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Italian ATC Failure - Compensation To Airlines?  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Is there any way for airlines to obtain compensation for the disruption and delays caused by the Italian ATC failure? I ask because a number of airlines' flights have been delayed, including - but obviously not limited to - FR's. For example:

#4194 delayed 1 hour 50 minutes;
#5705 delayed 2 hours;
#3595 delayed 3 hours 5 minutes;
#9623 delayed 3 hours;
#9243 delayed 7 HOURS 20 MINS (!);
#4273 delayed 1 hour 30 minutes;
#4231 delayed 1 hour 55 minutes;
#742 delayed 2 hours 55 minutes;
#9615 delayed 2 hours 5 minutes;
#9624 delayed 2 hours 50 minutes;
#4274 delayed 2 hours;
#4152 delayed 2 hours 10 minutes;
#3596 delayed 3 hours 5 minutes;
#5706 delayed 1 hour 45 minutes;

And MANY others - including SEVERAL of about 1 hour. None of these delays would have occurred but for the Italian ATC failure, as shown by 94% of FR's flights arriving ontime (defined as within 15 minutes) and 99% within an hour.

Other airlines have also obviously been affected.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

FR... they don't deserve anything...  Smile they are lucky to be allowed to fly within 150miles of an AZ base....

No doubt AZ will get about €980m in compensation for this terrible mishap, think of all those phantom bookings made by the government for 'troop movements' that never happed.. Think of all those pilots who's chauffers had to wait in FCO for their them... think of all the cabin crew who have to get paid overtime, as they live in Rome, and work in Milano.... Think of the what the delays will do to AZ's future fleet orders on their immensely profitable long haul network...

My heart bleeds for them....

and now FR want a discount... FR should pay extra - clogging up bergamo like that!

 Smile



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

i dont have much input to give...... compensating airlines for ATC or communications failure isnt standard procedure. FR should be treated no different.
beswestern.... i like your method of writing, hahahaha very 'in there'...... although i cant say i agree or disagree with you, i like it anyway.
pe@rson.... sorry i cant answer your question. i dont know how they would obtain compensation, but i dont think FR should get any either.



eP007
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

I think it would be very fair and just for ANY airline disadvantaged by the ATC failure to receive compensation for any additional cost involved and for the inconvenience. Otherwise it could happen daily without any redress!


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBlueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2858 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

My taxi from LHR to LGW broke down last week......should I sue him too?

Bloody stupid claim culture.....only winners are lawyers.

These things HAPPEN; get over it!!

Shamu with Bee in bonnet



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

I think they should get compensated. Why? If your taxi breaks down you can just call another one. You cannot do this if ATC fails. The airlines need ATC- and also pay for it- they should also have the possibility to get money from them if they mess it up!

And BTW, this has nothing to do with stupid claim culture. It has to do with fairness.
You would think the same way if you would run a company that relies on a certain service- and you would sue them if they would not work well.

Regards,
RJ100

P.S.: Don't take it personal  Big grin



none
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

If your taxi breaks down you can just call another one. You cannot do this if ATC fails. The airlines need ATC- and also pay for it- they should also have the possibility to get money from them if they mess it up!"

Exactly! I wonder how much it would cost for that 7 hour 20 minute delay - let alone the huge inconvenience! ATC is essential in air travel and there should be systems in place in case the main system messes up. If not, airlines disadvantaged to a large extent should be compensated for the costs incurred by them and for the inconvenience caused.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1816 times:

and now FR want a discount... FR should pay extra - clogging up bergamo like that!

 Big thumbs up

OK, Mr Pe@rson, now the battle begins.. what do you say in your defendence to BestWestern?? ..  Big thumbs up


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1812 times:

I don't say anything because he's messing about.  Smile The reason for the failure is probably the inefficiency of AZ - all those delays mounting up throughout the day so that the ATC reaches breaking point around teatime.  Wink/being sarcastic


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1808 times:

The reason for the failure is probably the inefficiency of AZ

 Big thumbs up This is Mr Pe@rson at original! I might even agree a little (only a little though) with you here, although I, as you are well aware, as heterodox economist shun the concept of efficiency Big grin ..


AZ is really a messed-up airline (took them four times, the best was when I ordered a gin tonic the FA had to ask the supervisor whether I am allowed, what took 20 min, 3 times ID showing and an annoyed face of here.. who cares)... Big grin

Well...


By the way Mr Pe@rson.. aren't you supposed to attend your class this minute?? Big grin Tsss...

[Edited 2004-10-08 11:10:27]

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1796 times:

Nah, got another 20 minutes, Mr. N. BTW, are you still in London?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1751 times:

BTW, are you still in London?

Nops, graduated, but coming back for a visit beginning of November.. will email you before..



User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1747 times:

Ahhh okie doke.

'I, as you are well aware, as heterodox economist shun the concept of efficiency.'

LOL that's as likely as thinking the Pope's gay.  Wink/being sarcastic I bet you just play devil's advocate just for the fun of it - hell, I do, except when it comes to a certain airline.  Laugh out loud



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Do you sue the electricity board if there is a power cut? Do you sue the baggage handling companies if their employees go on strike and cause massive delays? Do you sue the water companies if there is too much limescale in the water and your washing machine breaks down? Do you sue Microsoft if Windows causes your computer to crash?

Whilst I am sure that the lawyers smell cash and would love to start litigation, I think it is higly unlikely that the airlines are entitled to compensation by failure of the ATC systems. Even if they did, who (apart from the lawyers) would be the winners? At the end of the day if compensation is paid, this will be collected perhaps by higher charges for handling air traffic?




MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

LOL that's as likely as thinking the Pope's gay. I bet you just play devil's advocate just for the fun of it - hell, I do, except when it comes to a certain airline.

Pe@rson, be prepared for a pub crawl with me, while starting the LCC issue in the beginning and ending up talking about women after the xxx pint..  Big thumbs up but take care.. I have had a long training of different spirits all over the globe.. so you will end up below the table  Big thumbs up


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1737 times:

Nah, not likely, Mr N. You'll be on the floor after your first pint and after the completion of my first argument. LOL.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1730 times:

Nah, not likely, Mr N. You'll be on the floor after your first pint and after the completion of my first argument. LOL.

P E @ R S O N!! Behave..! you are not talking to your girlfriend here  Big thumbs up


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

LOL! OK, I'll give you that - that was good. LOL.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
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