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Check Out The Pic, Is Really The President Inside?  
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11423 times:


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Photo © Mike Parks



Is really the President flying the AF1, I mean, it is not a dangerous maneuver? If so, why has to be refuelled if that plane has enough range to cross The Pond ?

Thanks


MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11269 times:

If it's going under the callsign "Air Force 1" the President has to be on board. And speaking that the photographer is in the USAF, I'd assume that they'd be aware if it indeed was USAF1 or just the VIP 747 operating under it's other callsign. But, that's just my take on it.

[Edited 2004-10-07 18:36:41]


United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineJetboyTWA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 389 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11261 times:

By the looks of that 747, it is not the aircraft that carries the President. Maybe someone will have more information on what the purpose of that 747 is.

-Ryan


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11215 times:

It's a command and control bird.

User currently offlineKnoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 259 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11194 times:
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Basically it allows the President to have a complete secured network of communication with all the country (USA of course) agencies and armed forces in case of emergency.

I guess it has many more functions but I guess it is top secret...



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2314 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11159 times:

That's the E-4 (aka NEACP - National Emergency Airborne Command Post) As the name implies, it's used for command & control duties in the event of national emergency or attack, and usually (at least in the past) sits alert near wherever the President is located.

In a previous life I flew KC-135s at Grissom AFB, and the E-4 would sit alert there at times. 15 years ago, it was full of gee-wizz stuff, I can only imagine what's in there now!

And as to the safety of in-flight refueling, it's perfectly safe as long as everyone knows what they are doing, but if something goes wrong, it can ruin your entire day.

Moose



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10945 times:

The photographer's comment for that photo (that's the little bit of text just under the picture) reads:

"Refueling the E-4 supporting the President's trip to Europe"

No mention of AF1, VC-25, or the President being on board.


LY744



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10929 times:

My misread before making my initial post. My apologies for that.

[Edited 2004-10-07 20:00:31]


United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10917 times:

Hey

has any one ever see the movie Air Force 1?

They try to refuel the plane and the KC-10 ends up blowing up!!


Well thats just a movie.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlinePortcolumbus From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1614 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

Well thats just a movie.

And a terrible one at that...


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3513 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10441 times:

The color scheme looks very similar to that off KLM, the placement of the different colors is acurate to those of KLM.


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineSFO2SVO From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9813 times:

And why did they need in-flight refueling for the trip to Europe?
747 should be able to make it "on one tank".



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User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13088 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9463 times:

As to why refuling on the flight pictured, probably in case of an emergency (like on 9/11) the aircraft could continue flying a longer distance before having to land or be able to return to the USA or a US military base. There could be also the issue of MTOW and have to take off with less than full tanks.

User currently offlineBostonguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8865 times:

As I recall the only time Air Force One (i.e. with a President aboard) has been refueled in-flight was during President Bush's nonstop flight from Texas to Baghdad last November.

User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8585 times:

If the President is aboard the aircraft then, technically it has to be classified as AirForce 1. The only exception to this rule was in 1973 when President Nixon and a few Secret Service agents quietly boarded a scheduled United flight (I think it was a DC-10) from DC to LA.

In the Tom Clancy thriller "Sum of All Fears" President Fowler (played by James Cromwell) is rushed into an E-4B minutes after a nuclear attack on Baltimore. Although it doesn't mention AF1 by name, the E-4B being an AirForce plane should carry the callsign whenever the president is aboard.

[Edited 2004-10-08 01:04:31]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8500 times:

As I recall the only time Air Force One (i.e. with a President aboard) has been refueled in-flight was during President Bush's nonstop flight from Texas to Baghdad last November.

If I remember correctly the news article said he changed planes at Andrews AFB before continuing to Baghdad.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5386 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8434 times:


As I recall the only time Air Force One (i.e. with a President aboard) has been refueled in-flight was during President Bush's nonstop flight from Texas to Baghdad last November.


Bmacleod is correct - the VC-25s have never done an aerial refueling with the president on board. The flight leg from Andrews to Baghdad was done non-stop without an IFR.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8415 times:

the President is aboard the aircraft then, technically it has to be classified as AirForce 1. The only exception to this rule was in 1973 when President Nixon and a few Secret Service agents quietly boarded a scheduled United flight (I think it was a DC-10) from DC to LA.


Right, because then it would go under Executive 1



United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7806 times:

If the POTUS is on any aircraft, would these be the callsigns?

Navy: Navy One
Marine Corps: Marine One
Air Force: Air Force
Coast Guard: Coast Guard One
civillian: Executive One



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7531 times:

That's not one of the planes used as AF1. That's a support aircraft. The color scheme and fairing on the roof give it away.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineSoBe From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 256 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

As I recall they were/are called "Looking Glass" planes. I had read that During the Cold War there was one airborne over the US 24 hours a day. I don't know if that is still the case.

User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7342 times:

Futureual:

Pretty much, except you forgot Army One.

Additionally, any civil a/c with a member of the President's family onboard gets the callsign Executive One Foxtrot.




United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineMattbna From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

I can't believe no one has posted any of the photos in the database yet...

There are 12 photos of one of the "looking glass" birds currently online including this great shot:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sven De Bevere




Matt



Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
User currently offlineERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

As to the question of why this is getting refueled just to hop the pond...
This plane is to remain airborne at all times (or one of the 4? of them). It is for command and control and is useless to have it sitting on the ground. Someday I'd love to know what the communication capabilities are on this bird, must be some incredible toys.


User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

First off, this is an E-4B NAOC (National Airborne Operations Center) as it is now called. NEACP was discontinued as the mission name in 1996. It is not a VC-25 or a KLM bird! There are 4 of these aircraft total and they are in the 1 ACCS stationed at Offutt AFB (also home to U.S. Strategic Command HQ). The NAOC mission is this... In case of national emergency or destruction of ground command control centers, the aircraft provides a highly survivable, command, control and communications center to direct U.S. forces, execute emergency war orders and coordinate actions by civil authorities. This mission requires one E-4B a/c to be in a certain proximity to the President (I think 1 hr. total but I'm not sure) that is why they are seen sitting alert at AFB's and civilian airports around the world. This is also not a 'looking glass' aircraft. That mission was performed by EC-135 aircraft stationed throughout the CONUS which did have at least one bird airborne 24/7/365 for over 20 years to communicate to the nuclear triad in the event of an emergency. The 24/7/365 mission ended however after the cold war in 91 or 92. They were then periodically airborne and mostly sat on alert. EC-135 aircraft lost the mission in 1998-99 to the Navy E-6A Mercury aircraft that are stationed out of Tinker AFB. Here's a link to the AF data sheet on the E-4B a/c http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=99. As for why this aircraft would need to IFR, 1) this a/c has a very high GTOW with all of the interior equipment that is installed and 2) the pilot's need to IFR to stay proficient (training). A national emergencey could require this a/c to stay airborne for days possibly, so the a/c would require the ability to IFR and the pilot's would need to maintain proficiency at IFR's


User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 25, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3501 times:

BTW, how long does it takes to refuel that plane in the air, or what is the maximum time for such a big plane to be "connected" with another plane in the air ?


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