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RG 777 Vs MD-11. 757-200 Added To RG Network  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Anyone knows why RG dropped the 777 from its route AMS/CDG-GRU/POA and NYC-GRU/GIG? RG reintroduced the older MD-11 on these routes.

On a positive note, RG ordered four 757-200, which will strenghten RG's network in Latin American. The first two 757-200 are already being used on the route EZE-GRU-LIM, and GIG-GRU-CCS. The two other 757-200 will be added early in 2005. RG will be the first airline to use the 757-200 in Latin America. Most certainly this is a reaction to TAM expansion in South America. TAM will start flights GIG/GRU-SCL, GRU-LIM and (under study) GRU-CCS.

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

RG ordered four 757-200


"ordered"...?


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6408 times:

RG will be the first airline to use the 757-200 in Latin America.

Not sure about that...


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+ Aero Continente, briefly.

Regards,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32604 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

Anyone knows why RG dropped the 777 from its route AMS/CDG-GRU/POA and NYC-GRU/GIG? RG reintroduced the older MD-11 on these routes.

They are now flying MIA-GRU-GIG and MAD-GRU-GIG.



a.
User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

RG the first 757 operator in LatAm. Dont make me laugh.


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineLX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

RG the first 757 operator in LatAm. Dont make me laugh
RCS: you know better than that...but try to take the example of LVZXV - There's no need to be nasty about it


User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6234 times:

It is beyond me why any leasing company would set them up with 4 757s, given RG's financial condition.

What happened to the 2 ex-UA 777s they were supposed to be getting?


- DBC


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

DBCooper:

N207UA and N208UA are due next month. Both are -ERs. They will be registered PP-VRE and PP-VRF respectively.

As for the 757s, PP-VTQ and PP-VTR are already flying. If you are asking about costs, well last year RG managed to stem losses by a third (still leaving them at over US$600 million in the red--excluding exisiting debts). Strange things are still happening in the fleet, however. 2 767s have been leased back to Euroatlantic Airways, and RG charters them on demand. Another is for sale. As for the MD-11s, some are coming, so are going. Two very recent ex-Swiss additions, PP-VTF and PP-VTG, have already joined FedEx after less than a year with Varig. Not quite sure why this is. I somewhat doubt that operating and maintaining a mix of GE and PW-powered MD-11s and MD-11ERs is proving very economical. Ditto for the two types of 777s.

Wait and see...

RCS:

Hardiwv has posted some very intelligent and informative posts on his first day. In future correct him the way I did.

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

ZXV - thanks for the update on the 2 777s.

Hardiwv - in addition to GIG-GRU-SCL, it looks like TAM will be adding BSB-POA-EZE as well.

Anyone know why none of the "big 4" carriers in Brasil do not publish timetables - on-line or otherwise?


- DBC


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

LVZXV:

Thanks for the comments  Smile and for the updates on RG 777s and MD-11s. It's amazing how RG changes its aircraft portfolio. Good news that more 777s will be added to RG network.

Indeed, apparently the mix of 777s and MD-11 for intercontinental routes is proving economical, although RG MD-11s are now a bit old. On the route Europe-Brazil RG is the only airline to use this type of aircraft, right?

Thanks for the corrections about RG 757s. I got the information about RG being the first to operate this type of aircraft from Varig's own website...should have double checked! Info also provided on http://www.b757.info/ Thanks for the remarks!

MAH4546:

Thanks for the info": RG is using 777s on its route MAD-GRU-GIG and MIA-GRU. However, the 777 on the route MIA-GRU is used 5 x week, while the MD-11 on the remaining two days.

DBCooper:

AR already operates the route POA-EZE. TAM will start operating this route codeshared with RG, the route will be operated by RG with the 737. AR also operates direct flights FLN-EZE. Airlines are also considering to operate the route NVT-EZE, probably during the summer only. NVT is the newest international airport in Brazil - will be granted this status on 18 October!

About timetable of the four big in Brazil, I recommend the following website:

http://www.aeronews.com.br/

Click on "rotas" and select the route you wish. RG publishes its timetable on its own website (www.varig.com.br).



[Edited 2004-10-10 09:52:33]

User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

Hardiwv:

You're welcome! I'm not sure you could classify RG's MD-11s as "old". Even the FAA definition of "Ageing" is 14 years old, whereas RG's oldest MD-11s date from 1992, and their youngest from 1997. Considering that RG haven't acquired a factory new aircraft since 2001, all they are really going to find these days are used aircraft of early-to-mid-'90s build. AR is in the same boat.
If you want "old", cross the border into Argentina, where you find aircraft of '70s vintage, including some of AR's 747s...

RG are the only airline bridging Brazil and Europe with the MD-11. AZ switched to the B777 last year, and LX flew to EZE for the last time with an MD-11 in late-March this year. Now they serve GRU with the A340-300 and offer onward connections with TAM.

On the Aeropuertos Argentina 2000 website this week, I noticed several TAM flights to/from FLN, meaning they must have added FLN-EZE recently. In the summer months, every Argentine carrier operates charter flights to the resort. As for POA-EZE, RG are already on the route, though the flight starts/ends in GIG or GRU.

I'm sure RG know best. If their mixed fleet policy suits them and saves money, so be it. I was just sceptical about that being the case...

Regards,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

Hardiwv:
Thanks for the aeronews link. Not really a timetable, though, more just a CPA lookup. I am looking for a PDF-type timetable.

The link to timetable on RG's site returns an error. I'll try again later.

TAM FLN-EZE ops are non-sked/charter. Look for TAM to start BSB-POA-EZE with a 2-class A-320 by early November...


- DBC


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

ZXV:

ok that the "old" concept for RG MD-11 maybe questionable. But if you look into the aircraft used by TAM and the other European airlines (e.g. AF, AZ, LX, IB, TP, BA, KL) on the Europe-Brazil route you will conclude that RG's MD-11 are indeed old  Smile

About RG mixed configuration policy, I'm always sceptical whether anything makes economic sense in RG! It must first suit the Ruben Berta Foundation....
(one of RG 777 even pays homage to the Foundation...)

Hardiwv


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6011 times:

Hardiwv:

TAM had the money to order such a vast quantity of Airbuses direct from rhe manufacturer. RG, like most airlines, goes through leasing firms, and ain't got the money for what's brand-new.

All the airlines you mention have generally young fleets, but not to say they had some ancient aircraft until very recently. I remember IB retiring a 32-year-old 747-200 (EC-GAG) last year, and they are still flying a handful of 24-year-old examples. Age isn't the question. Most of RG's MD-11s have two-thirds of their lives remaining. As it is, the next MD-11 due for RG (HB-IWA) will become the oldest MD-11 in the fleet, dating from 1991.

So sorry, I disagree about the age thing. Maybe it's because I'm Argentine, a place you could consider "The Land Of The Old"!  Smile

Regards,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

ZXV:

ok... Smile

I am a fan of 777s...


User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5833 times:

Talking about RG network, I just downloaded the newest StarAlliance timetable and noticed that RG is not flyig to CPT anymore.

Does anybody know when they stopped this flight?

When they started it, I had the impression it was a mistake and wouldn't last long.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5708 times:

EMB195ER:

Good point! Indeed, RG is not operating CPT anymore. The CPT flight was actually part of RG flight GIG-GRU-JNB-CPT/CPT-JNB-GRU-GIG.

Considering that RG has a codeshare with SA, it would not make sense to continue the leg JNB-CPT, as RG could simply use its cooperation with SA to fly passengers on this leg.

The actually background info about the CPT operation, is that a Brazilian tour agency negotiated with RG the CPT flight (the JNB-CPT leg was only operational 1 x week with the 767). RG ceased the JNB-CPT leg last September.

I think another possible reason why RG started to operate CPT, was to impose a direct competition with MH, which is operating CPT-EZE (as part of their twice weekly flight KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE). MH is the only other connection between Africa/Asia apart from the SA-RG flights.

Another interesting point:

Some time ago RG decised to extend their flight GRU-CDG and added the leg CDG-AMS, which has been relatively successful mainly because of cargo. The flight CDG-AMS is almost empty (less than 20% load factor, but the belly of the aircraft is almost always full). Since late last year, in order to improve the load factor between CDG-AMS, RG started operating this short leg also as a LCC under the name BasiqAir (you find tickets for each leg for EUR 36! - but the flight keeps the RG code). You can notice this as RG operates in AMS at Terminal G, where usually only charter flights operate (which also helps in keeping handling/airport fee lower). It was an intelligent and market-oriented decision. RG operates AMS-CDG-GRU-POA daily (the CDG stop-over is quick and passengers onward to GRU remain on board).


User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 966 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

Hardiwv,

Actually, RG is the first Brazilian airline to operate the B757, not Latin American, as pointed out by other fellow posters...

With this delivery, Varig also "closed the family" and is part of the group of airlines who operated all Boeing models.(707 to 777)

Recently we heard a rumour that a third 777 would also join the fleet (F-GSPH from Air France), but I did not know that AF was retiring 777-200ERs already..

Saludos

Renato



"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

Renato,

Thanks again for the remarks! Amazing your info that RG operated ALL the Boeing family. Note than in 1996 RG ceased to operate the 747 full pax. No doubt that RG has been a reliable customer of Boeing! The only aircraft which are not Boeing in the RG fleet are the Embraers (not sure how many still under operation), and they will be dropped from RG fleet next year! So RG whole fleet will be Boeing, right?

Are you sure RG will get an extra 777 from AF?

If you read the post above by LVZXV you will note that RG will actualy add two 777s from UA.

This is the post by LVZXV:

N207UA and N208UA are due next month. Both are -ERs. They will be registered PP-VRE and PP-VRF respectively.

Hardi


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

AF retiring a 777? News to me too!

Hardiwv:

The 8 EMB-145ERs are actually operated by RG subsidiary Rio Sul, but I think they wear RG colours. Besides them, it's true, RG operate an ALL Boeing fleet if you count the MD-11. AR has the 2nd largest Boeing fleet in the region, but if they take delivery of all 32 B737-300/500s and 17 B747-400s on order, they'll become THE largest.

Regards,

ZXV

P.S. For your impressive and up-to-date knowledge of Brazilian aviation, welcome to my R/U list!  Smile




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

I can confirm from looking out the window at CGH that the RJs fly in RioSul/VARIG colors!


- DBC


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5552 times:

BTW, does anybody knows the status of the RG 777 flight to SCL?
I was in Pudahuel in early sept. and RG brought a 763 instead. it was just that day or RG stopped the 777 to Chile?

***

ZXV: 17 B 744s???? are you sure they are that much? amd counting of "all boeings operators", Lan is only lacking for the 777, but here we go!

Regards )( Arcano



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Don't count on those 2 specific 777s joining the fleet - I see both are up for auction at a foreclosure sale being held in Boston on 10/29 (ref. 10/7 Aircraft Insider)


- DBC


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

Arcano:

I'm as surprised as you--to me it's another "Linha Aérea Mais Grande do Mundo" pipe dream. Initially, the plan was for 45 B737-300/500s and 4 B747-400s, but, según Marsans, that has since been changed to 32 of the former and 17 of the latter. Each of the 4 subsidiaries are due to receive at least one, but with the exception of Chile, is it really poosible to fill a 747 flying from ASU, MVD or VVI to anywhere? In any case, that still leaves a dozen for AR, and even if they ditch the A340-200s (which in my view proivde them with greater flexibility), I still see them have over capacity problems. We'll have to wait and see.

The first 3 of the 744s are ex-Canadian/Air Canada, but the ancestry of the other 14 set to join over the next 4 years has not been publicly announced. For commonality's sake, they would have to be GE-powered, so that would rule out BA, SQ and UA and many other obvious choices as candidates.

I may be slightly cynical about AR procurements, but that's only because I'm always right!  Big grin

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineLan_Fanatic From Chile, joined Sep 2001, 1071 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Arcano: There is no more 777 service from GRU to SCL. It was switched to MD-11. BTW, I went to SCL two sundays ago as my father was going to Europe with RG, and I saw a Varig 737 (800?) with only one winglet. What happened to the other? Nobody knows.

25 Post contains images S.p.a.s. : Hardi, Indeed Varig Group E145s are operated with Varig style colours, but with RioSul titles. RioSul had 16 E145s, but it is cheaper to operate impor
26 Post contains images Hardiwv : LVZXV: Thanks! Thanks as well for the update on RG's fleet of Embraers. Note that RG's subsidiaries Rio Sul and Nordeste are now integrated into RG so
27 Post contains links and images Hardiwv : A pic in HAM of the tailor-made Airbus ACJ which will be delivered to Brazil's President Office: View Large View MediumPhoto © Gerd Beilfuss ...t
28 JJMNGR : TAM flight BSB/POA/EZE/POA/BSB will be operated by its own with A320. No old, dirty near defuct RG B733....God bless us!!!
29 S.p.a.s. : JJMNGR, As always a stupid remark from you hun, mate? You can't resist to make an attack to Varig hun? [procura um psicologo cara, voce deve ter algum
30 Post contains images LVZXV : Hardiwv: RG operated a total of 13 747s--5 -200s, -5 -300s and 3 -400s--from 1985-2000. 2 of the -300s were Combis. On a tangeant... Like I said, I fi
31 S.p.a.s. : ZXV, RG operated a total of 13 747s--5 -200s, -5 -300s and 3 -400s--from 1985-2000. 2 of the -300s were Combis. Just another small correction, RG oper
32 JJMNGR : S.p.a.s, Inferioridade??? Hahaha com relação à VARIG??? só pode ser uma grande piada. O ser humano se sente inferior com coisas grandes e que vale
33 Erikwilliam : Hello fellas, I´m back from 3 months off and what do I see?!?JJMNGR kicking Varig´s butt.ehehe S.P.A.S:Actually JJ is right, unfortunately Varig is
34 Post contains images Hardiwv : LVZXV: Thanks for the wonderful pics and good memories! I think RGL is actually in Tierra del Fuego, right? Sorry for my poor geography about Argentin
35 EMB195ER : Erikwilliam, I did like the idea of having a beer!!! Hugs, EMB195ER
36 Post contains images Hardiwv : I am envious of you, guys! I will miss that one.... Enjoy your BRAHMA!!!!!!!!! Hardi
37 Post contains images Marambio : I think RGL is actually in Tierra del Fuego, right? Sorry for my poor geography about Argentina (maybe Tierra del Fuego is part of Patagonia?), but an
38 Post contains images LVZXV : Hardiwv: I forgive you! You'd be surprised how few Argentines seem capable of locating TF on a map, and some actually ask me if they have TV down ther
39 Post contains images Hardiwv : Marambio: LVZXV: Thanks for the excellent and detailed information! I certainly have to consider going back to southern Argentina on holidays ! Your e
40 LVZXV : Hardi: To the best of my knowledge, in the days of the 747-200 on the transpolar route, the aircraft had a range issue on the outbound/westbound segme
41 Hardiwv : LVZXV: Again, very convincing information! Thanks a lot for all your insights and explanations! Hardi
42 Post contains images Hardiwv : Here are the very first pics of RG new 757s already operating on the route EZE-GRU-LIM, and GIG-GRU-CCS.
43 Argentina : RG B757 is not scheduled for LIM any more from November 1st. Instead, the routes will be: REC-SSA-GIG-EZE-GIG-SSA-REC Daily GIG-GRU-CCS-AUA-CCS-GRU-GI
44 Hardiwv : Argentina, Thanks for the info. So RG will use a mix of aircraft to CCS, BOG and EZE, covering these cities with the 757, MD11 and 767, depending on d
45 RCS763av : Nice!!!! So the 757s are coming to BOG!!! Those 73G really didnt fit in the 7-hour flight.
46 Hardiwv : RCS763av: Yes, BOG will be served daily by RG with 757 and 767. Hardi
47 Post contains images MIAspotter : Don't Forget Avensa/Servivensa of Venezuela also operated a couple of 757s long time ago, there are pictures of them on the database....just too lazy
48 RCS763av : 767???? I know there are flights to MAO also....do you have the complete schedule?
49 Hardiwv : BOG-MAO: 1 x week, with the 737; BOG-GRU: 3 x week, with the 767; BOG-GRU: 3 x week, with the 757; Hardi
50 RCS763av : Thanx a lot. Loads must be good because from a 738 to a 757 and 763 theres a long way....
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