GOL increased its share from 20.3 to 22%. TAM remains the leader with 35.6%, RG is second with 31.6% of the domestic market. Overall the domestic market in Brazil in September had a growth of 11.5%, and of 7% in the international market.

LVZXV: for your info, all VP 737-200s were grounded by DAC and are not allowed to operate anymore. No doubt: if you can choose, try flying TAM or GOL - avoid VP!

RG had its license renewed by DAC for another 6 moths, I'm not sure whether it can survive more than that without state aid - but the Brazilian government seems ready to rescue RG. Many options are under study, but no result as yet. The merger with TAM has been abandoned. Another solution under consideration is to allow foreign investors to take a bigger stake in RG, backed by a loan from the Brazilian Development Bank. TP and LAN demonstrated interest (note that TP and RG will start codesharing from November, and both airlines have synergies. Indeed, TP CEO Mr. Fernando Pinto, was the former CEO of RG some years ago!).


[Edited 2004-10-09 17:35:45]

25 Jeff32 : LVZXV: for your info, all VP 737-200s were grounded by DAC and are not allowed to operate anymore. No doubt: if you can choose, try flying TAM or GOL
26 LVZXV : Welkom Hardiwv! Thanks for your detailed and informative post. IGU will make a lot of money for GOL, so too will EZE which they plan to launch in a we
27 Hardiwv : LVZXV and Jeff32: thanks for the remark on VP 737-200 fleet! No doubt, GOL service to EZE to start from December will put even more pressure on the ot
28 LVZXV : Hardiwv: No wonder that all other internatinal airlines operating the leg GRU-EZE have dropped their service (e.g. LH, LX, AC, KLM - now codesharing w
29 Hardiwv : LVZXV: I am based in AMS, but fly regularly on the route AMS-GRU on business and leasure. I was also on assignment in BSB from 1996 until 2001, so I c
30 Hardiwv : LVZXV: But not sure whether BA will continue to operate GRU-EZE for much longer. Probably they will consider LHR-EZE with direct flights instead. Same
31 LVZXV : Hardiwv: BA served EZE directly from 1992-2003. The Argentine economic crisis forced many airlines to rethink that route--AC, AM, DL, KL, MX and QF su
32 Hardiwv : ZXV, You're right, since this year, with the economic recovery of Argentina, many airlines are coming back to serve EZE directly, with the exception o
33 LVZXV : LX are a basket case, and as you say, their withdrawal from EZE is somewhat anomalous. AZ has always flown a mix FCO-EZE-FCO, MXP-EZE-MXP, FCO-EZE-MXP
34 Hardiwv : ZXV: SA withdrew from EZE not only because of the Argentine crisis, but mainly because of its wider codeshare agreement with RG. So it makes more sens
35 Post contains images Kanebear : It'd be wonderful to see EZE-LHR direct and would probably save BA a ton on crew layovers. BA has to have multiple crews in South America to operate t
36 Post contains images Hardiwv : Kanebear: Agree, but BA also rotate their crew on the route GRU-GIG. About the food better out of EZE, probably is the nice Argentine steak Note that
37 LVZXV : Hardiwv: I first saw MH at EZE in early January 2003. They must have begun their KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE in 2002 or even 2001. I guess they chose to weather t
38 EMB195ER : Hey guys, I would like to know if someone here knows why JJ and AF are dropping the codeshare? Any idea? Hugs, EMB195ER
39 Hardiwv : I really don't know why. But I know that TAM improved considerably its service to CDG (it is one of the few airlines offering lie-flat seat on interco
40 EMB195ER : Hardwv, Adding a point to your comment: last July I was in Paris and a friend told me that TAM was bringing to its won responsability the check in ope
41 Post contains images Hardiwv : EMB195ER: Again, agree with you. In my opinion, this "bigger thing" in TAM's mind is the Oneworld Alliance! how do you feel? If you put the pieces tog
42 DBCooper : While TAM may be a natural fit for oneworld, they will need to bulk up operations at both GRU and GIG to make it more effective for their potential pa
43 Dellatorre : Just wanna to clarify the destinations flown by the 4 Brazilian Airlines to Europe back in the late 90's. Varig was flying to: Amsterdam, Frankfurt, P
44 EddieDude : VP also flew to MEX at some point or is it my imagination?
45 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : Maybe they need to enable the rocket assist on more planes View Large View MediumPhoto © M.Oertle
46 EMB195ER : Hardi, I think we concluded the same points about JJ. There is just one issue that I forgot to mention. Air France has a partnership with TAM at its m
47 Hardiwv : VP also had flights to Athens at some time in the past (around 1991-1992)!
48 Hardiwv : Forgot to mention: and VP had flights to Casablanca (via MAD?)
49 Fokker50 : Well, I think that the VASP critical situation has been seemed by the Brazilian people for long time ago, this is not a big notice, for the Brazilian
50 757MDE : Fokker 50, Mergers are not always the way to do things, remember Summa. I don't think old planes are truble either if proper maintenance is given to t
51 Fokker50 : 757MDE: I'm not talking for the aliances as you already siad SUMMA. that was a financial alliance, I'm talking about the fusion, to create a new airli
52 Hardiwv : 757MDE: If Canhedo goes out of the VP it closes in the next day! Well, i doubt VP will make it for more than 6 months...possibly VP will have the same
53 757MDE : If things look like that then yes, I also think it'd be better for VASP to be absorbed into another airline... time is running out and there are lots
54 Post contains images Hardiwv : No doubt. If you have limited resources, you have to decide where to put your money: VP or RG - the Brazilian government will need to make an ultimate
55 EMB195ER : Fokker, NOBODY in Brazil would like to merge with VP while Wagner Canhedo is in charge of the company. Everyone knows he is more interested on his pri
56 DBCooper : The 737 @ GRU minus both engines is SMC. The A-300 is SNM. That is as of this morning when I taxiied by on AA 963. - DBC
57 Post contains images Marambio : Hello gentlemen, If VP goes down, it will be a sad day for all Latin American aviation. Some friends of mine flew a charter from EZE to Rio das Pedras
58 Post contains images Hardiwv : Marambio: Thanks for the insights. However, I will have to disagree with you. For me, if VP goes down it will make a big service to the aviation indus
59 Marambio : That's not very nice coming for you! So I assume IB, AF, LH would also stop flying to EZE and GRU, right? ...and dont stop reading reports of deportat
60 Hardiwv : "Suspicious"? What do you mean? I think you should visit Malaysia.... Sleep well...good night! Hardi
61 Marambio : "Suspicious"? What do you mean? I think you should visit Malaysia.... Sleep well...good night! Hardi I mean that MH of course didn't publish a press r
62 LVZXV : Hardiwv: I don't see any reason as to why Marambio would be picking on MH, Malaysia or "illegal immigrants for discriminatory purposes". If it happens
63 Post contains images Hardiwv : LVZXV : Well, I wont go further with this discussion. But I must say that Marambio statement was very unfortunate, to say the least. It's based on " s
64 Hardiwv : INFRAERO will start charging VP in a daily basis tomorrow. INFRAERO managers are pissed off with VP because they are not transfering passengers fees t
65 Post contains images EMB195ER : Some updates: 01 - At the beginning of the week, it was said in the media that VP emploeeys would be travelling to BSB to talk to some ministers about
66 Hardiwv : EMB195ER: Forgot the election issue. So all decisions will only come after the elections. And after mayors are elected, VP cannot expect much aid of t
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